Went 4-1 again twice. Lost to BUG Delver in the first league (bad luck), and then to Sneak and Show in the second. Beat the mirror a ton, UR Delver, Dragon Stompy, Eldrazi x3, Aggro Loam, and something else which I can't remember. List is in sig.
Thanks. I wouldn't mind a third Liliana for that matchup, but it's probably not needed. Tombstalker was fantastic all day though, not just against Lands. He stabilized boards against Delvers and Stormchaser Mages, traded with Reality Smashers, ate a Thought-Knot, and provided real closing speed. He did get Set Adrift twice against UR Delver, but recasting him wasn't awful. Dismember was a great SB call, both for Eldrazi and as a way to kill Gurmag Angler and Prowess creatures.Originally Posted by ironclad8690
How have you felt about the third Strix? You've got it in what I consider my second Jace slot, but I've boarded Jace out a lot lately which might be telling.
I can't 5-0 for the life of me. 4-0 again and then fucking tribal flames delver zoo who draws 4 Wild Nacatls, 2 Tarmogoyfs, 2 Delvers, 2 Tribal Flames and a Snapcaster game 1 (I almost won but drew 1 too many lands), beat him game 2, game 3 never draw a third land and his 2 delvers flip naturally on turn 3. He tells me after the match that he plays 13 creatures, which made the game 1 loss very frustrating, he just drew running creatures with no manipulation at all. Oh well, I can't complain about beating Miracles, Eldrazi, BUG Delver, and Oops all spells...
Nice, I might switch a disfigure to a dismember.
I swear by it, there are so many matchups where he shines. Jace 2 is nice, but I have found that sticking to less powerful but more consistent plays to be better for my playstyle (I was playing 2 Jace but found myself boarding him/them out a lot and Strix is just so good vs any deck with large creatures).
Ironclad, I'm thinking of taking something very similar to your list (1 less sea, 1 more WL) to my local meta. The meta is overly fair with not much combo around. The largest part of the meta seems to be Grixis Delver (4 last week, I would have been the 5th as I normally play Delver as well). What is your SB strategy against them?
I'd assume:
-4 FoW
+1 NoSB
+2 Disfigure (or Dismember, I may run a few for Gurmag)
+1 Loam
I feel like you'd also want to bring in Golgari Charm, but I'm not sure what you'd drop for this. Baleful feels really good in the matchup, trading with any of their threats. Surgical too cute for the matchup? I feel like WL'ing and locking them out of a color, or even just taking their WLs could be backbreaking.
Guys looks like you dont face a lot of combo. For example ironclad list is only running 4 fow and 2 hymn main deck, i think that if you go to a big tournament and with 7+ rounds it is going to be hard to beat combo 3-4 times with that list(in y experience people tend to play combo in large tournaments). Wouldnt you prefer cutting the 4th AV and move 1 baleful to the side and add two more discard spells(thoughtseize or hymn) to the main? Is just a suggestion but I think it would make the deck more consistent. also planar void looks like an incredible card, I didnt even know it existed.
Grixis is actually pretty tough. Usually I go:
-2 Hymn, -2 Force of Will, -1 Jace
+2 Golgari Charm, +2 Disfigure, +1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
My reasoning is that you still want some number of FOW to be able to interact with Young P. and Gurmag on the stack. Should they resolve, you want all of your lilys for Gurmag and plenty of sweepers for Young Pyro (but don't be afraid to use a Disfigure or Decay on him pronto, you do not want those tokens getting out of control).
Loam is actually too slow vs them, I bring in Loam vs pretty much all midrangey-er delver variants though.
I have tried this, and it is possible it is the better way to go. I am trying to play the least amount of 1 drops possible to combat the rise of Chalice of the Void decks lately. I have not experienced that much of an issue not running it though, and Surgical postboard really helps the combo matchups.
Interesting, I felt that Grixis can grind games out (The 2x cabal main, no stifle version, Noahs list). Or do you mean even grindier Delver decks like BUG (Hymn/Lili).
Grixis certainly can grind, but in my opinion they can get out of hand too quickly to be durdling with Loam. I bring it in vs RUG though, because RUG has a slower rate.
Yeah, YP can get out of control pretty fast.
I assume you mean BUG, not RUG though. :P RUG is insanely fast.
Nope, RUG Delver I will bring in Loam against. They are fast, but at least their creatures don't multiply while they durdle. I feel confident in my ability to go behind a little bit vs RUG to Loam stuff, but Grixis punishes you with Deathrite and Young Pyro for doing that.
Interesting, thanks!
Finally lost my first match to eldrazi.
He had to draw 3 Reality Smashers + Jitte and a Thought-Knot Seer as well as hitting every land drop. I couldn't find a 3rd land in 7 draw steps.
Edit: He also found Cavern of Souls exactly when he needed to to play all around Force, which I had in hand.
Planar Void has some real downsides too: unlike Leyline, it's symmetric and unlike Rest in Peace it doesn't deal with cards that are already in the graveyard, so you do have to split it with Spellbomb or Surgical Extraction or have a Deathrite ready to clean up.
As for combo - I think any more than 4 discard spells main is really pushing it right now. Eldrazi and Delver decks are both still around, and both demand a certian level of playing to the board. Discard is great in both matchups when you're on the play, but it's mediocre at best on the draw since both decks force you to answer their threats quickly. Shardless gets a significant boost to its combo matchups simply by being blue, as they won't know that we don't have Daze or Spell Pierce until we reveal Agent or Visions. I'm not saying that this makes those matchups favorable, but I've always been of the opinion that the weakness in those matchups has less to do with a lack of relevant disruption than it does the lack of a fast clock.
For another perspective, my plan against Grixis Delver is:
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-2 Hymn
-1 Thoughtseize (if they have Therapy but not Stifle)
+2 Disfigure
+1 Dismember
+1 Golgari Charm
+1 Sylvan Library (if they have Therapy but not Stifle)
On the play I sometimes shave 2 Forces on the play instead of the Thoughtseize, in which case the second Seize comes in and the Sylvan remains in the board. My postboard plan is to just kill everything they play, and Force is either a removal spell that lets me play my threats, or the most effective way to force haymakers like Liliana or Goyf through. I prioroitize killing Delvers very highly and prefer to let my ground creatures handle Pyromancer and his tokens, ao Golgari Charm is mostly insurance against him getting out of hand rather than my plan A against the deck. I agree with Ironclad that Loam is too slow against them.
I was suggesting 4 discards main, not more. The list I was referring to only runs 2 main. I agree when you say the clock is important and thats why i run 3 meddling mage and 1 vendilion in the side, the provide both, disruption and clock. However, if you choose clock over disruption I think you will have a bad time beating combo consistently.
The 2 thoughtseize main are nice. Both of my 5-0s happened to be with the 2 thoughtseize 2 jace 3 ancestral 3 fow configuration, but ipretty much only played against fair decks anyways.
I'm looking for advice how Eldrazi can fight Shardless more effectively. Lately, I get crushed by Shardless with my GW list, no matter what. One thing I hate the most is probably Baleful Strix since it can stop my onslaught while drawing more cards.
I've tried many things, including Rest In Peace, All is Dust, SB equipment plan with Stoneforge and Sword of Feast and Famine, Displacer + Containment Priest combo, yet Shardless still overwhelms me. I'm starting to run out of ideas.
Outside of luck, I am not sure if Eldrazi has the tools to beat Shardless. The only match I lost against Eldrazi I got stuck on 2 lands and he drew multiple reality smashers and connected with a Jitte early. I just think you have to accept that it is a bad matchup.
Things you could try that I haven't seen: Swords of Feast and Famine and Fire and Ice. Feast and Famine makes it so we can't block at all, and Fire and Ice solves the strix problem. The issue with Jitte is that you usually have to throw away a creature to get it active, the swords at least protect your guys. I don't think you need Stoneforge, just multiples maybe?
Your best cards in the matchup are Matter Reshaper, Eldrazi Displacer, and Endbringer. Thought-Knot is pretty meh unless it's part of an explosive start or Shardless kept on the strength of a single card like Liliana or Strix. Reality Smasher is similarly only good as part of an explosive start because it's so easily outclassed in combat by Goyf. The best way to fight Shardless is probably either to go W/R or U/R to get access to Drowner of Hope and Eldrazi Obligator. Obligator in particular is scary because it forces the Shardless player to rely on things other than big creatures to stabilize the board, lest they be killed in an alpha strike when they thought they were ahead. I haven't analyzed all that many options in Black, but Bearer of Silence seems reasonable in the matchup given how much Shardless loves to chump block.
If you're set on G/W, the best options are Blight Herder to minimize Liliana or to take a note from 12Post and board out Chalices and Smashers for an anti-Wasteland card and huge bombs like Ulamog and Bane of Bala Ged.
Edit: Ironclad raises good points, but I do feel like you need 3+ pieces of equipment before that plan really comes online. Eldrazi is light on relevant Decay targets as it is (both because of its low card velocity and a low number of actual targets). Equipment does play well with Blight Herder, though.
Play MUD.
That's obviously glib, but I think the difference between MUD and Eldrazi helps to show why Shardless is a fundamentally bad matchup for Eldrazi. One of your main weapons is Chalice, but out of all the blue decks in Legacy, Shardless cares about Chalice the least. The other problem is that all of your low-end threats die to Abrupt Decay and all of your high-end threats look pathetic attacking into Baleful Strix and get roadblocked and eventually outclassed by Tarmogoyf.
Eldrazi has been successful because it's a riff on the normal stompy class of decks but gets to play the most sol lands and is overall the least clunky because there's a nice curve of 2-6 mana threats. However, since shardless isn't going to kill you quickly, clunkiness matters less than overall threat quality. MUD is a crappy matchup for Shardless because the threats are so over the top: Wurmcoil and Ugin and stuff like that are just in another stratosphere from goyf. TKS and Reality Smasher are awesome and efficient, but cant get over the top of Goyf or Strix like that.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that big stupid creatures that don't get outclassed by Tarmogyf and Strix are probably what you need. Stuff like Endbringer and Worldbreaker would be the best threats against Shardless. Does this make your deck too clunky against faster delver strategies? I dunno, maybe, but I think that's a price you'll have to pay if you want to do better against Shardless. You could also try Swords to Plowshares I guess since the cards you're having trouble with are creatures. I dunno how consistently your deck is able to produce white mana though.
From nothing came teeth.
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