[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ralf]

If I may...

Dromoka will likely be played in a Junk build featuring LOW rhino or 0 rhino at all.

Sigarda will be played in both. In a rhino centered build, she will likely be your top of the curve.

However, in a non rhino centered build, you might end up willing something bigger than Sigarda, just because your life gain ability will be much lower. I've traded Sigarda against a Gurmag a non 0 amount of time to stay alive against Grixis, to be honest.

Yeah...shit happens !

[Ricardio]

If I may...

Dromoka will likely be played in a Junk build featuring LOW rhino or 0 rhino at all.

Sigarda will be played in both. In a rhino centered build, she will likely be your top of the curve.

However, in a non rhino centered build, you might end up willing something bigger than Sigarda, just because your life gain ability will be much lower. I've traded Sigarda against a Gurmag a non 0 amount of time to stay alive against Grixis, to be honest.

Yeah...shit happens !

Zero Rhino build of abzan. What year is it? That's not a real thing.

[helvetios]

Okay, so I've got a list I'm trying out, and I would like to know what you think about it. It's quite similar to a list that rubblekill postet:

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of clan nel toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of herons
1 Armada Wurm/Dragonlord Dromoka (Still undecided, will test both)

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Path to exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicous deed
2 Abzan Charm
1 Painful Truths
1 Sensei's Divining top
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB:
3 Duress
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Slaughter Games

First: The meta consists of somer Delver-Variants, miracles, Lands, Storm, Elves, Shardless Bug, some Stoneblade Variants, and maybe sneak and show or omnitell.

I'm a little unsure about how to split Tops/Sylvan library/draw spells.

As for the sideboard: I don't know if Carpet of flowers or Choke is better in in that meta, or if I could stick with both.

I'm thankful for any Input!
Greetings!

[Ricardio]

Okay, so I've got a list I'm trying out, and I would like to know what you think about it. It's quite similar to a list that rubblekill postet:

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of clan nel toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of herons
1 Armada Wurm/Dragonlord Dromoka (Still undecided, will test both)

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Path to exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicous deed
2 Abzan Charm
1 Painful Truths
1 Sensei's Divining top
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

SB:
3 Duress
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Slaughter Games

First: The meta consists of somer Delver-Variants, miracles, Lands, Storm, Elves, Shardless Bug, some Stoneblade Variants, and maybe sneak and show or omnitell.

I'm a little unsure about how to split Tops/Sylvan library/draw spells.

As for the sideboard: I don't know if Carpet of flowers or Choke is better in in that meta, or if I could stick with both.

I'm thankful for any Input!
Greetings!

Im not a huge fan of 6 cmc in the abzan build, same with dryad arbor. you will want more painful truths and in that meta, play 4 decay. No karakas? Otherwise looks solid.

[Bobmans]

Im not a huge fan of 6 cmc in the abzan build, same with dryad arbor. you will want more painful truths and in that meta, play 4 decay. No karakas? Otherwise looks solid.

What's your thought on Liliana or other walkers? Edit, in Rhino Abbondanza that is.

[Tom4ik]

I second the high cmc. You have rhinos. your goal is just slam those. You dont want to get stuck with hands where you have tons of high costs.

I wouldnt play arbor. The only real upside is for a therapy flashback and that isnt worth the slot.

I dont like abzan charm. I think that card is garbage. Its just mediocre. 3 mana removal? no thanks. for the same cost truths gets you an extra card which is worth it. People say instant speed is important but it plays out differently. Without a lot of instant speed plays keep it up means you are just hoping to have timing benefits which dont come up a ton. This is a tap out control deck.

I understand library but would choose a second top over it. That may be more personal taste.

In the SB if you want the extraction effect play surgical. The 0 mana cost is better than split second. The matchups where you bring it in (namely reanimator and storm) you want to be able to play a turn 1 play of therapy or drs with the surgical up.

Thoughtseize is better than duress. This used to be relevant against sneak and show. I dont think the 2 life is worth the loss of utility.

I have never been a fan of carpet. We are already favored against the delver decks and dont need much help (esp if you up the decays) and against miracles I cut all my ramp as that is just a control vs control matchup and you want pure gas.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

[Ralf]

Zero Rhino build of abzan. What year is it? That's not a real thing.

For example here.

Bob, you might also be interested !

[rubblekill]

1 I second the high cmc. You have rhinos. your goal is just slam those. You dont want to get stuck with hands where you have tons of high costs.

2 I wouldnt play arbor. The only real upside is for a therapy flashback and that isnt worth the slot.

3 I dont like abzan charm. I think that card is garbage. Its just mediocre. 3 mana removal? no thanks. for the same cost truths gets you an extra card which is worth it. People say instant speed is important but it plays out differently. Without a lot of instant speed plays keep it up means you are just hoping to have timing benefits which dont come up a ton. This is a tap out control deck.

4 I understand library but would choose a second top over it. That may be more personal taste.

5 In the SB if you want the extraction effect play surgical. The 0 mana cost is better than split second. The matchups where you bring it in (namely reanimator and storm) you want to be able to play a turn 1 play of therapy or drs with the surgical up.

6 Thoughtseize is better than duress. This used to be relevant against sneak and show. I dont think the 2 life is worth the loss of utility.

7 I have never been a fan of carpet. We are already favored against the delver decks and dont need much help (esp if you up the decays) and against miracles I cut all my ramp as that is just a control vs control matchup and you want pure gas.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Every piece of criticism is welcome.

1 I agree, I have tested higher cmc cards and they were too clunky. Rhino changed the face of this deck.

2 I disagree here: the only instance it is a bad card is if it's in the opener. Otherwise he gives decent value, not only for flashbacks but for surprise blocks/attacks.

3 Fair enough, I didn't say I like it or that's a good card. I consider it not as a removal spell (we have plenty of that) but an instant draw 2, that can do something else if need be. And I love to tap out for meren or even better for rhino, not for a do-nothing-to-the-board 3 mana sorcery. I hate PTruth too much.

4 3 top is a must for me

5 extirpate is only there for budget reasons..

6 You might be right on this.

7 I use carpet to replace veterans in the blue control match ups. When you play a fatty or a PW on turn 3, you basically force the opponent to have a response or die. I think it comes down to preference, I see what you are saying and pure gas might be better against other control decks. I'll test without carpet just to form a stronger opinion on the matter.

[Bobmans]

For example here.

Bob, you might also be interested !

21 Lands? How that turn out?
1 Vet and 4 DRS? That is the exact reverse as i did. Your curve on overall seems a little bit lower tho.
It does run Lily, but 3 seems a lot? Or are 2 to few?

[Ralf]

6 You might be right on this. Vs S&S we can duress the enablers and get the same result tho.

I have died playing "duress" because the hand revealed 2 S&T or 2 Sneak and 1 steak...
If you can, play TS !

[helvetios]

Thanks for the replies!

So you would suggest
-1 Dryad arbor
-1 "six-drop"
-2 Abzan Charm

What could come in for those? maybe like this:
+1 Abrupt decay
+1 painful truths
+1 path to exile
+1 Top

What i liked about abzan charm is the versatility. sure, most times it's a weaker painful truths, but it can be removal in a pinch. Especially because it hits marit lage. I don't know if that's worth it though.

The duresses will gradually be replaced by Thoughtseizes, i just don't see that little downside to be extremely relevant right now.

I'm unsure about the extraction effect, because surgical can be dazed.

I can see the point against carpet, maybe pithing needle instead?

As for karakas, i don't want to spend that much money on a one-off card that's matchup dependent. At least not right now.

[Ricardio]

For example here.

Bob, you might also be interested !

BLASPHEMY! Also, aren't you a character from Ed, Edd n Eddie? Ralf, the Foreign guy.

[Ralf]

21 Lands? How that turn out?
1 Vet and 4 DRS? That is the exact reverse as i did. Your curve on overall seems a little bit lower tho.
It does run Lily, but 3 seems a lot? Or are 2 to few?

The grind is real.

I have no more mana problem than any other Nic Fit deck.

This deck is losing "a bit" against fair deck to max "out" against unfair G1.

Liliana is weaker than in Jund Fit but powerful nonetheless.

Painful is really powerful as you tend to play your entire hand quicker as your mana curve is lower than in a standard Nic Fit build.

Equipped Rhino/Sigarda is usually game.

[Bobmans]

I have died playing "duress" because the hand revealed 2 S&T or 2 Sneak and 1 steak...
If you can, play TS !

TS on Emrakul/Griselbrand and then Surgical on that card is nice to. Which demonstrates that Surgical is superior to Extirpate as a T1 Thoughtseize follow up.

[rubblekill]

I have died playing "duress" because the hand revealed 2 S&T or 2 Sneak and 1 steak...
If you can, play TS !

I edited that before your comment. TS is definitely better in that situation.

[Ralf]

BLASPHEMY! Also, aren't you a character from Ed, Edd n Eddie? Ralf, the Foreign guy.

More a character from the AAA agency

Joke aside.

I don't publish fancy or juicy walls of text for the sake of it.

I play Nic Fit because I'm a Timmy but a spiky Timmy...

The lists I provide, here, have been playtested properly OR I say otherwise.

- 2 Junk Fit (Pod & Non Pod)
- 3 Bug Fit (Walker / Control / Wish Fit)
- 1 Jund Fit (Valakut)

I have put aside Rea Fit and P.F Jund Fit lists for the moment.

[Ricardio]

More a character from the AAA agency

What are you wearing, Ralf from AAA?

[Bobmans]

The grind is real.

This. I feel that with the 4 Rhino list games close out faster then i used to be able to with both Jund and lists similar to yours. DRS is an example here that van really force games into stand-off's. They are amazing against certain MU's, but most fair.dec they are meh.
When i'm playing BUG Delver i think that DRS is often mvp. Just feels less right in here.
Anyhow i have 1 slot open as i want to boot DLD, but i was there was room for a 2nd. Either 61st slot or instead of Dryad Arbor. But Arbor proved to be more valuable as i innitially anticipated.

[Ralf]

What are you wearing, Ralf from AAA?

That was a joke !
Ed, Edd & Eddy are a bunch of losers :)
AAA agency has some losers too! But cool ones :)

And atm I'm wearing an old jacket because it is cold in France...

[Ralf]

This. I feel that with the 4 Rhino list games close out faster then i used to be able to with both Jund and lists similar to yours. DRS is an example here that van really force games into stand-off's. They are amazing against certain MU's, but most fair.dec they are meh.
When i'm playing BUG Delver i think that DRS is often mvp. Just feels less right in here.
Anyhow i have 1 slot open as i want to boot DLD, but i was there was room for a 2nd. Either 61st slot or instead of Dryad Arbor. But Arbor proved to be more valuable as i innitially anticipated.

Yes and no.

4 rhino WILL close games faster. I'm not denying that.

But in my meta, I'm expecting a fair game out of 10.

If you play delver decks all day long, 4 rhino is the way to go.

Unfortunately, when you are facing:
- ANT
- MUD
- Infect
- Miracle
- S&T variant
- Reanimator
- 4 color/Lands

Either you adapt your deck or you die.

The hell, even decks playing Cabal Therapy have been a pain in the ass lately with all the 4-of we can have in our deck.

Unfortunately, I'm not living in Disneyland or Magic Delver land !!! Rather the exception than the rule.

But I keep faith we have the tools to fight back !