Suppression Field or Stony SilenceOriginally Posted by H
In general, you should avoid playing 2-card combos if your opponent is playing control. (This is a fundamental principle in magic and has nothing to do with enchantress or miracles.) This is why some players (myself included) dislike Rest in Peace, Helm of Obedience and Enlightened Tutor. Thus, if you're expecting heavy miracles in your metagame, you should not play RiP-Helm in the first place. Personally, I have 3 Suppression Field, 2 Replenish and 1 Choke maindeck instead.
When it comes to playing against an active counter-top, it is usually not a problem as long as you can stick an enchantress first. They can lock you out of 1- and 2-drops, but usually cant counter 3- and 4-drops. Remember that you can "over pay" GSZ if you happen to know that they have a 3-drop. You can also attempt to bait them into tapping out or drawing with the top by using your less important spells.
If you do have an enchantress into play, you're usually in fine shape since you still get to draw even if your spell gets countered. Just cycle through your deck until you find emrakul.
If you don't get an enchantress out, things are going to be rough. The general idea is to overload on must-counter threats. Keep in mind that miracles rely a lot on Sensei's Divining Top, so Stony Silence is good but less so in multiples. Suppression Field is even better since it hits fetchlands and jace too, but it had poor synergy with Mirri's Guile. Replenish is great, but it competes with RiP-Helm for slots.
Abrupt Decay would probably be good against Counterbalance, but it seems too narrow to warrant sideboard slots. (We generally don't care about creatures and we don't want to fetch a Bayou against wasteland decks.) It also does not help against other forms of interaction, like Terminus and FoW.
Well, I was playing the maindeck that I was because my local meta has mostly moved to deck that RiP is just good versus by itself. Our local Miracles players have pretty much moved on to other decks, so that's why I haven't gotten much experience versus the deck.
Yeah, I usually play a BUG deck and versus Miracles, my #1 priority is always to lock them out of Top. Their deck without Top really isn't very treatening, so I already had plans on a couple of Stoney Silence in my board (I am willing to risk the deck in multiples here since, one, it will probably at least cantip, second, just in case they Council's Judgement it or something (I just really want to see it early)). I'm going to an event at a store that is not my usual one, so I felt there was a chance to see some decks I hadn't before. Last time I was there, the meta was mostly fair non-Blue decks, which was pretty odd, along with some Graveyard based combo decks. Then again, I can't even recall when that was exactly, so the meta could be totally different now (probably over a year ago).
Since I am going down the Black-splash road, I am leery of going too deep on Suppresion Fields, since it could end up being more of a hindrance to me than in a "standard" GW build. I am probably wrong in this, but if assumption leads me to lose some games, then I am fine with that learning curve.
I'm still a noob with the deck, so it's going to take a good bit of time and games for me to get a better feel for certain match-ups. I felt like Decay could also help versus Chalice, since I know for a fact that at least one person is playing Edrazi Stompy (he is one of our locals) and there will probably be more.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I backed and forced a lot with suppression field. Sometimes it is great to see the opponents face tapping 4 mana for some activations but on the other hand I had a lot of mu's where I would like to have something else. Currently I don't play them (again) and added a sigil, runed halo and a third solitary.
Yeah, I can see how Suppression Field is very polar, either really good, or entirely useless.
I have a Sigil in my sideboard, so that when I board out the RiPs in matchups where it doesn't do anything, I can board out the Helm for it and still have another win condition besides Emrakul.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
So I want to talk about the new Sorin
I want to test him over Doomwake Giant in my black splash build. I think that he has a similar function of stabilizing a board and winning the game.
So first the advantages. He stabilizes better against a tall board than Doomwake Giant allowing you to take out things like Thoughtknot Seer and and Ethersworn Canonist easier. I'd suspect the life gain part of his destroy ability is not irrelevant either. He can be a last ditch effort to hope to win by +1 and flipping Emrakul. He's harder to interact with than Doomwake Giant and doesn't die to things like Krosan Grip or get brushed away by Terminus. And despite him not activating your Enchantresses you can still play him and draw at least one card if that's what the situation needs.
And the disadvantages. Well he's not an enchantment so no draw triggers and he can't be fetched up with Enlightened Tutor or Sterling Grove. Also I wouldn't underestimate the fact that he's 1 cmc more and requires WB. Finally he's worse against a wide board so he won't be the near wrath against D&T and stabilizing against Pyromancer style decks but I think that deck construction choices can help mitigate this fact.
I'm interested to test it. I'm not sure changing up a win condition is a very impactful choice at all but it's the only card I expect to see that's even possibly relevant to us.
Seems bad. Far worse against death and taxes. I cant imagine a match up this improves that you care about while weakening a weaker matchup you do care about
Yeah, I can't see really wanting that in the deck.
On another note, I finally got in my Eidolon, but I'm unsure how to fit it in my list. Need to take a deeper look, but at first glance all I can think of is a Grove, which I really don't want to cut. Perhaps I still leave it out for now.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I wouldn't consider him. Shroud completely shuts him down. Doomwake can basically clean the board with one shot plus one enchantment. Sorin can do it once each turn.
Hello everyone
So an update. These past few weeks I have been testing quite a bit of Enchantress almost solely the GW variety.
I have been testing GW Opalescence + Parallax Wave
4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Kruphix's Insight
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Sylvan Library
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Replenish
5 Forest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctums
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
SB
3 Banishing light
4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of sanctity
2 Elephant Grass
3 City of Solitude
...and GW Helm
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri’s Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Banishing Light
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
11 forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
SB
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Banishing Light
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Sphere of Resistance
Both lists have a lot of merit. GW helm continues to perform quite well especially since the meta has shifted towards eldrazi. Helm has excellent game vs a wide variety of the meta because of key cards line Suppression field, and the new SB innovation of Sphere of Resistance. Since the meta has shifted, and the zelous persecution and golgari charms, Toxic Deluge have fallen out of many sideboards or have dwindled in numbers so BGx decks are no longer the threat that they once were. The thorn in the side of enchantress has been combo decks, the more obscure the harder to beat. i.e. Alluren, or Food Chain. After writing a list of the problem MUs the thought occurred to me it seems like Sphere of resistance was a catch all for the majority of those combo decks. Alluren has to pay (1) pre creature, Food chain combo is no longer at net creature mana. Storm dark ritual nets you (1) mana. Elves. All elves cost (1) more. …as it turns out that is enough to slow the faster combo decks that skimp on more permanent mana to be far slower than enchantress under the same conditions as a result of our growths and sprawls. In testing I was surprised as to how ubiquitous it was. Dredge, Tin Fins, Elves, omnitell …and I can go on and on. Where sphere of resistance fights all of the “lots of spells” decks Banishing light and oblivion ring, and Suppression field do an excellent job at fighting the “A+B” combo decks. I tested Sterling again, and the deck was weaker to faster decks so I’m still not a fan. I have not tested a black splash, I am one to exhaust something prior to looking elsewhere i.e. a new color splash.
The opalescence deck is a blast to play. It is an a+b combo deck fo those that do not know Opalescence and Parallax Wave on the board together makes parallax wave a creature that can exile itself. Without going into the details on how it works stacking the triggers correctly you can exile any creature and non-aura enchantment (Counterbalance / Omniscience anyone?), and in any remotely fair MU completely takes over the game. With an oring on the board you can exile and permanent indefinitely at instant speed. The deck kills very quickly just with enchantment creatures, so all other kills were removed. I should also note that any targeted removal on any enchantment creature you can blink your creature at instant speed and “counter” the removal. The deck is very competitive, but feels less versatile than GW helm.
So that is where I am at
Last edited by Freggle; 03-22-2016 at 02:57 PM.
If you get the chance you should record some of your games with the Opalescence and Parallax Wave version of the deck. I'd love to see it in action.
What does Sphere of Resistance do that Rule of Law doesn't?
EDIT: I get it, it hurts us less.
I will try and stream or post something by the end of the week.
That's the big one, but also running quick numbers on a hyper-geometric calculator if both law and sphere were 4 of Sphere is 20+% more likely to come down turn 2 given that it's 1 less mana and there is no color requirement.
It's affects stacks, Where Rule of Laws does not. Also remember a lot of combo decks play Brainstorm and FOW. If they do the benefit under law given that they can cast both on your turn and theirs. Whereas with Sphere if it locks it locks for both.
It also sorta protects itself in that removal spells cost 1 more as well Abrupt Decay would be BG1. Not an easy task for a combo deck with 17 or less lands.
It is more or less with the same idea and tricks as old Replenish.deck had.
But as you play 4 Kruphix's Insight and 4 Commune with the Gods -- why don't you deal with all the advantages of Replenish as you can easily put 1-2 enchantments to grave?
You don't have that extensive card draw as common Enchantress has (just fewer options for this), which means you can easily get to the situation when you won't be able to "infinite" Paralaxes. Also surprising Tranquility or early Tranquil Grove (which I faced recently and was surprised) when there is no Opalescence will drop your match out.
Will Replenish solve all this? Most of the time. Yes it is additional 4cc spell but maybe it worth that.
Also it will allow you to have an addtional option to play around Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle (with your Paralax named) by just returning back 4\4 creature for several turns.
Per Aspera Ad Astra
Say what you mean, mean what you say
Once and for all and all for once Nemo my name for evermore
My apologies. If you count the list it's 57 cards. I inadvertently left off 3 Replenish. I have edited the original post to be correct now.
Then one more thing is to fix the typo: "Replensish" --> "Replenish"
And everything will be great ;)
Per Aspera Ad Astra
Say what you mean, mean what you say
Once and for all and all for once Nemo my name for evermore
This seems good.
I was thinking the exact same thing. But in wich matchups would you board out the RiP's and Helm? and what to bring in?
It's definitely interesting. There are going to be plenty of situations where you're searching for a specific card to close out the game and this is going to be your best chance at digging as deep as possible. It also allows you to end of turn sac Sterling Grove then pop this to not have to waste your draw step drawing the card you want off Sterling Grove. Putting things into your graveyard is generally a good thing since we have access to Replenish. I'm thinking this could see play but only in lists that don't want to run RIP/Helm.
On the flipside I'm somewhat hesitant to load up on 1CMC spells since Chalice is running in higher numbers right now and Counterbalance makes them impossible to resolve.
But in general my card evaluation is terrible so you should probably just believe the opposite of whatever I'd wager.
Any chance we can get a primer that isn't older than some of the kids I've seen at FNM?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
