3 MD Dismember is probably a good call since it trumps the mirror and could get rid of annoying creatures like 4/5 Goyfs or Anglers, among other things. I like that he cut down MD Wails. The flexibility is nice, but often not enough. I found myself either with no relevant sorceries to counter or stuff like a flipped Delver beating my ass. All while I sadly stare at a freshly drawn Wail.Originally Posted by conboy31
Shouldn't this deck move to the Established section? Looks like in a while it will be even in DtB one.
It will be once a deck is hammered out. We are still in the building phase. Optimal lists are not yet known and a primer is not yet written. Once that's done I will move it over.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
I think there are now more or less 2 variants:
The colorless variant played by many at Philly and a "colored devoid" variant being W/UW/GW or Bant centered around Displacer and cutting Mimics and/or Endless Ones.
The variant with Lodestone Golems is a more extreme version of colorless. Most decks mentioned here can be put into either of the categories.
Chalice on 1
The philly variants were based mostly off of Kevin Toolan's Eldrazi Shops article http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evo...eldrazi-shops/
I believe after the article, Toolan cut the trinis for 2 Jittes (first for a sword and a jitte, then cut the sword for more jitte), but it seems that the players at philly cut the wails for thorns and reduced the endbringer count.
Someone should write a primer, that's right.
As for the building phase, I disagree. It seems to me that it's quite usual to have different takes on an established archetype. Let's put aside for a while colored versions, the core of the colorless eldrazi is quite known. Of course there are different choices... do you want to run trinispheres, or thorn, or even move them to the side? Do you want to play maindeck wail, dismembers, equipment?
But is the difference between European Version of Miracle (4 ponder) and Losset's one (creatures) any less different?
Are Death and Taxes "free" slots less different than our ones? (Spirit of the Labyrinth, Crusader, Vryn, Serra, ecc).
It's possibile that a "better" choice emerges, but the deck performed well with many takes... at some point it becomes personal choices on the metagame you expect and your personal style (more controllish, more aggro, etc)
Right - see Nic Fit with all the different versions or even Death & Taxes with the common white based stuff can transform into Imperial Taxes (RW) which don't need different Threads. The Core Elements for Eldrazi will be the same.
---------------
Fun Fact: I saw a creative "colorless" BR Brew at our local shop yesterday. It contains Dusk Stalker(!) and Lodestone Golem for a full 20 (Smasher, Stalker, Golem, Endbringer) Big Beater package to support Mimic - notable with 8 Haste "right into your Face" Boys. Various Decks struggled against this onslaught.
TEAM MtG Berlin
If you can give me a Primer, with the options on what should and should not be in the deck, a writeup of all relevant matches you can expect to face and a future direction of the deck I will move it. (Or you could post it right into Established and skip the middleman) The thing is, right now we are at the spark stage. Granted nothing really changed for U/R Delver after that so I am happy to admit I am being too defensive, but right now there is a spread of options and of counts in decklists.
Also, you want to run Thorns, the 3Ball shuts off Eye and that seems stupid. The only deck that is really going to punish you for that switch badly is Elves and Chalice is hell on them. I guess there is DnT too, but they are going to likely lock you under your own 3Ball and fuck you if you draw wrong or just play a Vial if they draw right.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Please forgive me if I couldn't explain myself (english is not my first language): I completeley agree with you, but I don't feel adequate to write the primer myselft.
Also for the second part, I agree with you. I run thorns and given the frequency in which I even board them out I am considering moving them to sideboard. But. Someone which I really estimate as a good mud player is playing trinis in Eldrazi, and someone who was capable of doing top8 in SCG Philly also ran them, so clearly it's not as stupid as it seems, meaning, it's obviously a big downside, but someone can legitimately consider the trade-off with the upsides.
I may be able to write a primer (depending on time this week). If anyone wants to add certain content please feel free to message the information to me.
I found that running Trinisphere significantly worsened my Storm matchup just because I couldn't cast it turn one. There was a very real chance of me having to pass or play something irrelevant turn one and then get my sphere Duress'd (I then died the next turn). Thorn alleviates this issue.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
Primer or not, this is the list i've been playing now:
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Duplicant
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Dismember
It is a fairly stock list, but some explanations of my choices:
- 26 lands, no accelleration pieces. After discarding diamond relatively early, i also decided to discard SSG and gemstone cavern. Gemstone was just literally unplayable as a 2-for-1 against wasteland, and SSG made our threat density too low for my tastes for what it gave us in exchange. Upping the land count to 26, increasing the number of utility lands (wastelands, factories) make the deck a little bit slower especially in the ability to deploy a T1 lockpiece, but increase greatly the resiliance to wasteland and decrease significantly the number of times where cards get stuck in your hand. With no SSG, you also increase the number of actual cards you are playing. I think urborg is extremely important to avoid killing yourself too much vs delver lists. Delver lists , grixis especially, which run delver, dazes, anglers , pyromancers and strix are a big problem for this deck and i think are extremely well positioned in the meta, being able to beat most other delver lists (thanks to DRS/angler) and going even with eldrazi lists. 26 lands with no accelleration pieces also allow you to play both wastelands (important in the mirror, vs combo and lands) and factories (good to close out games especially with jitte), and to activate eye of ugin the most often over every other configuration of 24-25 lands + accellerators (with the exception of lists playing monolith which are just wrong imho).
SSG may still be actually right though, especially if you expect a lot of dazes.
- 1 dismember, 3 warping wail: dismember is a really good card in this deck especially as it cost justwhich you often can't use for anything else. The big problem is that 4 life AND tomb is a pretty big deal, and the MU where you want to dismember things are often teh MUs where you also care about life totals (vs anglers, delvers, and other eldrazis). I'm honestly tempted to try something else, but in colorless that's hard. The 3-1 split is the one i'm testing right now, but 2-2 or even 3-2 could be correct depending on the meta and other things. Other possibilities for removal playable in this deck are Wasteland stranglers and Bearer of Silence. The Wails are removal first, sorcery counters seconds, and jitte carrier third. I play 3 because i think that the meta will see an increase in sorcery spells, with combo moving toward SnT and tempo playing more Painful Thruths.
- 2 umezawa's jitte: this is considered part of the removal suite and why i feel comfortable with only 1 dismember. At 2 mana it can come down with a single land, and if it connect even once it will probably win you the game vs delver lists, D&T, elves and whatsnot. Having factories mean it is a much more live card vs a deck like miracle. You never want to see 2, and you often don't want to see even a single one, but it's still a card that is really powerful in mirrors and fair creature decks. At 26 lands, you often can animate and equips factories more easily than 24 or 25 land lists with moxens.
- 3 Revokers, 2 Endbringers: those are the usual 4-5 flex creature slots. Revokers usually name Tops (and get removed fast) or DRS (and often get removed just as fast) or SFM/batterskull (and i feel this is the best card you can name especially after chalice) , but they are still a source of disruption that can help you a lot when your opponents are low on answers. I play 3 because i almost never want to see 2 of those as they are good as a side-dish but not as a main source of board damage. The 2 Endbringers are something that i still don't really like and side out in most MUs, but they are a concession to the many players i've seen play the deck and found Endbringer amazing in a lot of games. I'm also expecting the meta to go toward Show and Tell more heavily and Endbringers is possibly the best maindeckable card vs SnT decks. With 26 lands, you almost never have problems playing him either.
- 3 Thorn of Amethyst instead of 4: my reasoning was that i'd rather have 1 thorn and 1 warping wail than 2 thorn in my games, especially against cards like Stoneforge mystic, show and tell, or terminus. This may not be correct, and +1 thorn -1 wail may be more correct. Time will tell if the clunkyness of having to leave mana open is worth the additional versatility and better option a wail offer over the 4th thorn.
- Sideboard choices: 6 graveyard hate cards that cost 0, 4 of which can be played on T0. Extraction would be such a good card, but in too many MUs you want both chalice and grave hate (reanimator, lands) so i don't think it's a viable alternative, especially considering lands.
The 2 duplicant are here for SnT decks which i believe will get more played as answer to both this deck and land decks, but are also a card that can be played in other slow MUs and remove possibly cards like Marit Lage, Anglers, Goyfs and KotRs, whereas Ashen Riders is unplayable out of hand. This is obviously wrong if SnT lists are more of the Omnitell variant as duplicant does nothing there.
The rest of the sideboard is pretty self-explanatory. 2 more dismember for the mirror and decks with goyfs/anglers, 2 ratchet bombs 1 more wail for delver /pyromancer decks , with added utility against combo (EtW and countering sorceries in general). 1 More revoker vs SFM/vial/top/DRS/mana critters decks, the 4th thorn vs combo and heavy non-creature spell decks.
Folks. Kudos on your excellent showing this weekend.
I have been brainstorming proper hate. I'm hoping to get some insight from your perspective. It may be helpful for you to hear from mine. Maybe.
I am thinking Ensnaring Bridge mostly because it seems to work well in D+T and dodges the vast majority of your hate. Really, just Ratchet Bomb. It is proactive, so that is kinda better against Thought-Knot Seer. Thorns make it more, but I bet you pull the Thorns against D+T. Thoughts?
Also, Hall of Gemstone seems like a strong lock. Maybe for Elves, hitting you on turn 2. You can All is Dust that one though, and it is really narrow hate.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Baleful Strix and Delve creatures are a significant problem for this deck. As well as KotR fetching stupid lands (mazes, tabernacles, wastelands etc...)
Ensnaring bridge is probably one of the best hate card. Ghostly prison is decent too. Moat is a killer but cost probably too much for D&T, more of a Miracle sb card. Back To basic too. Hall of gemstone is hilarious, but does nothing against any other deck and it's in green.
Veteran Explorer is also really annoying.
Not sure that Hall of Gemstone works on colourless mana?
Oracle text:
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player chooses a color. Until end of turn, lands tapped for mana produce mana of the chosen color instead of any other color.
Last edited by Krasman; 02-29-2016 at 06:01 PM.
?
You can't produce colorless since colorless is not a color, and as such, you can' cast half your deck with hall of gemstone down. It's still a super narrow answer.
it doesnt say you can't produce colorless. it just says COLORED mana switches to that chosen color. nothing happens to colorless.
Mmh, that seems strange indeed.
It seems everywhere I go I'm breaking worlds, literally. Pulled 2 World Breakers from the draft and beat everything down to a pulp with it. :x
I really like this list. I'd probably still try to squeeze in the Karakas into the MD, maybe cutting 1 Endbringer.
A couple of questions about the SB:
- Lightning Greaves: What are they for? Spot removal? Speed? Both?
- What's people's experience with Winter Orb? Where is it brought in?
- Oblivion Sower? Mirror tech, I assume, since it has a bigger butt than everything they have and it can ramp you even further?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
