[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Xerlic]

What would you guys say is the core of the deck? Trying to build my first legacy deck so why not start with one that plays nearly all the most expensive cards?!


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Asthereal made a good post on the previous page here that sums up what the core and flex cards are. Lot of good information there.

[Dutch253]

Asthereal made a good post on the previous page here that sums up what the core and flex cards are. Lot of good information there.

Sorry! Just looked at page 1 then posted. Thanks!


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[Dutch253]

Asthereal made a good post on the previous page here that sums up what the core and flex cards are. Lot of good information there.

Someone also said on that page if you're playing to win don't play BUG. What's that all about? I thought the deck is solid?


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[Secretly.A.Bee]

The deck is fine. Play it. I play all types of delver, this is my favorite, albeit I play the Stifle version. I dislike all-in tempo decks.

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[btm10]

Yeah, Kobe isn't the best source of insight for this deck. With Storm variants on the rise, Delver might be the best positioned BUG deck, and I have sweet tech for the Lands matchup.

[Asthereal]

Someone also said on that page if you're playing to win don't play BUG. What's that all about? I thought the deck is solid?

That was a recommendation to one person in parcticular who has a somewhat hostile local meta to be playing Team America. Still, this deck can beat any deck, and it is very rewarding and fun to play, so I advocated against that particular recommendation regardless of an unfriendly meta.

PS. Thanks, Xerlic. My post is about the Hymn version. I'm not very familiar with the Stifle version.

[Whitefaces]

Yeah, Kobe isn't the best source of insight for this deck. With Storm variants on the rise, Delver might be the best positioned BUG deck, and I have sweet tech for the Lands matchup.

Please share! I have a number of Lands players at my LGS. I manage to win most times I play them, but it's always incredibly close and a little variance either side could sway it. The deck has been performing very well for me recently going 4-0, 4-0, and 3-1 last night at our weekly Legacy night (just losing to RUG, being on the draw is so rough if that deck has good draws).

My SBing plan for Lands is below. I understand taking out Stifle may seem unintuitive, but vs the combo it only buys you a turn and I feel like it's applications only arise when you're already losing. Reasoning for two decay otd is they're sometimes able to land a chalice/choke/sphere/whatever through the soft countermagic, on the play I'm banking on keeping Dazes and Pierces live for long enough to kill them.

OTP
-4 Decay
-3 Stifle
+2 Surgical
+2 Submerge
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Winter Orb

OTD
-2 Decay
-2 Daze
-3 Stifle
+2 Surgical
+2 Submerge
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Winter Orb

List for reference

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
8 blue fetch

SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Submerge
2 Disfigure
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtsteize
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Dread of Night
1 Misdirection
1 Winter Orb
1 Null Rod

[KobeBryan]

Yeah, Kobe isn't the best source of insight for this deck. With Storm variants on the rise, Delver might be the best positioned BUG deck, and I have sweet tech for the Lands matchup.

At the time when i made that comment bug delver was not in a good position. You may not agree with me. But enhinjer and asthreal agreed at that time too.

Removed flames. Seriously, are you expecting to get away with this kind of behavior? This isn't 4chan. — Julian23

[Gazoline]

Hello!
I was the one with the hostile meta =)
i played BUG delver for my first time last saturday finished third! I met UR delver but with kiln fiend instead of delver and some other spells like mutagenic growth n distortionstrike. second match i won 2-1 against high tide and third match was against i think another URDelver list =)

i won a bye (from passdown) to a bigger event that im going to this saturday in an unknown meta! there are 52players signed up for that event atm at facebook but i wouldnt suprised if we reached 60 or so players.
Im getting excited! :D

I have lousy memory of things i play and such because all my energy is used to play with the new deck =) but i will try to give you a semireport on the tournament if you would like it :)

My feelings towards Team america sofar? I love it! and it let me grow as a magic player. its loads of fun! =)

Cheers and thanks for the help with my 75 earlier! =)

[Asthereal]

Hello!
I was the one with the hostile meta =)
i played BUG delver for my first time last saturday finished third! I met UR delver but with kiln fiend instead of delver and some other spells like mutagenic growth n distortionstrike. second match i won 2-1 against high tide and third match was against i think another URDelver list =)

i won a bye (from passdown) to a bigger event that im going to this saturday in an unknown meta! there are 52players signed up for that event atm at facebook but i wouldnt suprised if we reached 60 or so players.
Im getting excited! :D

I have lousy memory of things i play and such because all my energy is used to play with the new deck =) but i will try to give you a semireport on the tournament if you would like it :)

My feelings towards Team america sofar? I love it! and it let me grow as a magic player. its loads of fun! =)

Cheers and thanks for the help with my 75 earlier! =)

Glad to read you enjoy it and get results this quickly.
Good luck in the bigger event!

[o_boogie]

Despite the naysayers I think this deck is extremely well positioned right now. I would encourage anyone who is intrigued to play it and formulate your own opinions before letting others dissuade you from trying it. Here is the 75 I piloted to 3-1 at last night's weekly legacy event.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
1 Dimir Charm

2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Disfigure
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
1 Force of Will
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Envelop
1 Spell Pierce
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Dismember
1 Life from the Loam
1 Null Rod

Round 1: Beat Junk Midrange 2-0

Sideboard => Play: -3 Force of Will, +3 Disfigure. Draw: -4 Daze, -3 Force of Will, -1 Hymn to Tourach, +3 Disfigure, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Dismember, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 Null Rod

Round 2: Beat ANT 2-0

Sideboard => -4 Abrupt Decay, -2 Tarmogoyf, -1 Bayou, +2 Surgical Extraction, +1 Force of Will, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Envelop, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Null Rod

Round 3: Beat Elves 2-0

Sideboard => -4 Hymn to Tourach, -4 Daze, -1 Tarmogoyf, -1 Bayou, +3 Disfigure, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Force of Will, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Envelop, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Dismember

Round 4: Lost to Goblin Stompy 1-2. Game 1 my opponent on the play went turn 1 Chrome Mox, Cavern of Soul naming human, and pitching Simian Spirit Guide to cast an uncounterable Magus of the Moon. #FeelsBadMan.

Sideboard => -2 Liliana of the Veil, -1 Bayou, -1 Dimir Charm, +1 Force of Will, +1 Spell Pierce, +2 Disfigure

[H]

Congrats to those finding success lately. The deck is fine in the meta. I only stopped running it because my locals were gunning for me, running things like 4x Submerge in the board and other nonsense. Once I am done being sick and can get back on the horse, I'll be slinging Hymns back at people again.

[mosaic]

I will add my few cents as well. This is the 75 I played and ended up 3-1 at last night's weekly legacy event.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
1 Murderous Cut

4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Golgari Charm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Null Rod
1 Dread of Night
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sylvan Library
1 Winter Orb
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Submerge
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Nihil Spellbomb

(some times I also pack Pithing Needle and Maelstrom Pulse)

Round 1: Lost to Patrick Chapin's deck (Esper Mentor) 2-0
Sideboard -> -4 Force of Will, -2 Thoughtseize, +1 Dread of Night, +1 Sylvan Library, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Toxic Deluge, 1 Golgari Charm

Round 2: Win Deathblade 2-0
Sideboard -> -4 Force of Will, -2 Thoughtseize, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Sylvan Library,

Round 3: Win UR - Helm of Awakening + Sensei's Divining Top +Counterbanalnce storm combo 2-0
Sideboad -> -4 Force of Will, -2 Thoughtseize, -1 Murderous Cut, +1 Sylvan Library, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Null Rod, +1 Liliana of the Veil

Round 4: Win ANT without Ad Nauseam (Storm) 2-0

Sideboard -> -2 True-Name Nemesis, -3 Abrupt Decay, -1 Murderous Cut, -1 Tropical, +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Null Rod, +1 Nihil Spellbomb + Sylvan Library

Underestimated Esper Mentor, did not make optimal sideboarding and made a couple of misplays. (did 2 misplays - I am aware of - even on round 3, but the deck backed me up, actually the deck tend to do that... sometimes)

[btm10]

Hello!
I was the one with the hostile meta =)
i played BUG delver for my first time last saturday finished third! I met UR delver but with kiln fiend instead of delver and some other spells like mutagenic growth n distortionstrike. second match i won 2-1 against high tide and third match was against i think another URDelver list =)

i won a bye (from passdown) to a bigger event that im going to this saturday in an unknown meta! there are 52players signed up for that event atm at facebook but i wouldnt suprised if we reached 60 or so players.
Im getting excited! :D

I have lousy memory of things i play and such because all my energy is used to play with the new deck =) but i will try to give you a semireport on the tournament if you would like it :)

My feelings towards Team america sofar? I love it! and it let me grow as a magic player. its loads of fun! =)

Cheers and thanks for the help with my 75 earlier! =)

Congrats on your finish!

At the time when i made that comment bug delver was not in a good position. You may not agree with me. But enhinjer and asthreal agreed at that time too.

You're all free to disagree with me, but Asthreal said that his (sorry if this is the wrong pronoun) meta "looks tough for BUG", which I agree with. You said not to play the deck at all if winning was the goal. There's a world of difference there. You gave the same advice to someone considering the Hymn/Liliana build because the anticipated field contained Merfolk (an admittedly unfavorable but totally winnable matchup) and MUD (which is somewhere between favorable and even). In short, I think you're excessively pessimistic about the deck's chances.

As for the tech, I'm on a pretty stock Hymn list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis

4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Painful Truths

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Sideboard

2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Winter Orb
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Disfigure
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dread of Night
1 Envelop
1 Darkblast
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Marsh Casualties

While it's theoretically possible to be Wasted off of green with this list, people usually go after Seas first. Also, you're unlikely to win a game where you get triple Wastelanded and can't stick a Deathrite anyway. Going Jailer-heavy is a deliberate concession to Lands. Not only does it force them to kill it rather than DRS, it permanently shuts down both engines as long as its in play. Gamble becomes an actual gamble. Crop Rotation has a very real cost. Hymn has text again. It also means that your Wastelands aren't as taxed. It does make Reanimator and Storm variants a bit tougher to beat than having more conventional graveyard hate, but you have other tools in those matchups and the singleton Spellbomb is still good against them. Painful Truths is great. I'm still not sure it's better than Bob, but drawing 3 at once is extremely powerful and flipping Delver is also attractive.

I'm currently leaning toward playing this at FNM tomorrow and then taking it to a 5K for Eternal Extravaganza byes (in Baltimore, MD) on Saturday. I'm not sure which BUG deck is best, so I've been testing them all.

[H]

While I really like Jailer (I believe he is the best hate available in Vintage) I don't think I like him in Legacy, because outside of Lands, he doesn't really cross over to other decks. I almost always play 2 Surgical in that spot, simply because it is more versatile in the sense that I can come in versus a lot more decks.

How has Painful Truths been in this shell? I am definitely looking at running at least a pair when I finally get to try them out.

[Bobmans]

I see some people running Winter Orb, against which deck/archetype is it boarded in and what should the effect be useful at?

[KobeBryan]

I see some people running Winter Orb, against which deck/archetype is it boarded in and would should the effect be usefull at?

Miracles. Maybe jund

[btm10]

While I really like Jailer (I believe he is the best hate available in Vintage) I don't think I like him in Legacy, because outside of Lands, he doesn't really cross over to other decks. I almost always play 2 Surgical in that spot, simply because it is more versatile in the sense that I can come in versus a lot more decks.

I totally understand this perspective and I'm absolutely sacrificing broad utility for more power in a small number of matchups. I've tried Surgical in the past and I've always found it to be quite polarized. You feel like a genius when you get all of Dredge's Ichorids or Narcomoebas, but that's the only time it ever felt great to me, and it's so rare to be able to get something from their graveyard and hand that the potential for "value-hosing" doesn't make up for its weaknesses as far as I'm concerned. I've gotten all of somebody's Loams or Punishing Fires too many times only to die to the other engine that I'm willing to make my graveyard hate a little more focused in order to make Lands and Loam palatable matchups. Storm variants and Reanimator are the two decks that aren't hosed by it and while I'm definitely taking a risk by boarding less hate for them, I'm still confident that they're favorable enough matchups to cheat a smidge on hate.

How has Painful Truths been in this shell? I am definitely looking at running at least a pair when I finally get to try them out.

I like it so far. i haven't gotten in what I'd call a robust number of matches with this configuration, but it does what to needs to do against Miracles, D&T, and Shardless. To date I do miss MD Liliana and Spell Pierce, but that might be my irrational bias against non-Decay removal maindeck talking.

[Bobmans]

Miracles. Maybe jund

Interesting, didn't expect those, please elaborate.
Ain it useful against MUD or Cloudpost?
At what point is Winter Orb gonna take over a game from Miracles?
And why Jund specifically?

[btm10]

Winter Orb is for any deck that's slower than us. It severely hampers the ability of opponents to maximize effects like Top that require mana input every turn, it makes cards like Rishadan Port much worse, and makes Deathrite and Wasteland much better. You want to play it when your opponent is tapped out (or tapped low) so that you get the maximum tempo boost from it - also note that it's a way to turn your Dazes and Pierces back on.