Death and Taxes (Mono-white)Originally Posted by caprino
If they don't have Cataclysm, or a nut draw of denial vs a bad draw from me, this matchup is basically a cakewalk. Needle stops Wasteland or Vial. Rishadan Port is pretty laughable aside from the first turn or two and then we just go way over the top of them. Cataclysm hurts a lot though. Warping Wail helps with that, as prior to that existing, I wouldn't bring in countermagic for this matchup so would be stone-cold dead to Cataclysm. Warping Wail is a house (on paper) vs this matchup, although I have yet to actually play the matchup since putting Wails in. It kills almost anything in their deck, counters Cataclysm or just provides a blocker/slight ramp.
Delver
I don't find these matchups to be all that bad. I haven't played against it nearly as much lately though. RUG Delver can be somewhat rough, especially if they're splashing Black since DRS gets around Glacial Chasm and Abrupt Decay can screw up your needles. BUG is really rough with Hymns, but winnable. UWR Delver is a lot faster, but they're all winnable matchups as long as you can protect for wasteland. You just have to be careful with timing and sequencing to get around Dazes.
Wasteland
Pithing Needle. Crop Rotation also helps against this, but I love Pithing Needle.
Eldrazi Stompy
This deck is why I think I'm switching to Bant so I have access to Terminus and Swords to Plowshares. This matchup is just really rough. Chalice doesn't hurt so much but they can put in way too much damage too quickly and that plus Wasteland just really fucks you up unless you can land an early titan off Show and Tell, or Platinum Emperion which most configurations won't be able to deal with aside from a slow ticking Ratchet Bomb which gives you loads of time. My friend is running Duplicant though as super awesome tech which totally bungs that plan (he runs it largely for Show and Tell in general).
Just don't watch my broadcast from yesterday, because I was awful :P
I'm still brewing and will likely be streaming tonight, tomorrow or both. I would love to find room for Pithing Needle and/or Warping Wail in my brews. It's likely that the fact that I'm wishing I had both implies they should be in any configuration, but I don't let such facts get in the way of my brewing :P
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
What are you brewing with currently if I may ask. I love discussing and contemplating new ideas.
Have you played this matchup? D+T is one of your worst matchups. Waste/port/revoker/thalia wreck you.
I've played this matchup a number of times, it's nowhere close to my worst matchups. Storm, OmniTell, Eldrazi, Elves are my worst matchups.
For whatever caveat, I play UG. Show and Tell makes a big difference, I guess. Maybe the Monogreen builds have more trouble since they lean heavily on Candle.
I'm probably something like 5-1 vs death and taxes with gw. I think the UG version is tough for DnT as well since show and tell primeval titan is miserable.
Streaming right now with a different list. I wasn't too impressed with my last two brews, but I can PM them to you after I'm done if you're interested. Right now I'm playing a brew that hinges on Crucible of Worlds.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
Sounds sweet. I've been trying to find a use for crucible. I recently had it in the mud list I posted on the last page or the page before that for replaying posts or using sactum of ugin since chaining threats just wins the game.
I think I've hit on a brew that at least has a bit of promise. I was able to beat up on Grixis, which normally gives me some problems. There's still a little wiggle room here, and I'll get into it, but the list really plays off synergies.
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Elephant Grass
4 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
7 Snow-Covered Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
1 Wastes
1 Windswept Heath
2 Karn Liberated
SIDEBOARD
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Krosan Grip
3 Spatial Contortion
3 Surgical Extraction
In my previous (terrible) brew, I really enjoyed the interaction between Crucible and Oracle. I was running lifegain effects, but the problem with those is that they don't really do anything by themselves, and while Courser of Kruphix is a solid enough body, it doesn't do enough to accelerate you. I put together this list to better capitalize on the interaction. Now you can do powerful things like fetch repeatedly to constantly get new cards with Top, recycle binned Cloudposts or whatever you sacrifice with Crop Rotation, and even be the same asshole everyone else is and Wasteland them, which comes with the added bonus of providing an instant-speed answer to Lands. Oracle and Crucible together also equal happy Glacial Chasm times, and if you have a Glimmerpost to gain you life, it should be virtually impossible to die to damage or Deathrite Shaman. The interaction also (slightly) compensates for no Needle effects, and finally, it enables an alternate win condition in Titania.
Snow-Covered Forests are for no other reason than to make people respect the possibility of Dark Depths. The fetches are diversified for the same reason. Substitutes are fine if you don't want to go that far.
Elephant Grass is the hedge against idiot swarms, and combined with Tabernacle is a reasonable way to tie up resources. True, you can still die to a single Infect creature, but you're not really any more vulnerable to it than you would have been if you were relying on Maze of Ith.
As he so often is, Karn is the question mark. The deck really wants some way to deal with that occasional problem permanent that Ulamog can't deal with quickly enough, and with the increased reliance on colored permanents, All is Dust and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon are considerably less ideal. There aren't too many options besides Karn in mono-green, but at least Karn also doubles as his own win condition.
Regardless, I think this configuration has some promise. It's possible Forcefield is a better substitute for Elephant Grass, but regardless I think there is some potential here: Crucible and Oracle combined are extremely powerful.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
This deck can definitely hold its own. I play a Colorless Green build. Playing around Wasteland is something you just learn to deal with. (It's one reason I don't skimp on the full 4x Crop Rotation.)
Death & Taxes is pretty even to slightly favorable. Pithing Needle stops Wasteland, and they have no countermagic for Crop Rotation if you don't have Needle. Warping Wail hits almost every creature they have. All Is Dust/Ugin wrecks them. Port is annoying, but you can outclass it with a single Candelabra.
Delver isn't too bad. BUG is probably the least favorable version because they have Abrupt Decay for Needle, but it's still a decent matchup. Warping Wail improves all but RUG, which has no real targets besides unflipped Delver.
Eldrazi is not a favorable matchup so far, but a lot of people on this forum have been working on ideas to deal with it. I've been very impressed with Silent Arbiter so far (which has also been great in many other matchups). If you can drop Needle under Chalice, Maze has been particularly excellent here too.
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Since this thread has been getting a large volume of mono green focus, here is my U/G list I have been winning extensively with:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [M10] Forest (1)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
3 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [OGW] Warping Wail
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
3 [GP] Repeal
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [TSP] Trickbind
I tried TKS main, but I found I was most after sideboard cards (moon, null rod, cataclysms), and the lilliana, combo pieces, hate cards were most superficial wants.
My test group has been using SoI rules for repeal, and found the change not terrible.
Oh man, Ancient Tomb is a fantastic idea that I never even considered. The number of times I've wanted to cast a T1 Warping Wail and couldn't is insane. It also lets you transition into something closer to a dedicated S&T deck as you can reasonably expect to cast T2 S&T an non-negligible percecntage of games (also why I assume you upped the number of S&T to 4 and added an extra Emperion. Great list :-)
Edit: is 27 land (plus another 3 in expedition map) not a tad high? Are you finding trouble with getting flooded out at all? Also, what prompted your switch from flusterstorm to swan song?
I would assume because swan song counters more types of spells and repeal can bounce the token for U.
This is kind of where I'm at right now. The sideboard is kindof meh but I really do like the ancient tombs for the snt gameplan
// Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Show and Tell
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Warping Wail
//Sideboard
//Creatures
3 Thought-Knot Seer
//Lands
1 Wasteland
//Spells
2 Flusterstorm
3 Krosan Grip
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Swan Song
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
-1 Tabernacle -1 warping wail -1 Swan Song +3 Thought-Knot Seer
I like to leave the trinket mage pithing needle package mainboard as it makes us much stronger against wasteland. The one wasteland sideboard is mostly for Eldrazi.
Last edited by Cyborg; 03-13-2016 at 11:42 PM.
I play the mono G turbo eldrazi and would like to have some input on main boarding bayou (also have bojuka bog main) and side boarding 4 abrupt decays. Abrupt decay deals with chalice on 1, which destroys mono G's game plan, also it deals with plenty other threats that have been listed billions of times on abruptdecay.com. I have been having some troubles against Eldrazi aggro and chalice on 1, which is why I am asking. Thanks.
It is definitely a viable plan. I played around with a bg build for a while so I had post board access to discard and mainboard pernicious deeds and deathrite shamans. I believe rock lee tested something similar to that extent at least with deathrite. It was ok, not the best of builds but I did have a lot of fun with it.
I've been grinding on colorless mono green and have been running ratchet bomb to nuke chalice. It can still be searched up with ancient stirrings.
I used to run ratchet bomb (mostly for crazy pyro/mentor tokens) it is just a bit too slow against Eldrazi Aggro. By the time you get rid of the chalice they have a dominant board presence. Not saying that ratchet bomb is bad and I may go back to it, I just was wondering if there were better solutions out there. Thank you for your timely and kind reply.
If you're using it to nuke chalice it is likely that you won't be able to have stirrings dig out bomb unless you are doing it preemptively and on the play.
Personally if I'm really that worried about chalice I am going to bring in krosan grip. Otherwise I want to focus on ramp and getting a primeval titan to fend off the eldrazi aggressors. I'm not that familiar with the match up as I haven't played it yet. But I am very curious about other people's experience so I have some idea of what to expect
I've been playing against Eldrazi at least once a tournament. Its not that bad of a matchup by my experience; maze and candelabra is pretty hard to beat. Also play 2 dismember on the side. Silent arbiter makes it pretty tough for them also.
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