Keep on indulging man, with no regrets.Originally Posted by Echelon
I have an unhealthy attachment to the card and love to indulge in my fetish.
I agree wholeheartedly.
STE seems a wasted GSZ to me. I'll stick to the 4/4 DRS/Explorer at the moment. Agreed on DL Dromoka. Slime is clunky imo, and we have a lot of removal already (I even play vindicate for the online planeswalkers, but it can also kill lands).
Hahaha, now it's my time to laugh IRL
I'll admit that Extirpate is for budget reasons. The singleton Garruk is dedicated for miracles and random control decks. Trust me, he generates some serious CA and/or threats.
How do you feel about the inclusion of a SFM package?
On the 4*PtE topic. 4 is overkill imho. We have 3-4 decays already, often the uncounterability is better than the 1 mana cost. Mentor for example needs to be killed ASAP, and decay guarantees that while path makes counterbalance relevant (when otherwise it is a dead card against us basically). Maybe in lands.dec heavy metas that amount of paths is the correct option, otherwise it is just too much spot removal for my tastes.
@arianrhod and everyone else who has played with wastes,:
Just how nuts is warping wail?
It seems like a pretty good answer to storm plus other helpful utilities. I like the idea of throwing in a wastes and perhaps a painland. I run a junk wishfit build with less creatures and heavy board control. (Usually wish for the nut vreature vs MU or a non zenithable bomb latte game) i could really use some help vs fast combo (dont we all).
Ps. I only get playtesting at my lgs
First off: Hells yeah!
Second: There is no such thing as a wasted GSZ, that's what makes it so good. If STE is exactly what you need that turn to deploy the rest of your plan, go for it. After that the GSZ'll show up again eventually anyway.
Third: When running 4 PtE, one does not run AD and I can say from experience in that context (which you tend to skip over for some reason. As I said before "Meh, uncounterability" is not adressing the opportunity cost of the thing) it is not overkill. Furthermore, PtE isn't counterable by Daze as long as you keep the same amount of mana up as you need for casting AD, yet it allows you to cast say a Cabal Therapy afterwards b/c your opponent did not play Daze and you still have mana left. When adressing FoW - why wouldn't we be happy to have a 1 CMC spell countered at the cost of 2 of our opponents' cards?
The example of Mentor is cornercase, especially when combined with CB. Miracle pilots only run so many 3-drops (and not every Miracles build runs Mentor) so you still have Deed to answer it. Besides, when running PtE you can always run AD in your SB and switch those out when need be.
But to get to the core of this: If there is so much Miracles in your meta wouldn't you be better of piloting something else rather than to keep complaining about it..? Repeating "Yes, but Terminus and StP" or other such drivel doesn't make your problem go away.
Or to end on a somewhat constructive note: If you face so much Miracles in your meta, you might want to run 4 AD in your MB.
I'm personally on 4 Decay 2 path, mainly because the versatility of Decay seems required to me. The ability to take out equipment, Sylvans and hate enchantments/artifacts trumps STPs pros.
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Pernicious Deed answers those things as well. And a SB Qasali Pridemage does wonders. In the cases you mention it's a GSZ-able AD that's relatively easy to recur with Meren. And both provide reach AD doesn't (ie. Batterskull itself and stuff like Wurmcoil Engine).
Seriously, Decay doesn't answer that much stuff you otherwise couldn't. Your opponent SFMs for an equipment, on your turn you cast Cabal Therapy. And equipment is dead on the board without a creature to carry it, Sylvan Library sucks when mirrored with a sweeper and random enchantments/artifacts (the most annoying of which cost >3 mana, by the way) can be answered/shut down entirely with a GSZ-able engine. If need be we can ignore CotV/Trinisphere entirely. The same goes for Counterbalance, by the way. Just be clever about it.
Why do you think Nic Fit does so well against any fair deck..? Legacy thinks being able to kill stuff as long as it doesn't cost more than 3 or has less than 3 toughness is sufficient, hence our ability to roll over a nice part of the meta. Piloting Nic Fit should learn one that this just isn't true so don't fall for that trap.
We needn't fear the stuff that's smaller than what we do, we need to fear that what's bigger than we do (in which case AD does shit).
Well a turn 2/3 liliana screws us over harshly. Even a later liliana is a problem to be honest, and decay answers that. And the "fetch the arbor to blow the opponent up" doesn't work with a decent opponent most of the times. The ability to blow random stuff that can't be hit by deed or paths outclasses the full on 4paths build, maybe I'm wrong but this is just my experience with the deck.
I don't have space for qasali in the deck since I'd rather main deck teeg instead. Sideboard is basically only for storm and miracles
Define "random stuff that can't be answered with Deed/PtE". Make a list.
Then make a list of things Deed/PtE do answer that AD doesn't.
I'm honestly curious to see how they pair up.
Liliana is one. And not random at all. And don't forget the uncounterability, deed is counterable (and stiflable..)
And I do run path but as a 2 of. Plus 3 AD. Seems the most balanced to me; I'm all about balance and having different kinds of removal, going with 4 of one kind and 0 of the other is not balanced. You only have an edge vs me in the lands mu, unless I'm forgetting something because I'm writing this while I'm at work.
The qasali argument is irrelevant to me because I'm not willing to waste a slot on him in the side
One card in an already good match up is not a list and uncounterability never answered a single threat.
Here is a list of cards that Abrupt Decay can hit. A lot of them are cards you want to have removed ASAP. I don't think it's super relevant if Deed hits them, since you usually need some redundancy in these effects and... you want them ASAP. On the other hand Echelon tends to play Diabolic Intent (in plural even, right?) which adds virtual copies of deed.
Counterbalance
Chalice of the Void
Liliana of the Veil
Sylvan Library
Aether Vial
Sulfuric Vortex
Pithing Needle (esp on deed)
Sensei's Divining Top (actually)
Equipment
Grindstone
Food Chain
Crucible of Worlds
Animate Dead
Null Rod
Suppression Field
Enchantress's Presence
Solitary Confinement
Thopter Foundry
Ensnaring Bridge
Grafdigger's Cage
Candelabra of Tawnos
And occasionally:
Blood Moon
Bitterblossom
Expedition Map
Rest in Peace
Trinisphere (early trini stops [flashbacked] therapies [+veteran])
With that said I think path seems very good too, I'm thinking of trying something like 3 decay + 1/2 paths in the main deck and 2/1 paths in the sideboard. Path seems to me to be one of the best cards in nic fit in general right now, when choosing which flavor of nic fit to play, since it makes lands beatable. That may be all in my head and may also be related to a high number of local Depths. Also I'm thinking the more Paths I play the more I want Painful Truths in the deck. But that is another discussion..
Edit:
On another topic I played reanimator fit last week. It was super fun. It didn't go particularly well, 1-3. Two losses were to infect and featured much discard and little removal and reanimation as I recalled. Also lost a tight and grindy game vs bant thopter control, I was about to win the second game when we went to time. Won against a grixis reanimator brew with young pyro transformational sideboard. Changes I've made to Arianrhod's list include md decays, glenn elendra over Iona (hard castable and with a similar lockdown effect vs combo). I'm adding darkblast to the sb for an entombable silver bullit vs infect, death and taxes, pyromancer etc. Also may try back to basics to hopefully do damage to bug, grixis, cloudpost, lands etc. I'll also add a Pithing Needle; not playing SDT makes this card extra good, also good vs stage, nexus, deathrite, jace. I'll provide more info if I get somewhere with it.
Last edited by pettdan; 01-18-2016 at 04:41 PM.
@rubblekill: I firmly believe in 4 rhinos but I can understand cutting one. I do understand budget reasons but if you need surgicals, by all means, let me know. I can trade you them on mtgo or mail you some. All for the greater good. (Echo: the greater good) 4/4 vet/drs is a lot when you are on the 3 deeds done dirt cheap plan. I think 4/2 is right and vindicate is indeed a house to be wrecking them with.
As for SFM package, I put it together on mtgo but haven't tested it at all so I assume nothing but wish for everything.
Oh thanks dude, very kind of you! But don't worry I still have stuff like Thrun I could sell, but I have to decide if I definitely don't need at all.
If you're back on modo welcome back, for me you are an important tester because you understand the meta I play everyday. And your deck lists usually look balanced.
I'm having great success with 4 vets 2 towers, the deck becomes even more consistent; drs is ramp and a win con: I feel i am doing great when I land a t1 shaman. I understand the possibility of a nonbo, but I think It can be avoided by planning the next few turns ahead. I'm still testing it but this build seems very, very solid to me: mana base wise and ramp wise. Still testing though.
In my SFM build I play 2 SFM 1 sofi and 1bskull. To be honest I am thinking of replacing bs with sofaf. Let us know your developments!
E: keep Meren in in the non stp non Karakas match ups! She is devastating vs bug strategies. Hell I do even keep her in against storm (in reality because I have better things to cut before her, not because I want to play her on purpose to buy back a decayed teeg, but her ability has come up in the past especially after having shredded the opponents hand with therapies and duresses).
Yes I do! I run 2 at all times. 5 Deeds/6 PtE (or rather 3 Deeds, 4 PtE & 2 of any)/10 Siege Rhinoes for me!
I even used to run 4 in my crazy ass Summoner's Egg build, but those days are gone.
@barney (rubble): I so need to get a 2nd Phyrexian Tower! Dammit!
I've been trying 2 Phyrexian Towers (Korean, of course) and I've been liking the consistency of getting Explorers off a tiny bit more often. I miss Stronghold, sure, but we weren't using it a ton, anyway.
-Matt
Rub it in, why don't you? Lol.
Mate 2 towers Are awesome!1
By the way am I missing some kind of joke? I'm no barney, my name is Francis!
Matt, you are a pimp mother f'er always.
4vet 2pt gives us a fairly consistent boost, and I recommend it in basic heavy mana bases like mine.
E: apparently I was missing a joke. I know barney rubble, although I used to hate that cartoon.
You're killing me!
Just Google Barney Rubble. You're not telling me you don't know who that is, lol.
I ran two phy towers in my first ever outing with nic fit, and was very happy with them until a judge came over and asked me why I had two in play...
All my lists have two, highly recommend it, especially when you have SFMs lying around
Well I definitely feel good about your opinion of me, thank you.
I will look into a second tower but im pretty firm on 4vet/2drs as for SFM I am still working on it. jitte is just so strong that I want to play 2 deed and jam a jitte. sofi is definitely the correct sword even though im a fan of sobm (but bruh, wolves)
I will update with a list when I get a chance.
I'm new here, and looking to play a new Legacy deck (I played manaless dredge at GP Tacoma) as my current play group is trying to expand more into Legacy. This looks like my style, and I have a fair amount of the cards I'd need for the deck. After reading a lot of the posts on this thread, I've noticed that pretty much all the lists run 61 cards. Why does Nic Fit run 61 cards? Is it because we can due to the sheer number of tutor effects?
I'm currently looking at the BUG with Siege Rhinos list, which I think I'll be proxying and playing with my playgroup. We're doing a full-proxy (sorry, playtest card) tournament this weekend and I'll post the results of that. Should be pretty hard, I see that ANT is a bad match and there's at least one ANT player among us.
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