Awful league today (╥﹏╥)
Reanimator: 0-2
Grixis Delver: 0-2
Miracles: 2-0
4 Color Delver: 0-2
Miracles: 0-2
Both delver variants seemed particularly well poised against Shardless. 2nd one was 4 color with Goyfs and True-Name postboard, which I died to.
Another poor league result:
Lands: 0-2
Zombardment: 2-1
Pack Rat Landstill Delver: 1-2 (g1 I did not play around daze because I saw basic swamp and got punished hard for it)
Miracles: 0-2 (Couldn't answer Entreat g1, couldn't answer Mentor #2 g2)
BUG Delver w/ Stifle: 1-2
MTGO metagame feeling increasingly hostile to Shardless BUG.
Here's my list, let me know if you see any glaring weaknesses:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Disfigure
1 Golgari Charm
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Notion Thief
1 Force of Will
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sylvan Library
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
Added 23rd land for all the Stifle decks and added Night of Souls' Betrayal to sideboard in place of 1 G Charm
Have the Delver decks been packing extra grinding tools (Planeswalkers, Painful Truths, etc.) to fight you, or have you just been gettimg Tempoed out? The only thing in your list that I think is worth changing is Notion Theif, which I think is horrible and better as nearly anything else.Originally Posted by ironclad8690
The standstill pack rat deck was playing Jace, but more often than not it feels like a Gurmag Angler/Young Pyromancer will get there before i can find one of the narrow answers to such cards. I punted away a game against BUG because I didn't realize Deluge was like burn where it counts it's own card type for state based effects, so i did throw away that match essentially.
Gurmag/Goyf based decks at least you have strix, but many Delvers are playing red for bolt and pyroblast, and Snapcaster mage has been doing work as well.
4-1'ed my first league of the year.
W: 2-1 vs Eldrazi
W: 2-1 vs Shardless Mirror (should've been 2-0 but I thought it would be fun to misclick and kill myself with Sylvan Library)
W: 2-1 vs Eldrazi
L: 1-2 vs Lands
W: 2-1 vs Eldrazi
I've been loathe to go up to 3 wastelands but if all I'm gonna do is play against that stupid eldrazi deck then I think I have to. Good thing getting Goyf to a 5-6 is comically easy against that deck and then they can just never beat it. Other all-star votes go to robot owl and abrupt decay (nice 8/8 endless one).
ironclad, our lists are almost the same except maindeck I'm -1 Polluted Delta -1 Thoughtseize +1 FoW +1 Sylvan Library and sideboard I'm -1 Nihil Spellbomb -1 FoW -1 Disfigure +1 Surgical Extraction +1 Toxic Deluge +1 Arcane Laboratory
From nothing came teeth.
Short of shaving some of your MD discard for removal I'm not sure if there's a whole lot you can do. Grixis Delver is unfortunately about 50/50 in my experience, and while there are cards you can add to improve Delver matchups, but you hurt your matchups against combo somewhat to do that.
If you want to try it, I think -2 Hymn, +1-2 Dimir Charm, +0-1 Baleful Strix will improve the matchup. I can't guarantee success, and moving the second Deluge to the main is also arguably correct, but short of some really strange changes like MD'ing Golgari Charm or Go for the Throat there isn't much you can do to change the dynamics of that matchup in my experience.
Finally got the elusive 5-0
Merfolk: 2-1
Eldrazi: 2-0
Eldrazi: 2-1
Miracles: 2-0
Elves: 2-0
Only streamed the last 4 though.
List was same list I played at the SCG Classic in Vegas. I went back to MM sideboard, but didn't bring em in ever. Most boarded cards remain Disfigure and Golgari Charm.
Curious why you wouldn't bring meddling mage in against elves.
Postboard they cut some cards from both of the combo plans to try to grind instead, I find that even when you name natural order/glimpse/abrupt decay MM just doesn't do enough in the matchup. Very possible I could be wrong.
Congratulations to Alain Martin for winning the Bazaar of Moxen with BUG Cascade!
Beat the mirror, eldrazi, and team america in the top 8 dodging two lands decks
Am I horribly incompetent and cannot find the decklists or are they not up yet?
Decklists not up, but Top 8 profile is.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
played at BoM Madrid as well with Shardless, finally went 5-3 and placed 33rd. My Matchups were as following
#1: Food Chain 2-1
#2: Death´n´Taxes 2-0 (Cant remember his name for sure, but he looks like the Top 8 guy in the image)
#3: Lands 0-2 (against Tom Kellocks who went Top 8)
#4: TES 0-2
#5: Eldrazi 2-0
#6: TES 2-1
#7: BUG Delver 1-2
#8: ANT 2-1
This was my list: http://deckstats.net/deck-9279481-e0...14465ee46.html
Not going to do a full report, but some comments:
Food Chain - Round 1 Game 2 against Food Chain: Arcane Laboratory ran away with the game, i found 2 Goyfs while i was far behind on hand cards cause i got hit by a misdirected Hymn and my Opponent had a Sylvan library + Food Chain in play - Anyway the Cardadvantage came down to nothing because the laboratory Shut down slamming his hand and denied his combo
Death´n´Taxes - Round 2 Game 1: My Opponent had a rather weird draw. I suspended Vision T1 on the play, he started with Mother of runes which got decayed. His T2 Followup was a Stoneforge Mystic which got forced pitching Strix, because i had no anwser either for Stoneforge or Batterskull. From this Point on he drew the full playset Mother of runes, 3 Thalias and some Swords to plowshares. My Goyfs decided to work in the fields, but DRS Activations pinged him to death. Game 2 was pure annihalation, T1 DRS into T2 Hymn To Tourach and Dread of Night against his mother of runes he played on T2 alongside his second vial - he never found a way back into the game.
Lands - Round 3: Yeah, Lands happening - do i have to say more? I honestly gave up upon the Matchup because even with a ton of hate it wont become good. I tried my best but it wasnt meant to be. At least it helped raising my Opp Score
TES - Round 4: I lose the dice Roll and get Rekt Turn 2 without any Force. Game 2 I couldnt find Force as well, but stick to thoughtseize plus arcane laboratory. Brainstorm hides the relevant Cards, he goes off on Turn 2 again => Rekt
Eldrazi - Round 5: G1 was superclose, i managed to handle 3 Smashers and 1 Thoughtknot-Seer otd with Discard, Goyf and lili, he followed up with Dismember Goyf and Endbringer, but luckily i was able to find a maelstrom Pulse of the Top to take care of it. G2 He Opened up with City of Traitors and Chaliced for 1, which was annoying but anything but the end. Playing Strix, Decaying his Chalice and brainstorming into all the other Pieces he soon concedes.
TES - round 6: I win the Dice Roll, Thoghtseize, Force and finally a Jace Lock take G1. G2 I Hymn my Opponent, Force his BS and Surgical his Burning Wish. Looking at his library i am assured there is no tendrils main, only empty the warrens. I kept in Deluge, Pulse and added the engineered Plague as well. I started digging for an anwser for the Goblins while a Shardless Agent hits him. Just in time he manages to provide 12 Goblins and i never manage to find an anwser. Game 3 he went all in on Turn 1 but i have the Force of will and he can never recover.
BUG Delver - Round 7: Game 1 i went through a Delver of Secrets and the whole playset of Tarmogoyf, Mealstrom Pulse taking down 2 of them i stabilize at 3 Life and run away with the game. G2 he opens op with DRS into Turn 2 Hymn plus Wasteland and its over pretty quick. G3 i am able to decay his first Shaman, Engineered Plague naming Mage shuts down Delver and Dark confidant but sadly he drew just goyfs plus Liliana and i cant stabilize. Plague Looks narrow but it served me well against BUG delver in other tournaments and can anwser TNN if neccesary.
ANT - Round 8: He quickly wins Game 1 and Postboard i drown him in hate. Chill won me game 2 because he was on the past in flames plan, but he crippled on mana. G3 he opens up with Duress, duress, therapy and eats my whole hand away which consisted of Double Force, Agent, Lili, Strix, Hymn and one land. I forced the first Duress but it was just too much disruption. On the other hand he doesnt get anything going for several turns as well. Playing more or less of the Top i draw a Brainstorm, find 2 more lands a Surgical Extraction. I wait for possible Action on his Turn holding the Surgical, but he just passes. EoT i feel like i have to use the surgical on myself to break the BS lock and get rewarded by drawing shardless Agent, which cascades into Null Rod, shutting down half of his hand. From there on i put more and more lock pieces together and finally he concedes to Null Rod, Nihil Spellbomb and 3 hand cards inlcuding force of will plus Pitchcard while the Agent keeps hitting.
Yeah, and here i am not 100% happy with the result, but didnt feel like like losing due to major punts so im ok with it. Yeah, so far my 2 cents
@janchu88: Not a bad result, congrats!
Just finished up my first legacy league 4-1, wanted to give a quick write-up and get some sideboarding advice since you guys have lots of great opinions! Full list in my sig, but it's a fairly stock discardless MD list with Meddling Mage/discard SB plan.
Round 1: BUG Control (2-1)
Not 100% sure what this guy's list was, it was a standard BUG list with Shaman, Goyf, TS/Duress, but I never saw a Delver or Shardless Agent. No PW's either. It had Daze though, so I figure it was some tempo-ish list. Maybe just didn't find any delvers? Either way, it was exactly like you'd expect it to go. Disadvantaged early, but CA from Visions and Toxic Deluge pulled it out in the long game. Fetched out the two basics early to play around wastelands.
>>Sideboard: +2 Disfigure, +3 Thoughtseize, -4 Force, -1 Jace
Round 2: Mentor Miracles (0-2)
I'm usually pretty confident in this matchup, but this guy had some really nutty draws. Game one he found 4 Swords and a Snapcaster in his first 12 cards along with a T1 top. So much for running out one Goyf at a time. He eventually gets a Mentor on board and has the countermagic for the Maelstrom Pulse and the Deluge. Game 2 was a little closer, an early Null Rod shut down his top and he struggled to get any deck manipulation. Didn't matter...hit a Terminus the turn after I ran out a DRS and a Goyf (he had 2 cards in hand) and the Entreat the turn after with Force backup for 5 angels. Not reading too much into it, the deck is very well set up to handle Miracles and sometimes you just get a little unlucky with the draws.
>>Sideboard: +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Null Rod, +1 Pithing Needle, -3 Baleful Strix
Round 3: Grixis Delver (2-1)
Some good games here but I don't have a lot of notes on the games, a lot of people are saying this matchup is 50/50 but with the "fair" (discardless) MD setup it feels 55/45ish. Toxic Deluge and Maelstrom Pulse are houses here, just be sure to run out as many cards as you can as fast as you can- Cabal Therapy is a ridiculous card, especially in this deck. Just overload on removal and you'll be fine.
>>Sideboard: +2 Disfigure, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Leyline of the Void, -4 Force (I could also see cutting a Jace or two and leaving some number of Force in, but haven't test it enough. Any opinions here?)
Round 4: Reanimator Storm (2-1)
This deck is still, at it's core, a reanimator deck- the Storm package just allows it to win without combat steps. Lost G1 to a T2 Griselbrand -> draw 14 and tendrils for lethal. G2 I had the T1 Grafdigger's into Meddling Mage on Tendrils. The deck packs Firestorm for removal, so be careful about overextending multiple Mages into it. Null Rod may be a bit narrow, but it still shuts down Petals. Pulse and Deluge are also still fine for picking off a Griselbrand. G3 I had the T0 Leyline of the Void with 2 Mages on Firestorm -> Tendrils. Because this deck still operates around one big creature, Lili and Jace still seem fine for sac/bounce capabilities.
>>Sideboard: +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Leyline of the Void, +4 Meddling Mage, +1 Null Rod, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Savannah, +3 Thoughtseize, -4 Tarmogoyf, -4 Abrupt Decay, -3 Ancestral Vision, -1 Forest
Round 5: Enchantress (2-1)
I haven't played too many games against this deck, but it doesn't seem impossible. Deluge still allows you to kill off their shrouded Enchantress and Maelstrom Pulse can lead to some big plays because of the number of 4-ofs in their lists. Won a fairly easy G1 due to his flooding out without a card draw source. G2 he got an early RiP out and slammed the Helm the next turn, which I was able to Force. He eventually got a big turn which ended up flooding the field with pillow fort enchants and then hardcast an Emrakul off a Serra Sanctum. G3 was closer, but he committed to an early Elephant Grass which ended up taxing him more than me, since I had the mana to pay for Agent beats and used DRS to ping him. I think the trick with this matchup is to shut down the card draw, waste the Sanctums, and avoid losing to the Helm/RiP combo. Meddling Mage was decent here, but they run a lot of O-Ring type enchants. They were good in a pinch, but I'm not 100% sure they're right. I ended up cutting Goyfs because I saw 3 RiPs G2. At worst, Mage is a 2/2 that ignores GYs, so it seemed ok.
>>Sideboard: +1 Golgari Charm, +4 Meddling Mage, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Savannah, +3 Thoughtseize, -3 Baleful Strix, -1 Forest, -4 Tarmogoyf, -2 Visions
Any comments/feedback/questions welcome! I plan on playing in the leagues fairly regularly, so I can keep doing these write-ups every week(ish) or so, if there's interest. Overall I like this setup a lot, I might trade one Strix for a Sylvan Library- it's too good not to play. Strix is a fine card, but 3 seems maybe 1 too many.
I've been wanting to build Shardless Bug and am in the process of obtaining most of the pieces, but in terms of duals, I only have 4 Tropicals, 2 Bayous and 2 Underground Seas. Could I compromise and run 2 Undergrounds and raise the number of Tropicals, or is the third Underground Sea absolutely imperative?
I want to focus on getting Goyfs and stuff first before the 3rd Underground Sea, as then I can at least play with the deck before I get the third Underground. Is this wise?
You can play a split like this:
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
9-10 Fethclands
X Wasteland
X Creeping Tar Pit
And you should be fine. You might end up with some uncastable Hymns occasionally, but I wouldn't let that stop you from playing the deck. Also, if you have 1 Watery Grave that would probably be fine in the meantime.
In other news, I 5-0'd a league run this morning with this list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard:
2 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Meddling Mage
1 Scrubland
1 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Force of Will
BUG Delver: 2-0
In: 2 Disfigure, 1 Sylvan Library
Out: 3 Force of Will
Elves: 2-0
In: 2 Disfigure, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Grafdigger's Cage
Out: 1 Liliana of the Veil, 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Tarmogoyf, 1 Baleful Strix
Tezzerator: 2-0
In: 1 Null Rod, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Sylvan Library
Out: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Force of Will
Eldrazi: 2-0 (G1 stabilized at 3, had to deluge for 2 down to 1, then Lili and Creeping Tar Pit get there, thank goodness he doesn't topdeck a Reality Smasher)
In: 2 Disfigure, 1 Sylvan Library
Out: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Force of Will
Eldrazi: 2-1 (Game 2 lost to Reality Smasher on last possible turn before I attack for lethal)
In: 2 Disfigure, 1 Sylvan Library
Out: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Force of Will
I am boarding out Thoughtseize a lot, but it is just because SB cards are specifically better, not that Thoughtseize is bad. I still love Thoughtseize game 1 against most decks.
it looks like your plans to defeat elves are more based on your removal suite, and to some success it seems, but im wondering why not treat it like a full combo match and go full forces and discard. just for the sake of discussion what do you think of this sideboard using your decklist.
in: 2 disfigure 2 golgari 1 nosb 1 grafdiggers 1 fow 1 scrubland 3 meddling mage (no, glimpse, gsz, abrupt)
out: 2 jace 3 ancestral 1 swamp 2 baleful strix 1 liliana 2 tarmogoyf
jace and ancestral seem too slow as is nosb but night is back breaking if were able to make it that far so i back it. baleful strix doesnt seem to do anything except get in the way of your cascades, especially lackluster if youre trying to stick a nosb. pithing needle doesnt affect the board in a way that advances our board position although i do think its helpful to shut off symbiote or ranger i guess i could go either way. liliana seems bad since if you want to minus her they probably have a ton of elves and plusing her doesnt seem better than just being able to thoughtseize or hymn, i might take her completely out and add the last thoughtseize. meddling mage interrupts their plan and gives you a body, seems pretty good. 4th fow against combo seems important.
if you disagree please tell me why!
if you treat them like a combo deck, they grind you out with ease, thats the problem
depending on how much hate you have, boarding out some tarmogoyfs is ok, cause it is anything but good in the matchup. They have DRS they can activate multiple times per turn and many lists have Scavenging Ooze. And even if they dont, Tarmogoyf gets chump blocked to Oblivion. Testing Team America right now, i realized how important some Evasion is in this Matchup. If You play Jitte, definetely keep in Strix for example, except for Decay and Reclamation Sage, which are already having a hard time, they dont handle it very well
Janchu is correct, my reasoning is that Elves usually boards out some of their combo (to try and blank the extra discard and forces). Force of Will is great when it hits Natural Order, but terrible when you have to use it on a Deathrite Shaman or pretty much any other creature besides Craterhoof Behemoth. Same goes for Discard, which Hymn can be fine if it hits two elves, but thoughtseize is mostly terrible. If they go on the "aggro" or "midrange" rout postboard you definitely just want to play to the board, and the easiest way to win is by playing a million removal spells. Eventually you will set up Grafdigger's/Goyf/Night of Souls' and then just go to town with your remaining creatures.
I leave Strix in to deal with Scavenging Ooze and sometimes Nettle Sentinel (if they are on the attack for 2 plan), which I have definitely lost to before postboard from Elves simply because I had boarded more answers for the combo side of their deck. Postboard you want to be able to handle Ooze, a million 1/1s, still have a little countermagic and discard for the combo just in case, and at least a few bombs that put them on the back foot (Night of Souls' Betrayal, Tarmogoyf, Grafdigger's Cage, Liliana is good once they have been swept because it usually keeps their hand and board low when we put them in topdeck mode). Jace however is too slow.
As far as Ancestral Vision, I just want to draw more removal if things have gone my way early.
I will also add that my sideboarding plan changes pretty frequently and I am almost never sure if what I am doing is "right", it is one of the most challenging aspects of the game.
You cand try clique in your sb, its not Bad against elves either though its a nonbo with nosb
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
