@ Bardo: I have a couple of questions. I'm sorry if you've already answered them. 1st, can you post your current sideboard for me? I am looking to change my sideboard, If anyone else runs Grunt in the sideboard, or has one they swear by, the only thing I have to keep in is my PIMP Armageddon's.
My second question is, do you ever wish you ran 2 Enforcers? If you did what would change in your list? I took out a Counterspell for my 2nd one, and I never wish it was anything else. That card wins me games. Nobody likes to see him 2x on the table. Thanx for your time!
AoD
Now rocking a job at Off the Wall Games!!
~Team Necro~
I'm not sure if you want other people's boards or just Dan's, but here is mine from TML1:Originally Posted by Angel of Despair
2x Naturalize
2x Pithing Needle (1 Main)
2x Hydroblast
2x BEB
3x Armageddon
3x Jotun Grunt
1x Mystic Enforcer (1 Main)
Thanks. Yes, I was looking for other great boards. Do you play EE at all? Do you put the 2nd Enforcer in a lot?
Now rocking a job at Off the Wall Games!!
~Team Necro~
I play 1 MD Explosives, as does Dan, and I don't actually side in Enforcer #2 very often. He comes in vs. Decks sporting mostly black removal, when I need another fat dude (reanimator, etc.) and when he trumps their threats (the mirror splash red).
My board differs, as follows, for a meta which has seen a little more Affinity lately.
1x Pimping Needle (2 Main)
2x Hydroblast
2x BEB (Beta)
3x Armageddon (Currently Portal 1 but looking for P2)
3x Jotun Grunt (1 is Foil...send me your foil Grunts)
1x Mystic Enforcer (1 Main)
3x Null Rod
I'm currently running 2 Disenchants main with the extra Needle. I like the Disenchants because they pump my Dryads (yes, I've given up on Werebears...tooo much yard hate) but I'm going to give EE a try one of these days in the Disenchant spot.
When other people do not assert themselves, they may still have something to be proud of, something that they believe is unrivalled, but it is just that they have not got the same vulgarity of throwing their weight about and imposing themselves and their beliefs on other people. - Dunduzu Kalui Chisiza
If you think a topic is dumb, don't add to it. Pretty simple. - Bardo
In my sideboard, I'm alreadying running 4 Hydroblast and another EE--not including the Tivadar's Crusades and Naturalizes. So, I agree that siding into additional removal is correct.4 Swords may be enough, but SBing more removal is never a bad strategy since this is a creature format.
Which segues nicely into...
Sideboard
4 Hydroblast
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Armageddon
2 Tivadar's Crusade
2 Naturalize
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mystic Enforcer
(I posted the rest of my list in an SCG thread earlier.)
As for Grunt, I had to drop one of my own pimp 'Geddons (from Portal 2K) as well and the Worships to make room for them. As much as I love Worship, it was always sort of a win-more game and it's never won me a game that I wasn't already going to win. But I've considered running one or two Worship(s) maindeck just for the raw "fuck you" factor. But the 4cc casting cost... (Which, again, segues nicely into...)
The short answer is "no."My second question is, do you ever wish you ran 2 Enforcers? If you did what would change in your list? I took out a Counterspell for my 2nd one, and I never wish it was anything else. That card wins me games. Nobody likes to see him 2x on the table.
I've played this deck a lot and, over time, noticed that I was moving-to-the-bottom/shuffling-away Enforcer far more often than I expected. That got me from three to two Enforcers, and then from two to one.
I've considered dropping my lone maindeck one on occasion, but he's a nice surprise when he shows up. But generally, in this deck, I'm wary of running any card that I don't want to see in my opening hand--and 4cc cards are something I never want to see (I also dropped FoF from my build long ago for the same reason). And Enforcer is something you never want to see early, unless you're playing against Black aggro or some such.
But, to answer your question, I'm not sure what I'd drop to make room for a second Enforcer. Maybe replace a Meddling Mage with the Enforcer slot in the sideboard? Otherwise, I'd tinker with my 2 Pithing Needle / 1 Engineered Explosives slots and see what I can drop there. Maybe 1 / 1 + Enforcer? Again, I'd need to test for a bit and see what worked. But I don't think that's necessary. 1 Enforcer is plenty.
I find it interesting how close our SBs (and maindecks) are, considering that we've never worked on the deck together. Goblins has all but dissapeared near me, so it isn't a factor anymore - which is why I can get away with running no direct hate in the board for it. Basically, take my board, add Goblins into the metagame, and you get Bardo's board.
Thanks guys, My sideboard was mainly against Black anything. You also got me thinking about putting that 2nd enforcer into my sideboard. I played maindeck Worship for a time, but I took it out completely. It seemed a bit overkill. It also got really annoying against Angel Stompy...
Now rocking a job at Off the Wall Games!!
~Team Necro~
While were on the topic of sideboards this is what I went with today:
3 Naturalize
2 Geddon
3 BeB
2 Echoing Truth
2 Worship
1 Enforcer
1 Stifle
It was a completely new place to play so I had no idea what to expect really, but I wounp up playing my freinds landstillish thing and drawing out, then lost to Phage of all things in FEB. The moral of the story: I really wish I had some form of grave hate. Next time I'm going for Grunts, I feel like they would have won me a few of the games that I lost. The format seems to have so many grave based decks that I can't see it being bad.
I think that next time I would go with:
2 Stifle
1 Enforcer
2 Geddon
2 Worship
2 Naturalize
2 BeB
3 Jotun Grunt
1 EE
Also I ran Stifle in my maindeck x2 instead of EE of Needle. Worked out not too badly but thinking back I wish I had Needles instead, they would have saved me. Lets just say I wound up Stifling the lifegain on an Exalted since it was one of those 5 turn time extensions lol.
About Enforcer, I found that he was fairly important in winning against this meta, but I still would never run more than one. I saw him every game with all my cantrips (I ran 16), and I wouldnt want to see him in my opening hand, ever.
Well, don't know if it helps you, but here's my current board. You prob. should know I'm preparing for a tourney with tons of thresh, and almost no Geddon-wishable decks.
3 Hydroblast
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Tivadar's Crusade
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Engineered Explosives (0 mb, 2 enforcers)
1 Pithing Needle (got only one, too bad)
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Tivadar's Crusade
3 Nantuko Monastery
3 Stifle
3 Naturalize
Yup... no Mage... at all. I didnt think I need it, since I'm in such a Goblin and UGr Thresh heavy meta. Monasteries are fucking amazing. Control died in my meta and I figured there are better cards for the sb.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Nantuko monastery has been a house for me. When I built this deck I went straight to maindecking 2 monasteries and they are amazing. Fitting them in required fewer basic lands (which is ok, because I rarely see wasteland) and an upping of land count from 17 to 18. There are downsides, for sure, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has tried maindeck monasteries. Worst comes to worst I shuffle them away with fetches after a brainstorm/serum visions/portent, or use them to cast enforcers or hard-cast force of will. At best, they own face without possibility of counters or WoG.
For the sideboard discussion: I use tormod's crypt insead of grunt. Crypt is weaker in the mirror, but better against random graveyard-based decks like survival, reanimator, loam-engines, and tog (where quick graveyard removal is more important than a 4/4 creaure).
The Monasteries are very good again a ton of decks.
The mirror, Angel Stompy, and much more I cant seem to remember...
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
If you don't play maindeck Mage, what kind of spells do you play in those slots?
How about replacing the Mages with Serendib Efreet? I ran a small tournament this weekend, and got 2nd loosing only to affinity. The only match where I used the mages was against Iggy. I usually shuffled the mages back in the deck during the other matches and was not really impressed by them. What do you think?
Mage isnt doing so hot in this metagame. It's only good against 3 decks, and those decks happen to be Board Control (call Swords and counter all WoG effects), IGGy, and Solidarity.
As for what I replaced Mage with... Portent. Dont laugh, I find everything I need from cantrips; Threats, Answers, and more Cantrips.
Usually I see Mage as a metagame slot. If you tell me what kind of meta you have, there so much more better cards for this slot. Jotun Grunt, Galina's Knight, Serendib Efreet, Stifle, EE, and a bunch more.
IMO, think the reason for the White splash is the Sideboard. Swords is strong removal, but the more important sides of White has always been the Sideboard and at times, Mage.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
My meta only has a few combo decks where Mage really shines. So I want to find something that fits in the Mage slot without lowering my creature count. I will test Efreet, and maybe Galina's Knight or Monastery. Don't you ever think that your creature count is too low without the Mages? Or do the extra cantrips get you your critters?
Mage is a walking Counterspell.
If you're going to replace a walking counterspell, why not do it with a Flying Mana Leak. That way you don't hurt your combo matchup up too much.
I'm of course talking about Spiketail Broodling. It makes all your opponents key spells cost two more mana, all while beating for two. What do you guys think?
This deck doesnt need more counters. Just topdecking a counterspell against a couple of guys on the board doesnt answer them. If you were to replace Mage, make sure it benefits every angle of your deck, and that's card qualitywise. Theres, that's something Spiketail Broodling cant do, improve your card quality.
@Negator: The thing about more cantrips is that, it allows you to decide what's good in the current situation. Creatures are bad sometimes, Removal is bad sometimes, and Counters are bad sometimes. It's a matter off what you need that makes cantrips shine. I never really felt creature lite. But if you must, add a 3rd Enforcer, or manybe throw in some Monasteries, as they double as lands as well.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
I'd say if you want to replace a card that is an sich OK, but just not strong enough in this metagame, don't replace it with a similar (but weaker) card. In my opinion, the argument against m.mage is just as valid against the inclusion of Spiketail Drakeling. Besides that, drake can be played around and leaves play after it's effect, in contrast to the mage.
edit:@ Anti: I'm a slow poster, but at least we agree
I've never really had problems with drawing mage, since at the least they are a slightly more annoying grizzly bears (and a creature that's not affected by lack of threshold).
But I was actually wondering how azorius guildmage would work in this deck. It's even easier on the mana than mage, counters activated abilities (which pithing needle is for, I know) and taps creatures at end of turn (if you don't need that mana to counter something) to allow your creatures to attack freely into a crowded board.
The more I mill over it, the less I like it, but it's something to think about.
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