So I played a few 2mans last night. Ran over Grixis delver in an easy 2(at some point it was like b8tin it)
then I played against shardless. I went t1 therapy, turn 2 gsz for vet and sac the vet(FYQ, FYP). He conceded the match. Feels good, man.
Then I played against what I can only describe as a sweet UB deck. He went t1 island ponder. t2 ancient tomb skill borrower revealing griselbrand. He drew 7 and SnT in emrakul. Once I finished picking my brain up off the ground, I sideboarded and somehow become this weird artifact deck after. t1 duress, t2 chalice 1, t3 snt wurmcoil. forced my rhino.
Anyways, I have changes im going to make to my abzan list because it seems loose atm(playing 1 sfm/1 batterskull mb and 1 sofi sb)
No offense but I am more interested in skill borrower.dec than another abzan list haha. That list sounds pretty sweet with the transformational SB (which has always been quirk of some decks that I love).
This thread is now like a page past the comment but someone mentioned running probe. I recommend probe but only with access to blue. Probe makes turning therapy against combo very very dangerous because you no longer have to take high percentage plays but get to be much more targeted. It also does help upping the consistency. Does seem worse when you only have the option of paying life to cast it though.
I'll try the +1 fetch -1 Forest config and I'll cobble between 13 and 14B.Originally Posted by Echelon
You're missing the point, but that's fine.
@Ralf: In each and every manabase you present you can switch a Forest for another fetchland, upping the initial black count +1 so @10 mountains you could reach 14/14/15 G/B/R. For 11 mountains you can get to 14/13/16 G/B/R.
In case you didn't notice, I'm perfectly fine with having 14 initial green sources. I think it's more import to aim for at least 14 across the board rather than >14 green and then whatever you can get.
In case you didn't notice, I said the 14G config is perfectly viable, mathematically wise.
The issue I am having is that unlike other Nic Fit version, Scape is very specific.
In Junk, you might be able to dig your way out with an opening hand that does not contain any green source but from experience, in Scape, this is rather a suicide. We don't have a lot of T1 play, save Veteran or discard.
Should I have met too much variance or what, but I do like the extra bit of insurance by playing 15G.
Anyway, this is just a personal "feeling" and it should not prevent anyone from playing the best theorical mana base:
14G 14B 15R (not counting valakut)
3 Taiga
4 Badland
3 Bayou
1 Stomping ground
4 Verdant catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
or
15G 13B 15R (not counting valakut)
3/4 Taiga
3 Badland
3 Bayou
1/2 Stomping ground
4 Verdant catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
For the 10 or 11 mountain debate, I still need to gather some data.
But after 100+ games, I didn't face the issue, once...
I have killed with a Scape for 12, 15 or 24 & 30 a good bunch of games, but I've never met the issue where I could not Scape at all.
Since the Dryad Arbor and Diabolic Intent are going - that makes Meren a lot less appealing. However there aren't that many other 4-drops that actually look relevant (resistant to bolt/decay, give some amount of value). Possible choices:
Huntmaster - Already have one. Might be good anyway though.
Mina and Denn, Wildborn - actually look alright. Can save lands from Wasteland (heh) and give me some Valakut lategame.
Thrun - much better with equipment or Wolf-run. I don't think I have the space for either of those, though.
Giant Solifuge - Great against control. Okay against all the combo decks. Not much in the way of synergy, though. Not great against anyone with creatures.
Chameleon Colossus - also really wants Wolf-Run.
I might try out Mina and Denn instead of Meren, with Primeval Titan in the Diabolic Intent slot.
Mina and Denn. Most of the time is was a worst version of Thrun. Never used the additional landdrop, because at the point where you can use 4/5 mana to get it on the floor your probably not holding multiple lands or arent getting multiple's soon. Also never used the activited ability. But then again, i never tried it in Scape.
It might be strong next to Courser (and SDT), but for what you want it to do Oracle of Mul Daya is better at it (except that one dies to everything).
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Eternal Witness
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Read the Bones
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Warping Wail
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
3 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Eye of Ugin
//sb
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Krosan Grip
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Disfigure
1 Nether Void
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Trinisphere
2 Thoughtseize
For reference, this is where we were at the last time.
The matches:
2-0 vs BUG Nic Fit
2-0 vs Shardless BUG
2-1 vs RUG Delver
The one game I dropped vs RUG was game 1 -- I mulled to 5, and he had t1 blindflip Delver into 3x Stifle + FoW + 2x Wasteland.
...K.
I crushed him fairly effortlessly games 2 and 3, although g3 was a little tricky just by virtue of his having planeswalkers out of nowhere (Jace VP and Dack Fayden). I also had ye olde 1-lander with Carpet of Flowers, which put me into 2x Vet and a Matter Reshaper, so we ended up in this obnoxious stall of my "punish you if you kill this" board vs his Goyf and planeswalkers.
One of the more interesting games on the day was g1 vs Shardless. I kept a probably bad idea / punishing hand of multiple colorless sources (Cloud, Glimmer, Phyrexian Tower), a Sensei's Top, and green cards including a Vet. He made a couple Shardless Agents and was beating me down fairly anemically while I sat there spinning Top every turn looking for a green source. By the time I got said green source, I had 2x Vet and a Therapy in hand, along with the Tower that was in play. When I finally got the green to start things off, I went NUCLEAR. It was actually a lot of fun, although I'm lucky he never saw a real clock.
I also got to win g2 by taking infinite turns with Phyrexian Tower and Eye of Ugin :D
So, what worked?
-) Matter Reshaper. The card is as good as advertised. I never went nuts with it with Nightmare or any of that garbage, but just as a 3/2 for 3 with upside he was great. He got me an uncounterable Pernicious Deed via a Sensei's Top in g2 vs RUG, which felt great. Most of the rest of the time he was either a land drop or a card in hand, which is fine.
-) Nissa. Nissa is bae. She actually feels even more important in this list because she can get you to GG off of one green source -- as in, her creature side isn't approaching useless like it is in some other versions (looking at you, Abzan rhinos). Due to the importance of the land ramping in this version, similar to Scape, she flips super easily and super quickly.
-) Eternal Witness. This is very important. E.Wit rarely makes the list of notables because, while solid, it never feels like it's doing anything broken. The difference here is that this version, courtesy of the cloudpost engine, makes GOBS of mana. This deck is built to loop Emrakul for infinite turns. It doesn't care about adding 3 to the cost of anything. In g3 vs RUG I was one mana short from being able to Zenith E.Wit, re-play and crack Pernicious Deed, and then cast Kozilek. The fact that I was /only/ one mana short of that play is retarded.
-) Kozilek's cast trigger. I don't even care about the rest of him....the rest of him probably goes down yonder in the "what didn't work" part. His cast trigger was insane for me -- I always drew at least 4-5 cards, getting the nut draw 7 once.
-) Read the Bones felt great. It wasn't quite as good as Painful Truths, perhaps (I'm still undecided on the scry 2 vs draw 1), but for a 2-color deck, Bones did the job just fine. I had to board them out vs RUG, which made my deck feel a lot worse...and even vs Shardless I was still running out of cards because of the raw amount of mana I was making. But, we'll get more into that later.
What didn't work?
-) Warping Wail. As much as I hate to say this. I will note that I was frequently happy to have Wail in my deck, but I rarely drew them. I got to exile a Vet when my Nic Fit opponent r1 was mana screwed with 5-drops in hand, and I got to counter a Hymn to Tourach vs Shardless. That was about it. I was sitting there at the time actually thinking to myself that it would be great to have a Wail in my hand -- Zenith from Nic Fit, Visions from Shardless, exile an unflipped Delver or Jace VP from RUG, etc....but I didn't have them at the time. Whenever I drew it, it was always the wrong time. Realistically, Wail might move to the sideboard in accordance with a realization that I'll get into in the next section.
-) Kozilek's body. A 12/12 menace is fine and all, but the real irritation with Kozilek was that he didn't shuffle back into my deck. Sure, he can be reanimated with Nightmare, but like, Nic Fit Therapied him out g1 and I was like, well, that sucks. Just lost my draw 7. His trigger and existence is still powerful enough that it justifies his presence in the deck, but I was very annoyed that he didn't shuffle back in like Big Mommy.
-) Maindeck Deluges, actually. Some of this might be matchup-driven -- I didn't play vs Grixis Delver, DnT, or Elves, obviously, which are the three things that the maindeck Deluges would especially shine vs. But even then, they felt like they were kind of unnecessary answers.
-) Nightmare. Something I've never actually said before, but Nightmare did underperform for me. I never got to hook it up to Matter Reshaper, and the biggest thing I threatened was to loop Vet -> Primeval Titan vs RUG, which is admittedly pretty scary. The real problem with Nightmare, I feel, is that this deck is akin to Scapewish (which you'll hear me say a lot about soon). It has a sufficiently big enough/powerful enough/consistent enough endgame that it doesn't care about Nightmare. Nightmare is /The End/ for things like Abzan because looping Rhinos is the closest that version gets to going broken. Scapewish and this version both go absolutely busted. They don't need or want Nightmare to get in the way.
Special category: sideboard?
Unfortunately, I didn't really sideboard much for this event. I ran with the prescribed sideboard, but I only brought in 2 cards vs Nic Fit, 2 cards vs Shardless, and 6 vs RUG (which, in retrospect, Pulse was probably incorrect). Disfigures overperformed vs RUG, and Carpet was as great as it always is. Didn't play against any combo on the night, so I can't say how good the other stuff is. I don't think that what I have in the board is bad, but I also don't know if it's good. Awkward place to be.
Okay, so where now?
First of all, let's compare this deck to Scapewish real quick.
-) They both have insane endgames involving 1-card combos.
-) Said endgame is extremely consistent and some degree of inevitable.
-) They both want to ramp rapidly and both take advantage of card draw better than most decks as a result.
-) They both have stringent manabase concerns.
-) They both have a lot more lifegain built in than most versions, as a way to buy time to get to the endgame.
Fundamentally, colorless and scapewish are both doing roughly the same thing. They're just different flavors of it....Scape goes a little faster, but colorless goes way bigger and isn't THAT much slower.
The Eternal Witness point in the "what worked" bit above is probably the keystone here. I think that this deck wants to join Scapewish as a "wish" deck. I want to experiment with Living Wish for this deck. Wishes increase the threat density and stability of the deck at the costs of both sideboard options and speed: you're paying 2 more for anything that you wish for, which tends to make wishes not as exciting. If Eternal Witness is busted in this deck because of the raw amount of mana it produces, then it logically follows that Living Wish is also going to be very good here. The biggest problem with a Living Wishboard is that most of the truly great targets are in white. If there aren't enough targets in BGC, then I'll find another option...I'm not going to add a color just to satisfy Wish.
Cards of note for wishboard:
Llanowar Wastes is the best land for the deck if you can only have 1 land, due to its tri-land nature.
Eye of Ugin is fragile maindeck, and while getting it with Titan is easy access, it does open you up to Wasteland. I think that one still needs to exist maindeck, but it's an option to add a 2nd sideboard.
Eldrazi of some kind. Ulamog is a good universal answer while also being a tentacular spectacular, but might be worse than sideboarding Kozilek 2.0 and maindecking a different monster.
Wurmcoil and Primeval Titan are both reasonable midgame trumps. Having a second Primeval in the board actually sounds pretty great, since that gives you an effective 8 Primeval Titans instead of 4.
Having access to a sac outlet is usually good -- Viscera Seer is probably the best option for this since it costs one mana and has a relevant payoff.
Thought-Knot Seer is good vs combo, and something we were sideboarding anyway.
Eternal Witness and Reclamation Sage are both good options, as are Bojuka Bog and Karakas.
This leaves two primary holes that need filled: a mini/full sweeper, and a faster combo option...something that's not 4 mana.
Looking through the sweeper options, there basically aren't any. The only wishable sweepers are a million mana, most of it black, which is unrealistic. Kagemaro, First to Suffer is probably the best option, which is 8 mana, including triple black, for a -X/-X = # cards in hand. Nowhere near good enough. Tabernacle is realistically the only option, and I'm actually not that high on Tabby, because the deck that you really want to hit with this is Elves, and they have Gaea's Cradle, which completely counters Tabby.
Here's a sample thought:
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Disfigure
2 Thoughtseize
2 Trinisphere
1 Nether Void
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Primeval Titan
1 Viscera Seer
This operates under the assumption that Kozilek gets moved to the board with a different Old God going maindeck, as well possibly a maindeck RecSage (or just not caring because other ways of dealing with that stuff). There's only 6 targets here, but realistically 4 of them are wishable vs every matchup (T-KS, E.Wit, Primeval, and Kozi). Seer and Bog are very specific and narrow, they won't come up much, but will be great when they do. Of note: there's no room in this sideboard for Warping Wail, and there's no room for any sweepers. This means that Elves and Death and Taxes will probably be problems. There's also only five dedicated combo cards, which is light...although the ones that are present are VERY strong.
Worth noting that Scape also tends to only have ~5ish cards for combo as well, although the speed of its endgame factors in. At the same time, this version has a much less anemic beatdown than Scape does...Matter Reshapers are serious clocks to combo decks, especially if there is a 3-ball in play. It's possible that the Disfigures could be 2 more T-KS, which would allow for 2 to be boarded in with 1 still open to Wish for. Wishing for Bog is relevant vs Storm, though, as well. Not sure.
As far as the maindeck is concerned, this is where I'm looking for now:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Read the Bones
4 Living Wish
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
3 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Eye of Ugin
Notes on maindeck changes:
4 Living Wish because as noted, I think the deck wants to be a lot more proactive and a lot less reactive. The first sketch tried to be too reactive -- too many counterspells, spot removal, and durdling. It's possible the Wishes end up being too far on the other end of the spectrum, and they get cut to allow for a modest maindeck removal suite. If they do, Kozilek likely returns to the maindeck over the Ulamog.
Oracle of Mul Daya allows for Zenith to grab card advantage. I'm not certain about this, but I want to at least test the option.
Wurmcoil joins the deck because there were two specific occasions on the night where I wanted to Eye of Ugin for something in the 6-8 mana range. I didn't have enough to get Kozilek, but I wanted to get something higher impact than a Matter Reshaper on turn 6ish. I also put in a 2nd Thragtusk in hopes that I never have to board out Read the Bones again. The draw engine was actually very important to the deck due to the rate at which it chews through its cards. Having to remove that because of an aggressive matchup made the rest of my deck feel worse, and I want to hedge against that.
Final Thoughts
Obviously, adding the Wishes is a pretty huge change. There's a lot of things in both the maindeck and the sideboard that are affected by this, and I'm unsure of a lot of card choices as a result at the moment. After a couple days (and probably some input from everyone here), I should have a much clearer idea of what's going on here. All I really know with certainty right now is that there is 100% a very competitive deck here. I hold to that Scapewish was probably my best brew in the competitive sense, and even though I ended up getting rid of it because I preferred to play other versions more than it, I can't really argue with the success its had. I strongly believe that there is a Scapewish-level deck here. The trick is just finding the right card selections for it.
Wishes or not is probably the biggest question right now, followed by the chain of: If Wishes, then how much removal vs If Not Wishes, then how much removal, as tempered by how much removal is actually necessary.
As far as matchups go, I can't really speak to that yet as it's way too early in this version's life to know much. I'm sure Elves is going to be miserable with the changes I just made -- before them, Elves was probably actually fine to positive. Elves was one of the matchups that Warping Wail and Toxic Deluge maindeck were best against. Storm is probably about the same as other matchups (highly unfavorable but winnable g1, 50/50-60/40 g2). Sneak/Show gains a little % just by virtue of having space monsters in the deck to blow out their Show and Tells, but then also loses a lot of % because there's no ability to splash red for Slaughter Games. DnT probably revolves completely around Pernicious Deed vs Revoker, as usual. At the same time, DnT has to worry about our very real beatdown plan and their anemic clock vs our endgame. Cataclysm is probably ungodly terrifying, even more than usual.
RUG is highly positive, as always; Shardless BUG seemed perfectly fine; Miracles has to be a shitstomp in our favor -- I can't see that going well for them at all, since we have 12post's endgame paired with Nic Fit's sweepers and midgame to deal with the Mentors. Lands is probably a nightmare, as always, as is Reanimator, I'm sure. Grixis Delver was something like 65-35 our favor with the Wails and Deluges, will need to retest with changes. We're probably still highly disadvantaged vs actual 12-post, since Cloudposts count ALL Loci, and they play 4 Clouds + Maps + more Titans to search them up vs our 3 Clouds + 1 Titan/3 Zenith/4 Wish. If we untap with the first Cloudpost, there's a chance we can race them to the space age. I haven't seen a BUG Delver in forever, despite Source's DTB assuring me that it still exists. That matchup has always been kind of a crapshoot because it depends on which half of their deck they draw. I don't know that this has really changed too much, but I do know that BUG Delver CANNOT beat a resolved Wurmcoil Engine, so we do have that going for us. ObBaloth is good vs their discard and Lilianas, too.
That's my brief thoughts on matchups for this thing. I will note, in closing, that a lot of these matchups will likely improve as the deck gets refined and tuned.
So yeah. Two hours of typing later, there's my thoughts on the colorless version.
If you scrolled past all of that, I hate you, but here's the TL;DR: Gobs of potential, currently unrefined.
Thanks for the writeup! crazy detailed and love the idea of this list. nice work!
@Arianrhod
Some debate about chooses:
Viscera Seer - I think it's garbage compared to Crop Rotation which gives you access to functional lands which one is Phyrexian Tower.
1 Oracle of Mul Daya - anything which ramp you for one more land is mostly enough to cast Titan, it's a waste of slot, but try it yourself.
2 Obstinate Baloth - not sure why Baloths are MD - it's useful only vs Discard, you don't have enough clock to end game enough fast vs Combo, I would rather more focus on ramp which would give you speed.
2 Thragtusk - 1 is fairly enough I would rather bump Titans count which ramps, open way to Emrakul loop you and give life if needed.
3 Read the Bones - that's interesting but I found I have no time to pure card advantage spells, most time you use all your mana to ramp, or removal - but it's interesting approach. Anyway not running 4 Green Sun's Zenith is wrong.
4 Living Wish - that's very interesting one it opens a lot of options, but before you jam 4 Wishes propose SB - it's really tiny.
I think with more focusing on ending game bombs (Titans) like titans is better then some narrow creatures which mostly get removal. I also get surprised you didnt fit Abrupt Decay which is very good answer vs early threads.
I agree to compare Nic feat 8Post to Scapeshift version, both decks has similar aims, but one of them works on lands only and it's uncounterable.
The Viscera Seer is to Wish for, not anything on its own rights at all. It's just a way to make Living Wish into a sac outlet for Veteran Explorer.
The Baloths and Thrags are to help stabilize the midgame. It might be that just flat ignoring the midgame is more correct -- just racing into Primeval/Wurmcoil/space monsters...but I've been disappointed by that approach in the past just due to situations where your ramp is either disrupted or you just don't hit any of it. I still want to be able to play a fair...well, "nic fit fair," game of magic while simultaneously slowing building to crescendo.
Oracle, as noted, is experimental and may very well get removed.
4th Zenith is probably correct as the deck moved more green than it originally was. The very first draft, which had the maindeck Thought-Knots, didn't really want 4 Zeniths...but things have moved around enough now that it probably does. Good call on that. Read the Bones was actually fantastic for me -- I always had plenty of time / mana for it...might be a playstyle difference, or just because the deck is built differently / more midrange.
The Decays will doubtless go in (probably as a 2-of, with 1 Pulse and 1 something else) if the Living Wishes prove to not be worth it, which, without access to white, they very well might not be good enough. I do want to at least try them before declaring that to be the case, though, because if they DO work out, the upside is huge, I think. That's why the Wishes are the main question that needs asked right now...their presence, or lack thereof, determines a lot of other factors.
For a Living Wish sweeper target:
Massacre Wurm maybe? I know -2/-2 isn't amazing, but he is pretty strong and he does hilarious things against Empty the Warrens. He's the same mana as Kagemaro and less awkward if you don't have anything in hand.
Also, Crypt Rats? They're pretty B intensive though.
That's a good one (Rats). Minister of Pain is likely the best, actually.
@Arianrhod: You so want a Meren in that list. Combined with Matter Reshaper and Eternal Witness it can provide you with so much CA and additional mana (looping Explorers). Just run one instead of a Baloth (or Thragtusk). CA engines you can Zenith for are never bad. When doing that you might also want to include a Diabolic Intent.
Building further on that: Eye of Ugin doesn't make any mana, so it doesn't help you cast anything. If you want to find your big bombs (b/c I don't think you'll be paying 7 mana to find a Matter Reshaper any time soon) you could just as well run Fierce Empath (just throw out Nissa). It allows you to find your Wurmcoil Engine, can't be Wastelanded and cracks you up when your opponent deliberately wastes spotremoval on it. That would also allow you to run another Llanowar Wastes, bringing you up to 14 initial green sources (and an additional B an C).
Maybe you can also swap a Bayou for another Llanowar Wastes.
And I'd run Courser of Kruphix over Oracle (you don't play enough lands to want Exploration after you've reached the 4-6 mana necessary to cast/GSZ through Daze Oracle, meaning Courser does the same job for less mana whilst also gaining you some life and having 4 toughness instead of 2).
Last edited by Echelon; 01-27-2016 at 04:22 AM.
I played Junk for a longtime before switching over (living wish/SFM/rector versions of some degree). Those versions seemed to play more of a mid-range deck or combo (for Thune/Feeder).
This version (P. Rhinos) feels much more controlling and slaps your opponent upside the head with the rhinos. My elves opponent just looked miserable after a while and just decided to move on to next game.
I was one life at least 3 different times on Sunday (twice against RUG which is scary). It feels like we are the not-miracles miracles deck. That being said......I think I want a bonfire in the deck.
I think I want one more threat at 5 or above. Stormbreath fits this well but may strain the manabase a little bit more.
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Note from yesterday testing vs Combo Lands R/G:
Actually best answer which is wasteproof (longterm solution, Karakas dies from wasteland or it's tapped by port), Krosan Grip proof, and punishing proof is own Thespian's Stage (running 4 crop rotation SB).
Answering which own token vs his one, is probably best to stall this route, they can't have more tokens, they can't kill it, so it's gives enough time to win. It's not permanent, Combo lands player still have an out - Karakas if they don't side it out. Most time enough to assamble Titan win.
@Arianrhod looking for feedback from Wish build, also I agree that's you more focused on midrange fair game instead bomb wins, probably best will be mix, deck which can fast unfair win, and also can play as solid midrange :-).
To those of you who play SFM: in the end how many do tou play? Which equipment?
Currently I'm running 2, because 1 is too few and I can't find space for three. I have to agree with the guy that said that the number of sfms should be lower than the number of equipments, we are no stoneblade deck but a swordsman rhino deck. Playing with batterskull (which replaces tusk) sofi AND a third equipment. I am trying to figure out if the third equipment is really necessary, currently playing sobam over sofaf because pro black is less relevant and sobam is a nightmare for control decks, pooping wolves is also nice. Sofaf is also too slow for storm so I don't wanna play it only for that mu. Your final impressions?
Last edited by rubblekill; 01-27-2016 at 05:28 AM.
What about Jitte? It's cheap, and wins games against creature matchups pretty much on its own.
We have plenty of removal already, and jitte it's more likely to die to deed (while other equipments aren't). Plus it needs to connect to bring value, while swords give an immediate boost AND protection. And I don't have any free slots left.
I don't get the appeal of SFM and equipment for Nic Fit in its entirety. You can't GSZ for SFM and your standard equipment demands just as much mana as GSZ for Rhino (and to improve your case, I'm ignoring the casting of SFM which would up the mana consumption to 7) while non of your equipments can compete with Rhino or you spend 3 turns to cast SFM, drop your equipment and equip it which is also 3 turns of not killing your opponent.
Furthermore, equipment in itself does not pose a threat. I can't count the number of times where I was piloting Elves! and chumpblocked my opponents' only creature when he sent it in wielding a Jitte. Sure, I lost some critters after combat but after that the Jitte just sat on the board with noone to carry it for several turns in a row. The same holds true for every other equipment sans Batterskull (which is even more mana intensive and is worse in combat then Siege Rhino).
A single example such as the elves mu doesn't demonstrate anything mate. I have yet to decide if I like the sfm better, I want this to be clear, but it really seems ingenuous to bash the build with the "mana consumption" point. Sfm is here to support rhino, not replace it, and with all the mana we have we can just cast swords from our hand; let's not forget that she eats removal like a champ, removal otherwise directed towards drs (bolt) or rhino and meren (stp). AND she gives us something proactive we can decide to do on turn 2 if we don't have the vet+ct interaction available.
This build gives us more utility and opens up new branches of decisions we can take (is this even grammatically correct?); more than anything gives inevitability: countless times I have managed to "get there" with a late game veteran/squire/Drs carrying a piece of equipment, after all the big guys have been killed/countered/discarded etc. With an equipment in play every top decked little guy becomes potentially a win con.
We DONT necessarily have to think of sfm as our "new plan", but as a tool that's beneficial to our already existing one (rhino).
Not to mention that any equipment on the field transforms any squirrel into a threat that has to be dealt with.
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