Confirmed: Eternal Masters - June 10, 2016

[Koby]

I do not consider the list fake just for the assumption that the RL will or will not be maintained.

Regardless, i don't think this list is real either.

Then I have else nothing to offer you, as reason & logic aren't sufficient.

[Stuart]

I'm sure there is a cost benefit analysis that they've done. Once the expected income exceeds the likely class action lawsuit following the removal of the reserve list it'll happen. Hasbro is a business and its all about dollars and cents. Regardless of employee / manager sentiments they all answer to a board of directors that demand profits.

Not to send us too far down the RL rabbit hole, but who would even be involved in a class action lawsuit? I assume Wizards has a good relationship with the biggest retailers (like SCG); if they ever do away with the RL, they'll give them a heads up so they can shift their stock before reprints effect prices, and therefore preserve that relationship. And if they managed to handle that, who else would sue them? Small shops and individual collectors? Those guys would probably have a hard time proving they only bought RL stuff on the assumption it would never be reprinted . . .

Likewise, this cost-benefit stuff isn't totally cut and dry. Corporate legal departments don't always just say "no" to risk; it kind of depends on the general counsel and culture they've got in their legal dept. A more enlightened general counsel would probably advise WotC/Hasbro that abolishing the RL is risky, but there are ways of doing it that mitigate risk while, obviously, making a lot of player good-will and revenue. The fact that Eternal Masters just happened is some indication that WotC isn't totally risk averse.

[nevilshute]

I do not consider the list fake just for the assumption that the RL will or will not be maintained.

Regardless, i don't think this list is real either.

They said in the official announcement - on their website that no reserve list cards will be reprinted.

[Bobmans]

They said in the official announcement - on their website that no reserve list cards will be reprinted.

This is what i was looking for Koby, facts.

[Reagens]

I'm sure there is a cost benefit analysis that they've done. Once the expected income exceeds the likely class action lawsuit following the removal of the reserve list it'll happen. Hasbro is a business and its all about dollars and cents. Regardless of employee / manager sentiments they all answer to a board of directors that demand profits.

Don't think so.
The cost would be impossible to calculate and would not only stem from lawsuits but also players/traders giving up on Magic because of the liability in having an extensive magic collection. If tommorow they would reprint moxen, lotus and what not what would stop them from printing tarmogoyf as a rare in a core set?
Hasbro would have undermined the credibility of their game and that credibility is the foremost reason why the reserved list was created in the first place.

[Koby]

This is what i was looking for Koby, facts.

See Opening Post. The one with the official announcement.

[Bobmans]

See Opening Post. The one with the official announcement.

You are right. I am a cunt.

[maharis]

I honestly don't get Wizards' motivation to release this set. It's one thing to find an outlet to reprint Legacy cards on a high level -- Conspiracy did a great job of this, IMO, not only reprinting Stifle, Deed, and Exploration, but also adding Dack and Council's Judgment, and some other smaller-dollar reprints like Brainstorm, Fires and IGG.

But "eternal masters" carries a lot of baggage along with it. Modern Masters, and Vintage Masters online, were pretty explicit about their goal to increase the amount of playable cards to support a format. But they're reiterating their support of the RL with every new slice of information about this set. So it's going to be impossible to support Legacy and Vintage on the level that such a set implies. I could see if this set was geared toward the EDH/casual crowd.... but is there a big demand from casual players for FOW and Wasteland?

Other than the pure craven pursuit of money, I don't understand why Wizards wants to even draw attention to formats with such strong card availability headwinds. It seems like it can only make its notoriously cranky customers even more mad. "I opened this Force in my $10 pack and I need to spend another $2000 to play it!"

Unless they have a plan to fix the mana bottleneck in eternal -- something coming in SOI block or another supplemental set. Or some sort of reserved list gymnastics where they take the duals off but concrete the rest -- "don't ever ask us again, this is what you're getting"

[Finn]

I honestly don't get Wizards' motivation to release this set...Other than the pure craven pursuit of money...

You are good, man. Carry on.

I don't mean the sparse comment as a dispersion upon you or even Wizards. There just does not need to be anything more.

[Koby]

You are good, man. Carry on.

I don't mean the sparse comment as a dispersion upon you or even Wizards. There just does not need to be anything more.

Yep, we could discuss and debate the intents for the set until the format is entirely blue decks. Ultimately, Wizards sees an opportunity to capitalize on the excitement for Eternal formats (between EDH and Cube, and Vintage revival and the size of Legacy GPs as data points). This is just good(ish) timing on their part to tap into the market and withdraw a few buckeroos while investing minimal design resources from MaRo's whacky filing cabinet. Classic example of a business decision that makes everyone happy for a low cost to the producer.

Let's be perfectly clear too:
This is a good reprint set. It's not the BEST reprint set, but it's something. It delivers in ways that Battle for Scars of Mirrodin Returns can never hope to.

Reprints are good.
Reserve List is bad.
Reserve List cannot be modified.
Therefore, this is about as good as we can get for the short term.

[Cartesian]

Reprints are good.
Reserve List is bad.
Reserve List cannot be modified.
Therefore, this is about as good as we can get for the short term.

I agree with all of that, except the bold.
The RL has been modified at least twice since 1996, policies have changed, and cards have even been taken off the list.

[Koby]

I agree with all of that, except the bold.
The RL has been modified at least twice since 1996, policies have changed, and cards have even been taken off the list.

Correct. I implied "in a manner that would provide net benefit to players"

[twndomn]

Reprints are good.
Reserve List is bad.
Reserve List cannot be modified.

That's what they said when Supreme Court made another ridiculous ruling, and then look at what happened to that one judge. Now, it'll be different going forward.

That's right, if you get rid of Maro, the policy can be over-written.

[Star|Scream]

I'm really confused. For years people have been saying "Even though they can't reprint RL cards the least they could do is FOW & Wasteland, etc." Now they are doing that and people are still upset?

[phonics]

I'm really confused. For years people have been saying "Even though they can't reprint RL cards the least they could do is FOW & Wasteland, etc." Now they are doing that and people are still upset?

Honestly, considering how MM and MM2 effected prices (they didn't), and it looks like they are following the same format, I predict that some of the ~30-40$ cards in it will get cheaper, wasteland may be like 10$ cheaper but there wont be any significant change. Since it is going to be a draft format first and reprints second, there will undoubtedly be many cards left out. This combined with speculators who are going to buy out everything, I don't expect anything from this other than a fun draft format maybe. The only way to effectively drop prices that we have seen so far is to print as a rare in an actual block set like Thoughtseize and the fetches.

[Lemnear]

I'm really confused. For years people have been saying "Even though they can't reprint RL cards the least they could do is FOW & Wasteland, etc." Now they are doing that and people are still upset?

Yeah, people wanted FoW, Wasteland and other cards reprinted A DECADE AGO to fight the ridiculous prices driving away potential players and Legacy going the way of Vintage suffering from card scarcity, but printing this set NOW is far too late to save Legacy long-term especially as they STILL have not touched the RL nonsense

[H]

I'm really confused. For years people have been saying "Even though they can't reprint RL cards the least they could do is FOW & Wasteland, etc." Now they are doing that and people are still upset?

I don't see why you are confused though. That is literally the most predictable thing in the history of things.

[ReAnimator]

That's right, if you get rid of Maro, the policy can be over-written.

Doesn't Maro and pretty much all of R&D hate the RL, and have stated so publicly? Pretty sure it's the lawyers and suits that want it stuck too.

Like i get the Maro hate but this seems just really off base.

[Lemnear]

Doesn't Maro and pretty much all of R&D hate the RL, and have stated so publicly? Pretty sure it's the lawyers and suits that want it stuck too.

Like i get the Maro hate but this seems just really off base.

If he'd care they'd slap an expire date onto the list which is legally fine

[out51d3r]

If he'd care they'd slap an expire date onto the list which is legally fine

That is a reasonable way to solve the problem.


I find it pretty unlikely that the reserve list will continue the way it is now. It's a self imposed barrier between WotC and profit from Legacy/Vintage. Now that they are making a real push to make money from those formats, I can't see that barrier standing for much longer.