Mono-green decks lack a resource-light win condition. Without S&T, the only way to get Titan or Eldrazi in play is to actually cast them which can be difficult against decks that are devoted to destroying your resources (e.g. Pox, some draws from Shardless). Stage/Depths requires less setup and can win on the spot, so it can steal games that would be tough otherwise.Originally Posted by cherson
That being said, I used to play the combo but recently cut Dark Depths entirely because it was unreliable against most decks where I wanted it (Shardless has Jace and Strix, Delver has Delver). Ironically, I lost a game against Pox at GP DC last weekend that I would have won if Depths had been in the deck. An additional factor for me was the prevalence of Lands in my meta, against which having Depths is a liability.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
I agree, I don't like so much mage......but it's blue, has cmc 3 (we have only S&T with that cmc for kozi) and can find explosives, that are very important to clean the board. Pithing needle singleton is useless probably, yes, getting it with a mage is too slow. Candelabra/sensei are always useful, mid and late game also.
I'd play 4 sensei and 3 needle, like I do in the ugw version, but I need blue cards for force, that's why I have 3 ponder and 3 trickbind. There is no room for other artifacts :(.
I'm thinking about giving Dark Depths a chance, at least as a SB option. People who have experience using Depths: what matchups would you bring it in for?
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There is a duals tournament tomorrow at my LGS (usually 40-50 people for these events) and I'm going to be playing UW Post. Any thoughts/suggestions before the tournament tomorrow?
The list:
Artifact (12)
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Expedition Map
4x Pithing Needle
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Warping Wail
4x Repeal
Creature (6)
4x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Land (26)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
4x Tundra
1x Island
1x Plains
Sideboard (15)
3x Flusterstorm
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Rest in Peace
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Disenchant
1x Path to Exile
2x Containment Priest
This is is very interesting! I would suggest some kind of board wipe. Terminus is the obvious suggestion, with Brainstorms and Tops, but even Supreme Verdict, given the colors. I think this list might struggle with swarm strategies like Grixis Delver, Elves, etc. Do you have a Candleabra? Maybe 1 might help. It seems you are not interested in the Show and Tell plan, but maybe one or two in the side, with a Platinum Emperion somewhere. Lastly, other than Disenchant, do you have any plan to fight Blood Moon? I could see Repeal, but seems like a stretch to lean on. You have a ton of combo hate in your side. I would switch some of that out for a wider breadth of utlity. Otherwise, very interested to hear how it goes!
I thought about using Terminus but they are clunky and the brainstorms are already kind of over worked since we have big creatures we want to shuffle back adn cards like needle that are situational. So, although terminus is at a higher power level it also comes with higher variance. I think I'd rather play the more consistent and less powerful (but still great) swords.
Grixis Delver is actually a breeze, having a ton of removal and threats taht they cannot interact well with (wurmcoil) is just tough for them. They also have a slower clock than other delver decks.
Elves I have not tried yet but I just kind of assumed that Pithing needles, and tons of removal could be good enough to stabalize but I could be wrong.
Not a fan of candle or show and tell as they are cards that need other cards to do anything, also show and tell is worse in this deck since bringing a wurmcoil to the table isn't as good as other targets.
Blood Moon can be scary but really only 3 decks play it, miracles (which is an auto win anyways? I can just keep playing mountains and will still win) and Sneak and Show (which no one even plays anymore, haven't seen someone play it in months) and Painter (but we have emrakul so gl milling us out).
I just want a super consistent/control version that eats fair decks like shardless, delver, stoneblade and miracles that can still have competitive game 1s vs decks like d&t and elves due to tons of board interaction and can win post board games vs combo with tons of counterspells and white combo hate.
Painter kills with Jaya Ballard. Or just dork beatdown. The matchup is NOT good. Especially without Candle or Show and Tell and Prime Time.
I think play this list in big tournament...terminus and swang song nice new entry
I ran basically that list with a few minor tweaks:
Mainboard:
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 Platinum Emperion
+1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
+1 Candelabra of Tawnos
Sideboard:
-1 Surgical Extraction
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
+2 Thought-Knot Seer
I was actually looking forward to testing JTMS but my buddy who was bringing me the copy of it (and 2nd Platinum Emperion) had a family emergency come up and wasn't going to make it on time so didn't come out. I had anticipated him forgetting so I had already slotted in Candle to replace it, and Kozilek was still in there that I was running instead of 2nd Emperion prior. I might actually stick with only 1 Emperion, I like having Kozilek in the decklist since I tend to play some grindy matchups. But I do want to test the others as well.
Candles are good, having the 2nd was relevant, I actually did have them both on the board at once with 2 cloudposts allowed me to cast an Ugin game 1 vs Shardless, to which he had no answer and proceeded to die to him. He conceded once I finally found a Prime Time.
I loved Thought-Knot Seer when I had a 3 of in the sideboard and wanted to keep them there, I couldn't find room for the 3rd one but I didn't deem a single Surgical too highly and the Wurmcoil while I can see the use, with Terminus and Swan Song and Swords to Plowshares I actually think I'm hedged enough against the aggro and burn decks that I prefer stacking against combo which I generally see more often. I could be wrong but that's what testing is for.
I proceeded to lose in 2 straight games to Storm, and then lost a grindy matchup vs Shardless Bug (although our game 3 we finished really quickly since there was only 11 minutes left on the round we intentionally played as quick as possible and I just couldn't deal with the 2 4/5 Goyfs in time).
Then I had a bye cause someone dropped, and it was only 3 rounds. Probably going to play a much larger tournament on Sunday, so we'll see how that works out..hopefully I don't go 0-2 in success rounds to Lands and Burn like I did last weekend.
I'm still waiting to play the ug list.......I love so much terminus XD. But I made some change to the old list:
-1 jtms: too slow, when it comes into play basically is "make a brainstorm and die".
-1 sensei: I sometimes see too many copies of them, and without the possibility to shuffle the library, they don't give card advantage. They suffer artifact hate or miracle hate (needle, rod, krosan grip)
-1 ugin: see below.
+1 cyclonic rift: ugin is game when it enters, we know. BUT it's useless against eldrazi; it's slow;it needs the post ramp on work (useless with show and tell, no recurring wasteland from opponent......yeah I know you can cast it under blood moon with 8 lands......yeah....). Rift has a similiar effect (not so devastating ok), BUT: can be used on first turn; can easily bounce a chalice on 1 and a bloodmoon; can stop any generic pressure. This modification is still under testing, and it depends a lot on your local meta.
+2 repeal: one of the best tactic to win in magic is make card advantage. With repeal we can do this, and we can gain some times bouncing threats. 3 probably is the right number, but I already have rift. Great synergy also with sensei and swan song.
If I had another Candelabra I would play it for sure.
The burn matchup is very awful, also with a side of TEN cards (1 beb, 2 fluster, 2 trini, 2 krosan grip, 1 glacial chasm, 1 wurmcoil, 1 StP) I die easily......too many threats.
@Chaam
I see your point about Termius, however, I think one or two sweepers somewhere in the 75 could be helpful. Definitely worth testing, which it sounds like you will not have much time to do. I can see the game against Delver, but I think they can really be a house against Elves and Eldrazi. What do you think about Ugin? Doesn't hit Eldrazi, but can just mutilate most opposing board states.
As for Blood Moon, while I do agree we can win through with colorless fatties, an insurance policy can be worth it. I think you can safely cut the Canonists, and probably the Traps, for like 1 more Disenchant and some mass removal. Albeit our worst MU, 8 pieces of combo hate is a ton with all the dig you have. Maybe some Thorn of Amythest in these slots. They are good against other things too.
Lastly, there may be some merits to SnT, namely the acceleration. I play both UG on paper and RG online, and some times SnT just auto wins me games. Because Sneak N Show has vanished off of the face of the planet (I recently traded my Volcanics and Sneaks for Candelabras and Trops), not as much hate is circulating for it.
With that said, it sounds like you are going in with this list as is and I wish you the best of luck! Very excited to see how it fares!
In descending order of utility in the matchups:
1) Pox
2) Shardless
3) Merfolk
4) Elves
5) Burn
I would say that only in #1 should Stage-Depths be the primary game plan. For the others it is a useful angle of attack to have but not the best option. I like it in 3-5 because you can set it up behind Glacial Chasm and then win at your leisure, which is how the games usually go. Watch out for Clique and Sower of Temptation from Merfolk. It's also done good work for me against Reanimator, but I regard that as a fluke.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
So pox is one of my other decks. I'm curious as to some insight on your assessment. In pox I have wasteland, sinkhole, smallpox to wreck you going in on depths stage and I have discard to ensure you can't tutor it. Can you elaborate on why you like it in that match up? From the other side I feel as though I would love for you to even try using it against me as you will be setting yourself back on ramp lands
Probably because it's the cheapest EoT option we would have, considering you're blowing up all our lands keeping us entirely off our primary game plan.
I will say while on pox I don't like playing against UG post with show and tell. Just can't keep up vs a titan getting 2 posts. But with mono green, unless you can recur your stage depths. I probably crush you if depths stage is the route you want to take using up 2 land drops.
I am playing a very similar build when I go to SCG Indianapolis, except my mana base is a bit different. I play 5 fetches/5 forests and thespian stage instead of 3 fetches 7 forests and 1 waste. I have been enjoying the deck as a whole and it seems to hold its own vs aggro Eldrazi. Oracle is a 4 drop (only one green) that can accelerate the mana production exponentially, plus when you have a crucible of worlds the game can end very quick or you can wasteland them to death. Titania is also super sweet and with oracle is just bonkers. I may lose a lot at SCG Indianapolis but that is not the decks fault. In the end I will have a blast playing a very fun and intricate deck. Thanks for the cool deck lists everyone.
Hi guys! I'm starting to play mono green 12 posts in MTGO. after testing I see a big problem with delver decks and eldrazi. maybe you will give me a few tips on how to fix these matchups.
My current 75:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
8 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Ancient Stirrings
sb
2 Moment's Peace
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Silent Arbiter
1 Trinisphere
Look at the post before yours...
Elephant Grass is the way to go.
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Glad you like it! I may end up changing things up and doing something different this week as I saw a list in an online match I played a week ago that I really liked. Just a few notes on that list:
I would strongly advise you to keep a Wastes in there somewhere, even if it's just in the sideboard. This allows you to cast everything under a Moon effect, so Magus of the Moon or some other random hate bear like Aven Mindcensor doesn't completely hose you.
Your mileage may vary, but I would try to run an additional basic Forest. The deck is built off synergy, and it means you aren't recycling fetchlands just to get a fresh 3 cards with Top. With a Crucible out, you only need one fetch in the yard for maximum value.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
1) You don't need Cavern. Cavern is for forcing through Primeval Titan. In a C/g build like this, you are going straight to the Eldrazi, which give you ample value with casting triggers regardless of countermagic. Replace it with 4th Vesuva, which will greatly increase your consistency.
2) If you're going to play that many Tops, you might want to add a fetch or two. Alternatively, it's not wrong to cut Tops. I've cut mine and haven't missed them. The deck is already nearly 25% tutors/dig without them.
3) I'm still not sold on Dark Depths. I'm currently testing it online, but it hasn't done anything for me yet.
4) I'd go up to 4x Warping Wail. Aside from being a g1 answer to combo, it's very good against BUG and UR Delver, as it hits an early Pyromancer, DRS, Bob, or unflipped Delver. Countering Hymn is no joke either. (Board it out vs RUG, though.) It's not dead against Eldrazi, as it kills Mimic and token chumps TKS/Endless One.
5) I really like having a 3rd Maze. It's one of your best answers to both Delver and Eldrazi, which you're having issues with.
6) Delver's normally a slightly favored matchup, but it takes experience. The key is learning to play around Wasteland, especially in your mulligan decisions and the first 2-3 turns. If you can, sequence your lands such that you can at least pay for Daze if you need to Crop Rotation in response to the Wasteland they're (assumedly) holding in hand.
7) When in doubt, T1 Needle blind naming Wasteland is a perfectly valid play. This goes double if you have a hand with only 1 Post and 1+ Vesuva.
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