You got rid of the miser's LED?!? Sad.Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
I will definitely say that chalice has become very popular lately. However, this deck is otherwise so well set up against the eldrazi decks, 12 post and MUD that I think now is a good time to play this deck.
List seems solid. Obviously no "pet" cards there but every card is tried and tested. I actually really like the EE main in this build.
Anyway, good luck in Philly!
Hi people,
I will do 3 big tournament within 30 days to come.
The first is this saturday. I need your opinion beetween 2 deck list :
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite
3 Goblin Welder
Spells
4 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ghirapur Æther Grid
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Grindstone
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
Lands
2 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
Sideboard
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Trinisphere
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sudden Demise
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
Or this one :
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite
3 Goblin Welder
Spells
4 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Grindstone
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Lotus Petal
Lands
1 Plains
3 Mountain
1 Great Furnace
1 Wooded Foothills
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
Sideboard
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Trinisphere
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sudden Demise
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
I accept any change. tell me.
I think i can not ignore this deck : Miracle, BUG, Delver deck, Storm, reanim, Loam deck, and probably eldrazi
Oh my. Well I can tell you right now that I'm sure EVERYONE ELSE on this thread is going to go with option #2. That being the case, I will let them chime in on changes they would make to that list.
However, if you do happen to go with option #1 (which is a variant of the list I've been playing for months now), I will throw my $0.02 in on a few cards. First, I ended up switching one of the opals to a lion's eye diamond. You don't usually want to have more than one opal, and any tricks that you would do running one opal into another for an extra mana on one turn is tripled with LED. There have been 2-3 times where I wish I hadn't made the switch. But there have been MANY more times that LED just wins out of nowhere.
Second, I found Keranos to not be great. He was okay as an alt win con against decks like 12 post but against Miracles, he actually was almost too slow against Mentors and more creature heavy builds of Miracles. That seems to be the trend that I'm seeing. However, if you have the plan of trying to hide behind an ensnaring bridge and snipe, then Keranos is pretty good I guess (you also probably should play the third opal if you are going to keep Keranos). He is obviously extremely hard to deal with from your opponent (although Miracles has council's judgement and Vensor). I ended up switching to a sword of War and Peace. It does some heavy damage early and protects your creatures from swords and mentors, etc. I have raced a mentor many times with an equipped dork. You can also get it back from the GY with welder, which I like. It also has good utility in the burn MU. I play canonist over revoker in the main but that's more of a meta call. I have an unreasonable fear of storm and elves.
I will say, I absolutely LOVE the aether grid and almost never side it out. I have a couple videos on my Twitch channel that show it in action (please disregard the uber bone-headed play with the blast; but the grid let me win that game anyway!). It certainly isn't everyone's cup-o-tea though (see the 5 pages of posts around 5 pages ago) but it takes your opponent off guard at the very least.
Finally, I will also say that I do really like spellskite in the main in both versions. It has won me multiple games and is MVP in the Infect match-up, which I think will also become more popular as it has a good MU against Post and Eldrazi decks as well.
Speaking of which, I do really think this deck is well positioned right now and I have been doing extremely well online with it. So, if the big tourney meta's have any similarity to online, this deck could go far. That being the case, I would even consider the mirror a little more if you are going to something > 100 people.
Jack,
I ran your list yesterday to a 1st place finish at our monthly west coast legacy preservation series in Seattle.
The changes I made were in the sideboard:
-2 firebolt
+1 sphere of law
+1 warmth
My match ups were:
2-1 death and taxes
2-0 aggro loam
2-0 shardless BUG
2-1 grixis delver
2-1 BURN
ID jeski stoneblade
ID miracles
First seed going into top 8 (painter, miracles, grixis, aggro loam, grixis, miracles, grixis, tin fins).
T8 2-1 grixis delver
T4 2-1 grixis delver
Finals 2-0 aggro loam
Overall the deck was solid all day. Pyrokinesis and blood moon were the mvps.
For grixis I was boarding:
+3 pyrokinesis
+1 hedge mage
-1 Magus
-1 Jaya
-1 enlightened tutor
-1 lotus petal
The burn matchup was epic. Both game 2 and 3 involved early sphere and warmth stabilizing at +15 life. Both were still close, although in different regards.
Game 2:
Turn 1 EOT ET for sphere
Turn 2 play sphere
Turn 4 play warmth
The hate is real.
He follows the warmth up with sulfuric vortex, thereby shutting off warmth but giving himself a doomsday clock. For the rest of the game I refuse to play and creatures (searing blaze/shatter, ie 1 damage). Or more nonbasic lands (had two from sphere).
The game ends when he can't push through enough damage before he is consumed within his vortex, with me at TWO life (4 prices 3 fireblast and more later).
Game 3
He turn 1 tops
I turn 1 warmth off and basic and petal. Followed up with a turn 3 sphere using petal and ssg to avoid playing non basics - the game is no longer about life.
I proceed to recuiter chain with top to keep the creatures flowing. We start to get into the "firecraft your painter" territory. He plays tight and refuses to tap low which might let me combo. Eventually I run him out of burn and my army of 1/1's gets there -almost going to time.
It's amazing how bad the burn matchup is.
Oh, and obviously the finals match:
Game 1
Me, fetch go
Him, mox bayou chalice 1 - response tutor for bloodmoon.
My turn, play Tomb bloodmoon double ssg play revoker name mox. And it goes from there.
Game 2.
He mulls, "Wasteland go."
I drop Tomb petal bloodmoon.
"Barreled" as you would say.
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Do you think pyrokinesis is actually better against the delver decks than pyroclasm? I'm always so worried about the card disadvantage but the potential no mana cost does seem really nice. I want to tweak my sb before this weekend and I think I want two board sweep effects but I'm not sure what they should be.
Not even close.
Instant speed and free let's you interact on your terms.
Play conservative and make them waste all thier counters on your big bombs then just wrath thier whole team when they have thier pants down.
The same is true for DnT elves even bug or aggro loam.
I would play 3 pyrokinesis before I play anything else.
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Congratulations on the big win, McBain.
Despite how long I've been on the deck and the number of times I've played against elves, I can never figure it out, should we leave blood moon in post board or take it out? Wondering what you guys think and why.
EDIT: I tend to get different responses from various elf players too.
I definitely bring in the 3rd Magus when I play against Elves with Taxcake, FWIW. Cradle is a bitch, and they only have so many green lands. With Moon out and Revoker on Heritage Druid their deck becomes kinda lumpy.
If you are on the play, T1 Moon is one of the strongest plays you can make in the matchup. For reference, Sebastian Bartl's (and Julian's) new list has exactly one basic forest and before that they had maybe two forests so it is nowadays even a better plan than it used to be. On the draw it's different as they only need to have a fetchland to play through it but it will likely blank their Decays anyway. So shave a few on the draw and maximize moons on the play.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
What is Taxcake? And yes Moon is the tits against elves. Obv stronger on the play, but the ability to shut down cradle and Decays is always good as you can then leverage Painter for maximum value. the ability to strategically use REB along with combo off at will is worth an early Moon. The trickiest part is figuring out when and how to use your REB. Often times just one will be enough to buy you time, it is just sometimes difficult to determine what to pop. Now stating what that is would be impossible in a post. It really just takes trial and error along with reading the game state. I think with practice you will find that elves is not a bad match up at all.
It will be interesting to see how bad teh proliferation of Eldrazi is into current Legacy. I probably would not make too many meta calls without data, but it will be interesting and painters should be aware that the environment may be hostile to the mill. My gut is telling me a 75 with 2 bridge effects and 5-6 graveyard hate spells should be able to fight teh good fight without issue though. I would probably cut all planeswalkers at this time from the lists. I just found that their value continues to decrease. Increasing Jaya is also reasonable as she is a total house against Miracles and Eldrazi decks along with just general value. I am still running the Pyroclams and Firebolt in the board as I can not commit to the Pyrokinesis at this time. I understand the strength and merit of the card and it may be the right choice. I just haven't tested enough to pick it over a card I know when and where I want to use it. Also Sulfer Elemental has a lot of merit and could replace a Revoker or Spellskite in the lists that are using them. On Jack's advice I have been using him online to good results over the past week.
I wanted to ask, how much fast mana are people using these days? With my most recent build I accidentally placed 7 total 4 petal/3SSG in the deck. To be honest I have loved the increased consistency of first turn Moon. With the 5 fetches and 3 R/w duals I really cant remember struggling to hit white when I needed it. I wanted to ask if others have tried this much as the best of my memory, I cant remember going above 6 in the past couple years. The key to this is I still have not added the Plains to the deck and really cant see the value as you will get those awkward hands. I do think every color producing land and source needs to be able to generate R.
Seth
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
If you take the StarCity Games website as any indication of what the eldrazi stompy decks are going to look like (they have several good videos currently posted of people playing eldrazi stompy), I feel very good about Painter's position. Chalice of the Void can be a problem and that card is definitely going up in popularity. But these decks typically are not playing any of the graveyard shuffling eldrazi so they are very millable. Also, both Painter's Servant and Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon make it very difficult for them to cast their spells. We have so much natural hate built in to our deck that it's nearly an auto-win. Bridge is definitely important though because the deck can be extremely aggressive. They have almost zero plays left in their deck after a blood moon though; and their only answer is ratchet bomb on three. I would expect that some people will start splashing green or white though for enchantment removal, as blood moon is such a serious problem for them in general. Unfortunately, I think Miracles and death & taxes will also gain popularity as they are also generally well equipped to deal with Eldrazi as well (not including 12-post decks, of course; that is a different animal all together). Mostly, you probably want to make sure you have some sort of answer to chalice on one because that will be the most frustrating thing you may see a lot of this weekend. I've played against eldrazi stompy several times online now and don't think I've lost a game. They are just so crippled by the main strategies of our deck.
Sadly, I'm not going to be able to make it to Philly this weekend. But I am looking forward to watching some of the broadcast and will be interested to hear how people do. Good luck to all those going!
Taxcake is Death and Taxes splashing Red for Imperial Recruiters and Magus of the Moons. Not quite the same deck, but...
As for more fast mana sources, I have to agree with your assessment, having more ways to generate either turn 1 Moon or the t2 kill is always good, though I prefer 4 SSG/3 Petal; the monkey attacks and blocks a bit better than the petal.
I would put my money on Jacks mana base "the traditional" right now.
I've tried other configurations and have always hated my delver match up. You want you delver opponent to probe and be dissapointed.
Seth, i have run sudden shock, Pyroclasm, rolling earthquake, sudden impact, you name it.
Pyrokinesis is hands down where I want to be.
I would run 3 before I run anything else. Just sand bag them a bit and you will not be dissapointed.
As for elves I'll typically max out on t1 moon options on the play and cut back for more burn on the draw. Elves is fairly even. It's often correct for them to take a control role.
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congratulation...side in and side out vs miracle and grixis delver? thanks
I drew into top 8 against miracles. Next played him.
I posted my grixis board in the write up. They key is to play conservative.
Miracles is kind of a matchup that each skilled painter pilot I talk to approaches differently. Generally your blood moons are still good. They are scared of your blasts and combo and will play slow if you do. Depending on the draw you might want to go fast or slow.
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Hi!
How many people will do the SCG today with painter deck??
My last tournament was a nightmare. 6 round i did 2-4, Bad Match Up, and totaly unlucky.
Last edited by Cyanhur; 02-27-2016 at 08:39 AM.
Jund, miracles surgicalling my grindstones, and burn trollololol #Philly
matchups have been complete dog shit past few big tournaments. oh well i guess i'll find the lands players eventually
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
Sorry to hear things didn't break your way.
I really hate all three of those match ups - especially when they know exactly how to beat you
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Jund and Burn are tier 2 decks, but Miracles is the top dog. If that is a bad matchup, why play the deck? EDIT: No snarkyness intended. As a former Imperial Painter player considering reassembling the deck, I'm genuinly curious.
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