Thanks for the answer, I'll also test some esper builds on mtgo to have a better view of the different builds
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I agree that in general Esper is currently better than UWR. UWR has a lot more trouble with combo, but is better vs miracles, which is one of esper's worst match ups imo (out of common match ups that is. We're never beating 12 post in a million years, but luckily no one plays it). The miracles match up almost always comes down to JTMS, and they have red blasts, while we do not.
Below is my current list, although for my next league run through I think I'm going to cut the clique in the main for a third TNN and two of the meddling mages from the sb for a RIP and surgical extraction.
I've been crushing eldrazi in league play, 6-0 I think, so I wouldn't sweat that match up. They usually can't beat a single SFM, and on the occasion they do then having 3 supreme verdicts and 3 EE's after SB is tough for them.
Planeswalker (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (9)
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Sorcery (9)
1 Council's Judgment
2 Ponder
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Thoughtseize
Instant (15)
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Esper Charm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifact (3)
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Land (22)
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
3 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Meddling Mage
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Perish
2 Pithing Needle
I've just recently started playing the one of esper charm, but so far I've liked it. I had up to two painful truths main deck and they didn't really work out. Sometimes charm is dead, but it's at least a blue card for FOW, which is the same reason I don't play lingering souls.
Thx for the esper list I'll try to run some leagues with that, I've seen a lot of eldrazis on mtgo lately. Esper charm seems like a good inclusion for versatility
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So I hadn't played Magic for a couple of months but decided to go play some Legacy last night. I had about 30 minutes when I got home to build a deck before leaving, so decided to mash up the D&T and Landstill decks that I had lying around into this (the sideboard is kinda random; just what I had when I looked through boxes!):
3 underground sea
3 tundra
1 scrublands
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 karakas
1 creeping tar pit
2 island
2 plains
1 swamp
4 stoneforge mystic
2 true-name nemesis
2 snapcaster mage
1 vendilion clique
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 engineered explosives
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
4 thoughtseize
2 council's judgment
1 spell pierce
1 ponder
1 supreme verdict
1 counterspell
1 esper charm
SB
2 containment priest
2 perish
2 rest in peace
2 flusterstorm
1 dread of night
1 disenchant
1 vendilion clique
1 surgical
1 extirpate
1 darkblast
1 ??? (can't remember!)
Store meta tends to be midrangey decks and combo decks, so figured this'd be reasonable. Anyway, the deck really surprised me with its power and resilience.
Round 1 vs Storm
I always play against this gentleman and he usually beats me!
Game 1
I thoughtseized him, he had enough for a small Empty but couldn't threaten a lethal tendrils. He greedily ends up going for the small empty for 8 goblins despite knowing I was holding Stoneforge because he Probed, so I just put a Batterskull into play and he suddenly can't kill me.
Game 2
I draw both flusterstorms, pierce, force and double Snapcaster. He draws 4 Infernal Tutors this game but doesn't really get anywhere with them. I extirpate his Burning Wishes and he concedes.
Round 2 vs Miracles
Game 1
My opponent is mana screwed and just tops for a few turns. I have a Jace ticking up and I thoughtseize away his Venser. He tries to dig for presumably a REB but doesn't find it so we move on.
Game 2
My opponent and I trade back and forth for a bit but he has active Karakas and Clique/Venser after Wear and/or Tearing my Batterskull so I decide to scoop to get more time for g3.
Game 3
I thoughtseize and my opponent doesn't have a lot of gas; unfortunately he topdecks Counterbalance on turn 2 and it turns out to be quite good. He hits my Stoneforge and Clique on it so I am a little threat-light. I disenchant the Counterbalance but by that point he has Clique, double Snapcaster and I can't really race.
Round 3 vs UR Landstill
Game 1
I'm screwed and my opponent is flooded. I make a TNN with a Jitte on it and that's basically game.
Game 2
I feel OK about this game but I thoughtseize my opponent and find multiple Price of Progress (?!?!!). He ends up racing me by finishing me off with double Price. Suffice to say I prioritised basics for game 3...
Game 3
We go back and forth but I have the Council's Judgment for his TNN and the Force for his Force on my TNN. It turns out TNN is really good against this deck.
2-1 overall, was fun playing the deck. I feel like I need an Academy Ruins or something to have long game in control mirrors. Does anyone itt have experience playing this deck as well as Miracles? I'd love for someone experienced to share their take on what sort of matchups this deck is better/worse in relative to Miracles.
How was the EE main? My list is very similar to yours but I run a SoFaI main and EE in the board since I love the sword but have been considering swapping them.Originally Posted by cdnza
It wasn't relevant in any of the games I played. That said, 3 matches isn't much to make a decision based off.
It looks like your list is missing 3 cards, there aren't any JTMS listed so I'm assuming some number of those?
I personally love EE main deck. There are a lot of cards I would cut first. There are not a lot of match ups it's dead, and it can really save us from a lot of hard to deal with cards. Even places where you might think it's bad it's been decent for me. Sometimes after you thought seize a storm player they will play out some zero mana artifacts before the turn they try to go off, EE on 0 has won me some number of games this way. Liliana, a well timed blood moon or a counter balance to name a few. Also it's often a 2 for 1 against creature decks.
I posted this in the Rock thread - and then realized... it's probably better suited here. Although, I always think Blade Control as UWx. However, you're the guys that play SFM - so I figure I'll get all the help I can get!
"I was trying to decide between Rock and Nic Fit strategies as a new legacy player. I'm mostly a modern player (Abzan Company/Abzan Midrange) - so the colour combination was able to transition out of. I figured that I wouldn't be buying the BUG lands anytime soon... So, I was looking at my favourite colours and accepting the weakness to combo. Here's what I'll be running with tonight and probably losing every match with.
22 Lands
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
Spells:
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Council's Judgment
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Lingering Souls
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution
Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Siege Rhino
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Walker:
3 Liliana of the Veil
Equip:
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
2 Choke
2 Containment Priest
2 Duress
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Painful Truths
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Zealous Persecution
My other thought (which I wouldn't be able to do tonight was adding bob back into the deck. So -1 Rhino, 1 Library, -1 Persecution, +3 Bob).
Any advice for a first time legacy player :)"
Absolutely correct, 3 Jaces. Also, I checked the final sideboard card and it was a Toxic Deluge. I probably went a bit overboard on cards to board in against creature decks but that was the meta I was expecting.
Has anyone considered playing Standstill in this deck again lately?
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Hello everybody, I'm currently planning on building some Stoneblade strategy. Also, my heart was stolen by Deathrite Shaman and I was wondering if Deathblade with Shamans is at least as good as some Esper strategies without it. Is there anybody willing to introduce me to the variants of the deck?
In my experience Deathblade is a more all-in strategy as opposed to Esper's more controlling playstyle, both are good but Deathblade seems to be more popular in the bigger tournaments. Also Deathblade has a much more fragile mana base due to the green splash for DRS and Abrupt Decay. I personally haven't played it much despite my love for DRS and I'm sure some other people can give more input but that's my 2 cents.
Thanks for the info. What are the main diffrences regarding matchups between Deathblade and Esper variants?
Made a new list today, based on the one I ran last week. Going to see how this goes.
lands
1x Academy Ruins
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Karakas
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
critters
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x True-Name Nemesis
1x Vendilion Clique
spellz
4x Brainstorm
2x Council's Judgment
1x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Lingering Souls
1x Ponder
1x Spell Pierce
1x Supreme Verdict
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Thoughtseize
others
1x Batterskull
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Umezawa's Jitte
sb
1x Containment Priest
1x Darkblast
1x Disenchant
1x Extirpate
2x Flusterstorm
1x Lingering Souls
1x Perish
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Peace
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vendilion Clique
Has anyone been trying the Bant Stoneblade list that's been popping up on the MTGO Leagues?
I gave it a whirl and it's pretty fun. It seems to eat Delver decks alive. Tons of threats in the deck, and I really like DRS and Noble doubling as both ramp and threats. KotR is pretty brutal too.
Yes. Suprisingly it's been mentioned in the Bant thread.
Oops, I never check that thread. I wasn't sure if it was going to be talked about here because it's a stoneblade deck, or elsewhere.
Ill reply to you in The Rock thread when I get back to my computer.
I'm still on Jeskai Blade and I prefer it over Esper primarily due to better Miracles matchup. I'm testing Gideon, Ally of Zendikar as I've always wanted a "trump" card from the sb for the durdly, grindy matchups like Shardless, Miracles, Maverick, etc. as TNN only takes us so far nowadays. Gideon can't be REBed, he makes 2/2 tokens which matters vs sb hate like Zealous Persecution, Golgari Charm, Night of Souls Betrayal, etc, and his anthem means that our team of */1 dudes won't die to the aforementioned spells. He can also swing and kill a +5 Jace or +4 Liliana while dodging stuff like Verdict, Liliana sac, Toxic Deluge, other sorcery speed dude hate spells, etc.
Main
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council’s Judgment
4 Ponder
1 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Plateau
2 Plains
3 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
Side
1 Blood Moon
1 Pyroclasm
3 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
Last edited by Arsenal; 04-07-2016 at 10:56 AM.
There was a Jeskai Stoneblade list (very traditional looking) that placed 10th at the most recent SCG Baltimore: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=100767
He's running Nahiri, the Lithomancer in the sb, presumably as a white walker trump for the grindy matchups. This is similar to the sb Gideon, Ally of Zendikar I'm currently running, although I do plan on testing Nahiri at some point.
Re: Nahri, I see Jeskai lists running maindeck and/or sideboard EE, although very few run Academy Ruins. This is slightly odd as virtually every Esper Stoneblade list I see running maindeck and/or sideboard EE will ALWAYS run Academy Ruins. Seeing as Academy Ruins helps recur discarded/destroyed artifacts in those long grinder matches, why doesn't Jeskai run this land? It basically does half of what Nahiri does and gives us a more controlling path to take (recur EE is devastating) at the cost of 1 mana slot. Most Jeskai lists are basically UW with ultra light red splash for Bolt and/or REB, so 1 land doesn't seem like it would tip the balance or anything. Thoughts?
I started with a Nahiri and about a month ago I also added a Gideon. They are both great versus miracles and shardless bug, I think I have a winning record or at least close to it against those decks since making that change (I also changed the way I sideboard vs miracles, and that has helped as well). I side them both in vs pretty much any deck running discard that isn't combo.
On the topic of academy, I have run it in the past, and have considered it at times, but it feels like there are too many wastelands in the online metagame to run any non-essential lands right now. I even recently cut creeping tarpit due to coming into play tapped being such a miserable top deck, AR producing colorless is similar. It basically takes up a spell slot that is probably never being used before around turn 6.
This is my current list, except that I have once again cut the esper charm for a third ponder. Also a concession to all of the wastelands running around. Charm was great, except that it's difficult to cast. Oh, and the vindicate in the board is a second councli's judgement. Really just comes down to wanting to be able to kill lands or emrakul / prgenitus / opposing TNN.
Creatures (10)
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells (26)
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Counterspell
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgment
1 Esper Charm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
Lands (22)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
3 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
1 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Vindicate
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
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