I'm not sure about Nissa, still haven't tried it but Courser is definitely good. The card advantage train is real with Library/Top, and the lifegain/blocking beats pretty much every fair deck in the format. Courser translates into drawing 2 cards a turn, every turn and gaining about 1.5 life per turn.Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I'm less happy with truths, I just don't see why I need it when I have a Courser going. Mine gets used less for advantage and more for clearing Top.
Where Courser is weak is against decks like S&T, Reanimator, and so on but those aren't the decks we're trying to beat in the first place. The card is pure value.
It's an interesting thought for BUG but I think Meren is the better 4 to GSZ in the vast majority of circumstances. The card we would most want to copy is Siege Rhino which is out of color. I do find it interesting in Pod though, pod a Finks into this and get another Finks, Pod that into a 4 drop, and persist this into something else. In that sense it's better than Metamorph since it's green.
Hey,
Is the Scapeshift variant of Nic Fit still any good? I'm a modern transient, and my deck there was Rug->Btl scapeshift, so it would be nice to know if I could still use some of the cards from that for this deck.
Also, is the nic-shift variant similar in playstyle and objectives to RG titanshift, or is it more like an "oops I win" combo in a nic fit shell a la twin or Depths Maverick?
I assume Btl also wouldn't be very good, Burning Wish seems like it would be better in most situations because it doesn't require as much color diversity and another space in your deck for the card you want to tutor that wouldn't contribute to the creature-based strategy. Of course, this is all just speculation without any experience, so is this true?
Thanks for reading.
@Rubblekill- You are right in that planeswalkers for non punishing fire versions are a big problem. Both Liliana and Jace apply pressure that deed and creatures cannot always fight. Thanks for the support of Decay! haha
-Nissa is not a legacy relevant spell. Thats for sure. I dont care if you play gsz. That effect too small and if you have enough lands to flip her then you should be able to do something a lot more powerful than nissa.
- Courser CA is not worth playing a subpar card. The CA you are talking about is Courser with another card to be able to dig 1 deeper. The life is such a tiny effect I do not consider that to matter in the discussion. The fact that courser cant block delver, goyf, bskull, angler means that it cant even stonewall the main beaters that most aggro decks play.
-Ptruths vs Courser is not even close. I am a believer in ptruths as a card but even if you are not as high on it as me the comparison will still favor the immediate draw 3. It doesnt require multiple turns, doesnt need another card to really function. It lets you play it and untap with the cards or with enough mana play right away. Truths also cant be hit by decay, stp or any other removal spell that again, get stuck in your hand playing against a control deck.
- I dont believe that Nic fit has to have a bad matchup with S&T or reanimator so I guess we agree to disagree on that.
Ive never played the modern scapeshift decks before so i cant talk about their similarities, but i play scapewish pretty exclusively at high level tournaments with good success
The version i play is like a tap out control deck where you just try to grind your opponent out of resources. once your both in top deck mode all your draws are just bigger
you can close out games with your creatures, huntmaster is insane, but more often than not you stall them out to a point where you can scapeshift for the kill.
this is the list im running now, been running about this list minimal changes for 3ish years now
Creatures (16)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Huntmaster of The Fells
2 Thragtusk
2 Woodelves
2 Sakura-Tribe Elders
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
Spells (21)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands (24)
2 Valakut
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Stomping Grounds
Sideboard:
2 Carpet of flowers
2 REB
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughtergames
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pyroclasm
2 Thoughtsieze
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
lmk if you have anymore questions about the deck
Who the hell is knocking Courser and Nissa? You need some amount of utility cards...it can't all be bombs. Good luck ramping/curving. By the same token, the ramp is what makes Sakura (thanks Kev) and co. good in Nic Fit. Courser is probably the best 3cc ramp the deck could have --- considering he gives you perpetual library depth and is synergistic with top/fetchlands/shuffles/GSZ.
nissa is honestly better post board in matchups where you have to side out some number of explorers at worst she replaces herself with a forest at best she draws a card every turn. you can't ask for much more from a three drop in blue control matchups. as far as snt and big fatty matches go ensnaring bridge helps solve much of the dilemma. its commonly looked at as a major nobo but in actual practical application it works. this thread in general spends entirely too much time in magical christmas land casting cards and making changes specifically for the sake of actually getting too not because they improve any actual bad matchups. you can only jerk off on delver.deck so many time before you realize that matchup is solved by your md and if you're having trouble its your play style and thought process not the card selection. if you bring this deck to any sort of irl tournament you want to have your board tuned to either beat storm/jace or big fatty.dec you cant beat both but you can beat one group or the other. i cant speak for the online meta because its skewed by an entirely different set of budget decks and availability concerns.
Me! Courser doesn't 180^ the board like rhino and sigarda do, and I don't fancy wasting a gsz for him. His Life gain is irrelevant, for 3 mana it dies to too many things without being able to block.
Nissa. I have tried her because her flip side is nice and needed against slower decks but: against bug decks dies to decay (an otherwise dead card vs us) so she can't be a wincon; is a dead card if in the opener; ramp ability has always been irrelevant (4vet 2towers and drs is enough. Sigarda is my highest cmc card), and too many times, especially against miracles (the deck against which we want nissa the most), the opponent had removal and/or Karakas (a land that can render nissa useless) to negate the flip.
I have never played sakura and co in junk because they are weak sauce. Its not hard to hit 4 mana for rhino. Miracles doesn't need ramp to reach 4 mana to play jtms, and for us it's the same. Only that rhino is better.
I have been playing my latest list for a while and it's been the most consistent I have ever played. Rhino deeds and decays, no unnecessary weak cards, only the most powerful cards; I think the 76 is very streamlined, I will post it later.
Everything you play for 3 mana or less dies to pretty much everything, so how is that an argument? Following your logic we should just skip on the DRS and Scooze too.
Infact drs is an utility one of only to fight reanimator. And for me Ooze gets infact sided out a fair amount, for me it stays in the deck because of delver and gy strategies. Sometimes we don't have mana to gsz a rhino against mana denial - delver, and ooze CAN 180 a board: this very fact means that ooze belongs in the deck, and in every gsz deck ever imo. It can't be said enough how irrelevant of a card is courser most of the time: the only bad card i am willing to have in the opener is dryad arbor, but this sacrifice gives a lot of benefits that can be game changing, as i said in the post above.
Tldr: a gsz for drs or ooze will be game changing and a life saver. 4 mana for a card that's useless for at least 2 turns is a waste of one of the best card in the deck (gsz).
I have never sideboarded ooze out in a single matchup I already don't trust where this is going...
That's fair enough! Against shardless and miracles I do replace it with Elspeth. I am aware that it is a debatable choice but I have never regretted it so far.
Ooze is weird: sometimes I want to consider it as a sb card, then I draw it and remember why it is in the deck even if it's a 2 cmc guy.
care to share your full list plus sideboard plan for what you're leaving in vs shardless and miracles over the ooze? i usually go:
miracles
-3 path -3 vet -3 therapy -1 nightmare
+2 ts +1 grip +1 garruk +1 teeg +1 needle +1 g charm +1 plague +2 surgical
shardless
-3 path -2 therapy
+1 garruk +2 ts +1 teeg +1 needle
I will do it when I will be home, now im on mobile
stupid time zones its 4 am where I am i'd assume everyone is home by now... its also worth noting that the european meta is about as different as modo vs irl. so what works in the pacific northeast may not work as well over sea's. where I live storm lands and snt are my boogymen im gaurenteed to see two of them in any size event with storm being the easiest of the three honestly.
Keep it in vs. Shardless. It can absolutely manhandle Goyf or forces them to AD it. It also fucks over DRS pretty hard, so that's nice. It singlehandedly takes care of 8 of their creatures.
I know but since deed here is the key of the match up I don't wanna blow my ooze together with their goyfs. Even against bug decks we should play ooze in the mid-late game, better after the board wipe, but again, most of the time he is gonna gain life in response to their decay.. I want AD to be our best card, which it already is, and their worst card at the same time.
Yeah... Deed isn't for everyone.
If it so happens that you have Scooze & Deed out, you just ride your Scooze as long as you can and don't blow Deed unless you have to. Deed is best used as a threat, not as actual removal. You know, just keep hovering your hand over that self destruct button while you tell your opponent "Come at me, bro. I dare you!".
But in this way we turn on their decay, and we must keep mana up all the Time to threaten the board wipe.. I don't like that to be honest..
We turn on their Decay by having anything < 4 CMC on the board. And you do like using Pernicious Deed as 5 mana removal..?
Yes I do against AD, if I can. I have no creature outside ooze and Drs that dies to deed or ad (I have witnessed but come on her role here is not to be a vanilla 2/1).
Against miracles eldrazi etc I just play it and use it as a life insurance.
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