[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

Karakas be a pain in the ass. Sick of Meren getting bounced, especially with no waste to deal with it ( and dont say run Vindicate). Juzam would be sick, but no trample is balls. But for pimpness? Id run my playset.

Have you tried running vinidicate? (thrun face)

And you respond like clockwork :-)

Wolfir does not trade 1-1. Worst case it trades a Veteran Explorer for Smasher. Itself would be 8/8 and coupled with Rhino... another 8/9 trample. It gives both an attacker and a blocker.

I like wolfir BUTT hes 5 cmc whereas tusk and sigarda are strictly better across the board.

He probably runs 5 or 6...

don't even act like you wouldn't if you could. MOAR RHINO, MOAR BETTER.

Thanks for the answer. Are you running the full 4 rhinos? Don't be offended by this question mate, I'm serious.

I AM TRIGGERED and I thought your name was rubblekill, not serious.

[Gruby]

Hi, would somebody clarify me the relationship between PrimeTime fetching Valakut+mountain?
I don't always understand that valakut trigger but I want to try scape after Pfire.

Thanks in advance

[uncletiggy]

well i had a long winded thought on looking back into abyssal persecutor and going back to our controll roots but it appears i closed the tab out...

[Bobmans]

Hi, would somebody clarify me the relationship between PrimeTime fetching Valakut+mountain?
I don't always understand that valakut trigger but I want to try scape after Pfire.

Thanks in advance

Lands see each other coming into play. So the fetched Valakut sees the Mountain and tiggers if consitions are met. Not sure if theres anything else you looking after?

Edit: dont forget you can target creatures aswell so you clear the path for creatures to attack if the situation requires that.

[Ricardio]

Hi, would somebody clarify me the relationship between PrimeTime fetching Valakut+mountain?
I don't always understand that valakut trigger but I want to try scape after Pfire.

Thanks in advance

Are you referring to 1 valakut and 4 mountains in play, you put prime time trigger on the stack and grab 2 mountains? they enter simaltaniously which means they are each the 6th mountain and trigger separately.

well i had a long winded thought on looking back into abyssal persecutor and going back to our controll roots but it appears i closed the tab out...

Re-type it you lazy delver. Besides, we can learn to not close tabs like we're hiding something.

Innocent blood would be good.

[Navsi]

If valakut / mountains enter the battlefield all at once, they all see each other. For example:

If you have 4 mountains + Valakut in play, you can Primeval Titan for two mountains, and each of them will see the required five other mountains and trigger off Valakut.

If you have 5 mountains but no Valakut, searching for Valakut and a mountain will give you one trigger because the entering mountain will see Valakut + 5 other mountains.

Basically, your options are:


1. 3 Mountains: get Valakut + 1 mountain.
2. 4 Mountains: get double Valakut. If you already have one, get double Mountain instead.
3. 5+ Mountains: if you need damage this turn or already have a Valakut get Valakut + mountain. If you want to max damage next turn, get double Valakut.

If they have wasteland, assume you have 1 fewer mountain than you actually have for the purpose of triggering Valakut.

[Warden]

Playing this Sunday. What do you guys think of this list?

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk

4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Painful Truths
2 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games

4 Taiga
4 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

1 Flex Slot - probably a removal spell (maybe a maindeck Deluge). Could be Primeval Titan I guess but he didn't feel impressive without better utility lands. It always worries me that if I make Primeval and get two or so triggers, I get to throw three or so bolts at my opponent but I don't have many Mountains left in my deck afterwards which makes ending the game with Scapeshift pretty difficult.

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize

1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games

2 Flex Slot - might be a third decay if it isn't maindeck. Other options are a third Needle, Diabolic Edicts, fourth Surgical, or a second Slaughter Games to side in.

I ended up keeping the Sakura-Tribe Elder and swapping the third Bayou for a forest to support him, since he's so handy as a blocker / shuffle / anti-dredge even without the targets, and adding a third Forest helps Nissa as well.

Honestly, 2 Witness. This is especially true for BurningWish-ScapeFit. You'll benefit from just insta-killing them. You'll die if a piece of your machine gets countered along the way.

Something can be adjusted in here:
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Painful Truths
2 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter Games ----------> I don't like MD slaughter games. I'd heavily consider Toxic Deluge in this slot OR as a wish target/sb.

*Please consider Courser in this build (feeds into the Valakut-Scapeshift ideas, synergy with SDT, ramps you, gains you life to survive into Scape). Also experiment with Inferno Titan (who looks like crap on paper but isn't the worst thing in the world for more developed metagames --- 3 dmg divided for a CIP/Declared Attk is nuts).

[Navsi]

I'm playing main deck Slaughter because the meta where I am generally has quite a lot of Miracles and combo variants (Sneak and Show, reanimator, storm, sometimes painter). I played two last tournament which went well but two might be overdoing it.

The second Witness seems reasonable. I might try it or Courser in the slot - I'm not expecting that much fast aggro / delver / burn so Witness probably gets the slot, although Courser looks good for Death and Taxes too.

I was playing a Deluge side but swapped it for Massacre because DnT / Mentor. The two slots that are open were previously a Decay and a Krosan Grip but neither of them felt that impressive.

[Deadinthestreet]

On game 1, turn 1 while being on the play, if you are going T1 therapy into turn 2 veteran, what is the best thing to name with therapy when you have nooooo idea what they are on yet? Just brainstorm? Seeing as it's the most popular card in the format and they won't be able brainstorm in response to your next therapy if they indeed are on blue. Still trying to figure out the staple plays. T1 swamp, therapy, T2 forest, vet, sac, get forest and plains and painful truths just to play a rhino or green sun next turn orrrr have removal up is just so good. I love this deck

[Navsi]

I generally hold Therapy till turn two if I don't have any ideas for targets. If I'm gonna run it blind turn 1 I'd probably name LED just because the decks it hits are the ones where hitting turn 1 is most essential.

[sdematt]

Thanks for the answer. Are you running the full 4 rhinos? Don't be offended by this question mate, I'm serious.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Meren of Clan Tel Noth
15

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3/4 Abrupt Decay
3/2 Path to Exile
14

1 Sylvan Library
2 Painful Truths
3 Sensei's Divining Top
6

2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Diabolic Intent
4

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
21

[TTX]

I agree on holding Therapy til turn 2. But if you must, turn 1 Brainstorm, LED, or CotV (depending on your hand)


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[Gruby]

Lands see each other coming into play. So the fetched Valakut sees the Mountain and tiggers if consitions are met. Not sure if theres anything else you looking after?

Edit: dont forget you can target creatures aswell so you clear the path for creatures to attack if the situation requires that.

That means only two fetched are "bolts"? I wasn't sure that valakut and mountains "bolt" for each other including those already on battlefield (18+ dmg)

[Deadinthestreet]

Guess I was just thinking that if you wait til turn two in that scenario you are more prone to daze if you t1 land go, t2 therapy, then play a vet, it's possible to have it get dazed.

I supposed if you are game 1 turn 1, you can second turn play second land, veteran, then therapy and even if they daze it because you can sac vet to it buuuuut that sequencing also leaves you open to STP.

Guess I'm afraid to not play around a bunch of stuff and if they are on storm is rather have them not go off a turn sooner? I dunno haha

[TTX]

If someone spends a Daze and StP on my Therapy and Veteran I'm fine with that.


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[Ricardio]

If someone spends a Daze and StP on my Therapy and Veteran I'm fine with that.


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That is thoroughly flawed thinking. You should ALWAYS play around daze if it is known and if you can. Playing a turn behind to resolve your vet trigger is absolutely the correct play. Squandering resources with the belief that trading tit for tat ends fine is obviously too much belief in the mystical.

If you are on the draw, your opening hand is swamp, forest, cabal therapy, vet, X, Y, Z and you know your opponent is on blue and theres a chance they are playing daze, wait to therapy t2 to play around daze and make informed decisions only then after. more often than not, a single turn is 3 delver damage. if that's all it takes for me to get my engine going and rhino out the delver player, I can most certainly wait.

First vet trigger, in most mu's, catches us up, any after that and we are way ahead. We go bigger but we need mana to do that.

[Deadinthestreet]

Is it pretty common for delver decks to stifle a vet trigger to slow us down in those tempo match ups?

[Ricardio]

Is it pretty common for delver decks to stifle a vet trigger to slow us down in those tempo match ups?

I have had it happen. I have had t1 vet forced. Vet can be very frightening for mana denial decks which leads to strange lines. I audibly laugh when vet gets stifled.

[Bobmans]

Is it pretty common for delver decks to stifle a vet trigger to slow us down in those tempo match ups?

Ya, pretty much a templo play there. But your opponent will probably tap out T1 for DRS/Ponder/Delver.

[hobart]

Is it pretty common for delver decks to stifle a vet trigger to slow us down in those tempo match ups?

I'd say it's pretty common among delver players that have a clue. It's why you should probably name stifle with the blind therapy if they have blue up, you expect they are playing with stifle, and you plan on taking the sac veteran line soon.