[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[uncletiggy]

I may not have accurately expressed what i meant about having meren over nightmare affecting intent. I intended to convey that being able to zenith for meren meant i no longer needed intent as a tutor for nightmare in place of gsz #4. I actually hadn't considered the synergy of intent adding counters to meren, foddering was considered . I ended up playing with nightmare today as none of my local retailers stock commander product singles for some reason? I wish I had the space to play more. :(

[rubblekill]

I feel like I'm coming close to what I feel like it's perfection, balance wise, for my play style. I have removed 1 SFM and 1 Tusk and put back 2 Rhino..The king is back, more pimp than ever like it's shown in this picture

http://i.imgur.com/IymEcg1.jpg

(Me living the dream with my good old friend )

All jokes aside, I am currently testing the SFM package (4 cards total) with 2 rhino (3 would be too much imo), because the trample is very relevant. We lose a little bit against terminus, but for the 5 cmc slot I play Garruk in the side anyway so it's not a problem because game 1 against miracles is already impossible in my experience.
I really feel like my build is very balanced and stable, I encourage you to test it.

E: It seems to me that a lot of people are too cute here and are headed straight towards magical christmas land. Anything less than 4 GSZ is wrong in this deck, not only because it's always one of our best cards, but because against decks like storm or gy dependant decks we want to maximise the chances of putting in play our lock pieces with the starting 7 cards (ooze, drs, teeg).
Going all in solely for Meren (Starved Rusalka, Karador etc) it's being just cute in my opinion. Agains stp.dec Meren is the first one to go to the sideboard.
I'm gonna get hated for this, but I'm gonna say it: P. Truths is a bad card in legacy. Bad. And we, the control deck, cannot afford to lose life and durdle with a sorcery that does nothing to the board or the opponent's hand; sign in blood and night whispers may very well be better cards, p. truths is the example of what hype can do to deck building. I am prepared for the hate already.
Finally, Sun Titan. I admit that I have not tested it already, but in theory he seems like he costs too much and is a 6 mana spell that eats swords to plowshares. He has a nice effect, but for that cost I'd like a little bit more of resiliency (6cmc planeswalkers?); I'll test it anyway to form a definite opinion on the matter.

[Warden]

I feel like I'm coming close to what I feel like it's perfection, balance wise, for my play style. I have removed 1 SFM and 1 Tusk and put back 2 Rhino..The king is back, more pimp than ever like it's shown in this picture

http://i.imgur.com/IymEcg1.jpg

(Me living the dream with my good old friend )

All jokes aside, I am currently testing the SFM package (4 cards total) with 2 rhino (3 would be too much imo), because the trample is very relevant. We lose a little bit against terminus, but for the 5 cmc slot I play Garruk in the side anyway so it's not a problem because game 1 against miracles is already impossible in my experience.

That's a hell of a board state (and the +6 mana of any color per turn). I wish I could live the dream like that.
For your list, I'm assuming it's http://i.imgur.com/zdCzucS.jpg minus the 1 SFM and 1 Tusk as you said. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. But I'd likely trade out something in favor of a 3rd Rhino or bring back the 1 Thragtusk.

[rubblekill]

That's a hell of a board state (and the +6 mana of any color per turn). I wish I could live the dream like that.
For your list, I'm assuming it's http://i.imgur.com/zdCzucS.jpg minus the 1 SFM and 1 Tusk as you said. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. But I'd likely trade out something in favor of a 3rd Rhino or bring back the 1 Thragtusk.

Yes it is that list, and yes you wish you could live a dream like that! Against reanimator..
About the 3rd rhino: the problem is the space in the main deck. I love my current removal package, and also my creature package. You could remove Elspeth, but she is here because of the online metagame. I think it's safe to say that outside of the online version I'd play -1 Elspeth +1Tusk.

[aicnelavo]

I'm gonna get hated for this, but I'm gonna say it: P. Truths is a bad card in legacy.

Im gonna have to agree with you here. Testing with truths showed me, more often than not, that three cards (with no card selection) is rarely worth the sorcery speed and mana invested. Not to mention the life. I run livingwish as my selection, and meren + friends mainboard as advantage, and frankly I havent missed painful truths. The sorcery speed of wish hurts eough.

[Tom4ik]

I guess agree to disagree because I have found that truths has been an amazing card so far. Yes it is not a 4 of, nor does it end the game just because it is cast but drawing 3 is better than you are giving it credit for. You talk about adding sylvan library, a 2 mana sorcery that does nothing the turn it comes into play, costs more life per card, and falls to a card everybody here is talking about making a 3-4 of (deed).

I get why living wish and diabolic intent are good. Tutoring is a great effect in a deck with as much variable power level in cards. That is why I played 3 dig through time when it was legal in Bugfit. That being said, if you have not played games where you run out of resources with this deck you have not played enough games. Unless I am against combo I would rather draw truths than living wish against shardless or grixis. Cards will get discarded, countered, removed and most CA in nic fit is tied into Deed or therapy.

My opinion is that having a CA engine that is not based off the graveyard and that uses a resource (life) that most nicfit decks are already packing ways of gaining (huntmaster, Tusk, rhino, bskull, drs, equips) is a great way to improve the consistency of the deck.

[aicnelavo]

When testing ive always ran it as a 2 of in replacement of both library and intent. Do you find it still worth the slot as a 1of?

[gth842s]

Just spitballing here, but Caleb Durward used to run Skeletal Scrying in his main - does the instant speed, and ability to set X>3, warrant trying the card out again? I'm inclined to say yes, the flexibility of playing this on your opponent's end step to force a counter and then being able to untap and slam your game winner of choice (Meren, Grave Titan, Rhino, whatever) seems great.

Thoughts?

[Echelon]

As a 2-off Truths is fine. During the lategame I'm almost always happy to see it. Drawing 3 when your hand is empty can be quite a big deal, and using it in the lategame means you'll have mana left to cast more stuff.

As for doing cute stuff: Ofcourse I do it, Meren gives us some more design space. Why not try our hand at some cute stuff? For all we know it's actually good. Sure, Starved Rusalka sucked, but Karador really is amazing. As for StP.dec - for some reason I don't see it all that much at my local gamestore and also they usually run 3 or 4 max (and like to waste them on stuff like DRS, which for this deck is mostly just cute, silly white mages).

You guys keep working with your equipment (assorted Swords on tramplers does sound pretty cool), I'll keep on exploring the deep end and enjoy the drowning that follows, lol. If Tasigur doesn't work out, I'll switch on to Multani's Acolyte.

[uncletiggy]

Aw go full circle 4 years and go deranged hermit as an echo value sac creature :)

[Echelon]

I'm mostly looking for a nice and easy value/CA engine to pair with my current crush (lol).

Yavimaya Elder was looking promising until I saw he only fetches basics and by the time I get the engine going, I'm probably fresh out of basics. Especially if I'm dropping another basic Forest for a second Phyrexian Tower.

[Chatto]

Just spitballing here, but Caleb Durward used to run Skeletal Scrying in his main - does the instant speed, and ability to set X>3, warrant trying the card out again? I'm inclined to say yes, the flexibility of playing this on your opponent's end step to force a counter and then being able to untap and slam your game winner of choice (Meren, Grave Titan, Rhino, whatever) seems great.

Thoughts?

I'm testing PT as a two of, and it is good. Not insane, but CA is CA.

I forgot about Skeletal Scrying! It can be better, will have try it again

[rubblekill]

What about this?



Junk fit superfriends?

[Chatto]

Why not Diabolic Intent?

[rubblekill]

Why not Diabolic Intent?

For one more mana we can reliably tutor without having to have a dude in play to sacrifice. I don't even know if a PW heavy build is doable, I just linked the picture to hear your opinions
And in a PW heavy build intent is a bad card.

[Chatto]

For one more mana we can reliably tutor without having to have a dude in play to sacrifice. I don't even know if a PW heavy build is doable, I just linked the picture to hear your opinions
And in a PW heavy build intent is a bad card.

Fair enough.

[aicnelavo]

Interesting card. It makes me think of Mc darby veteran walker list.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...n-Walkers.html

For vet walkers what does white bring to the table (besides this new tutor) that can make up for jace, bs, and fow?
All in all It's an interesting card for a deck that I haven't seen much support for.

[Arianrhod]

What about this?



Junk fit superfriends?

Seems worse than just drawing a million cards with Painful Truths, if that's your jam.

[Echelon]

Or paying another mana for a Diabolic Tutor...

[uncletiggy]

I may end up chickening out on stoneforge fit this sat and playing my good stuff list:

4 vet
2 drs
1 scooze
1 qpm
1 teeg
1 ewitness
4 rhino
1 sigarda
1 tusk

3 top
4 zenith
2 truths

4 therapy
4 decay
2 path
3 deed
1 pulse

22 lands

2 bayou
2 scrub
2 savanna
1 badlands
3 forest
2 swamp
2 plains
1 tower
1 stronghold
3 catacombs
3 marsh flats

13g 13b 12w 7r

2 ts
2 games
2 needle
2 cannonist
1 grip
1 teeg
1 militant
1 rip
1 hymm
1 e plague
1 garruk ph