[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Ronald Deuce]

My TNT (Wish ANT) list makes more mana though. I'll try it in that.

Would you mind sharing that list? I've been playing a lot of AnT lately and I'm interested in trying TES or a hybrid list just to see how it plays. If you've got any guidelines or observations about how it plays compared with AnT and TES, I'd be interested to hear them. Thanks in advance!

[Pelikanudo]

What's good about the Eldrazi decks taking over the "budget aggro" role from Death&Taxes is that it has shifted the permanent based hate away from creatures and towards artifacts, so the number of discard and the Swamp become more important.
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well thats the good thing... the bad thing is that they land thir threats 1 turn earlier... I've always hated playing such non polivalent land in TES, but hey! that's me... I see however the logic behind swamp and discard.

Since I've moved back from Thoughtseize to Duress, I find the 3rd Chrome Mox to be redundant and I'm experimenting with cutting Chrome Mox altogether again for 2 Cabal Ritual, 1 Bayou and replacing the MD Empty the Warrens with the 3rd Duress.
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there is no sense in experimenting with such changes... you'll have total 14 lands no EtW and no Pif-Tendirls Engine main. and your A.N will become worse... I experimenting this long time before and just sucks... you need synergy with the cards you play in main - (A.N. AND C.M.) OR (PiF and C.R. and ToA) OR (EtW AND alternative win con for 2nd and 3rd games)

my last TNT build has 14 lands - among them 2 basics and I put back tropical in the side and replacing this with 1 RoF. this is The Unique flexible Slot, in Timo was C.M. I put tropical and now 1 RoF seems the correct one to me...

I wouldn't get hung up making changes to the mana base and the acceleration, with Chalice becoming a MD consideration I think cutting down on the number of 0cc artificats makes sense. And you're kind of underestimating how often they cast Chalice for 0, it's not like they get Tomb/City openings every game.

Well, you asume that more often than not they'll play Chalice at 0 vs us, this is where - I believe we differ - I think more often than not they'll play chalice at 1 vs us In 1st games. Therefore all the rest of conclusions derived are in different position than me... Ex.: For me C.M. becomes better then... Even n 2nd and 3rd game AND if they do not have Tomb/City/Mox they will prefer to play at 1 because avoids D.R. AND RoF and all discard, cantrips...- see the Eldrazi thread...

Question: Do you think playing 1 S.Spree is worth? maybe I took my extirpate and put in a couple of CoV also...

Apart, regarding Behold the Beyond:

Sure in TES and ANT is nonsense and I evaluated this in TNT:
1) Comparing to D.P.: it is a 9 mana cost if you plan to grab A.N. --> with BB you'll need total 10 mana to grab A.N.
2) if you want a PiF engine you are exact in the same position as BB --> with BB the best you can do is 11 mana(among them R) to grab D.R., C.R, PiF... Other option is 9 mana just grabbing LED LED and Pif but again you'll need D.R., D.R., C.R. in G.Y. as mínimum... Other options even involves having Cantrips in hand to make some tricks - like: D.R.->C.R.->LED->B.W.-> BB-> to LED,LED, I.T. (having B.S. or G.P.)

honestly in 1) and 2) D.P.is just better... for me it is totally discarded even in TNT build.
@Asthereal: If I'm allowed - my suggestion is to just don't even try it in TNT, EDIT: well this is theory but maybe the behaviour of the card is more like DD as the cards you pcik may depend on the cards you already have... to enjoy I'll try it... but the fact is that it is redundant... I before played 1 G.T. now 1 D.P.


EDIT: I've been having a look in Vinage decks searching for responses vs Eldrazi - What do you think about Viashino Heretic vs Eldrazi? In vintage they play mainly I.C. or Serenity and some number of hurkils.
what I like from this vs Trygon is a) its mana cost is easier to enable and 2) makes damage so that the opp. can be dead by natural tendrils, anyways I believe the 3 before commented are just betteroptions...

[Bryant Cook]

Took 2nd at an Eternal Extravaganza Satellite event for EE4. Report to follow this week.

[Lemnear]

there is no sense in experimenting with such changes... you'll have total 14 lands no EtW and no Pif-Tendirls Engine main. and your A.N will become worse... I experimenting this long time before and just sucks... you need synergy with the cards you play in main - (A.N. AND C.M.) OR (PiF and C.R. and ToA) OR (EtW AND alternative win con for 2nd and 3rd games)

How the fuck does AN get "worse" if you don't have to stop flipping at 4 life and two more rituals to float mana into AN? This is the exact same discussion we had ~9 months ago when I played 0 moxen and 10 Rituals in Paris.

Please fucking stop claiming you actually tried this. You paired the CabalRituals with not only less lands than proposed, but also with goldlands rather than fetches which would fuel t.hold.

Well, you asume that more often than not they'll play Chalice at 0 vs us, this is where - I believe we differ - I think more often than not they'll play chalice at 1 vs us In 1st games. Therefore all the rest of conclusions derived are in different position than me... Ex.: For me C.M. becomes better then... Even n 2nd and 3rd game AND if they do not have Tomb/City/Mox they will prefer to play at 1 because avoids D.R. AND RoF and all discard, cantrips...- see the Eldrazi thread...

Keep discussing the advantages of ChromeMox and dodging the question of how you wanna power out your combo, if all your Rituals and shit gets stuck in Chalice

[Bryant Cook]

Tournament report from this past weekend: http://www.theepicstorm.com/storming...-03192016-2nd/

[Mapson]

Bryant, three comments on the report.

1.) 69 players...still way under expected but more than 59
2.) The delver, sylvan library, bob. I was one of the judges watching. You saw it wrong.
3.) Typo on rd 4 opponent's last name.

Edit: Also, congrats on another strong finish.

[Bryant Cook]

Bryant, three comments on the report.

1.) 69 players...still way under expected but more than 59
2.) The delver, sylvan library, bob. I was one of the judges watching. You saw it wrong.
3.) Typo on rd 4 opponent's last name.

Edit: Also, congrats on another strong finish.

1.) Wouldn't 69 players be an additional round then? 59 is below the 64 cut off. Found this: http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/swiss_pairings.pdf
2.) I'm pretty sure I know what I saw. They were playing very quickly but he 100% did Dark Confidant after the Library trigger. (I don't think there was anything malicious there, just two people trying to finish before time.)
3.) I copied it from the Planeswalker site, if it's wrong, it's wrong there as well.

EDIT: Thank you.
EDIT 2: Added link for rounds.

[Mapson]

1.) Wouldn't 69 players be an additional round then? 59 is below the 64 cut off. Found this: http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/swiss_pairings.pdf
2.) I'm pretty sure I know what I saw. They were playing very quickly but he 100% did Dark Confidant after the Library trigger. (I don't think there was anything malicious there, just two people trying to finish before time.)
3.) I copied it from the Planeswalker site, if it's wrong, it's wrong there as well.

EDIT: Thank you.
EDIT 2: Added link for rounds.

1. yes. misread my notes. writing my own report and noticed that too.
2. I know it looks bad for me to try to say I definitely saw it after getting the number of players wrong but I was making sure to pay extra attention to what was getting revealed and making sure he did things in the proper order

EDIT
also, either way, in future, if you see something like that, please bring it to the attention of the judges so they can correct it, if it's not being done correctly.

[Asthereal]

Would you mind sharing that list? I've been playing a lot of AnT lately and I'm interested in trying TES or a hybrid list just to see how it plays. If you've got any guidelines or observations about how it plays compared with AnT and TES, I'd be interested to hear them. Thanks in advance!

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
1 Ad Nauseam /21

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual /17

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy /7

2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Bloodstained Mire /15

Sideboard:
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Dark Petition
2 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Void Snare
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm /15

There you go. It's been a while since I tuned this list though, so it's probably not optimal for the current meta.
Long story short: more business, less cantripping into nothing. At times, Wish can be weak though.

(EDIT: Apparently it's hard to post this from the top of my head...
EDIT2: Wow I suck at posting lists... sorry guys!)

[Zooligan]

Tournament report from this past weekend: http://www.theepicstorm.com/storming...-03192016-2nd/

Hey Bryant, quick question:

In the report under "Round two: Ross Prajzner on Elves" between G1 and G2 you have "Sideboarding: -2 Duress, -1 Empty the Warrens, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Grapeshot."

But then in the G2 description you say "If Ross draws a land, he can Green Suns Zenith for Gaddock Teeg. If that is the scenario, I have Burning Wish in my hand to get Grapeshot on my turn."

How does that play out? Burning Wish only gets cards from SB, and you can't wish for and play the Dark Petition because of Teeg. What am I missing here?

[Bryant Cook]

Hey Bryant, quick question:

In the report under "Round two: Ross Prajzner on Elves" between G1 and G2 you have "Sideboarding: -2 Duress, -1 Empty the Warrens, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Grapeshot."

But then in the G2 description you say "If Ross draws a land, he can Green Suns Zenith for Gaddock Teeg. If that is the scenario, I have Burning Wish in my hand to get Grapeshot on my turn."

How does that play out? Burning Wish only gets cards from SB, and you can't wish for and play the Dark Petition because of Teeg. What am I missing here?

I think it's just an error in my sideboarding notes. I probably didn't side it in.

[Zooligan]

I think it's just an error in my sideboarding notes. I probably didn't side it in.

Ok. I'm just in the process of building the deck and am trying to wrap my mind around the common lines and strategies. This was making me second-guess myself and think I had completely misunderstood the scope of Burning Wish!

Got any advice for someone picking up the deck about how to evaluate opening hands and make mulligan decisions? I've been reading thru the thread but 380+ pages...

[Bryant Cook]

Ok. I'm just in the process of building the deck and am trying to wrap my mind around the common lines and strategies. This was making me second-guess myself and think I had completely misunderstood the scope of Burning Wish!

Got any advice for someone picking up the deck about how to evaluate opening hands and make mulligan decisions? I've been reading thru the thread but 380+ pages...

I have an entire websites worth of content that can help you with that.

[Zooligan]

I have an entire websites worth of content that can help you with that.

Anything particularly juicy for TES noobs? Currently I've been working thru the articles on your site from newest back. Same with the video coverage. After a while I feel like "Yeah, I'm starting to get it." and then I look at the Hand Generator section on your site and it's all "Glurgh! IDK."

[Bryant Cook]

Anything particularly juicy for TES noobs? Currently I've been working thru the articles on your site from newest back. Same with the video coverage. After a while I feel like "Yeah, I'm starting to get it." and then I look at the Hand Generator section on your site and it's all "Glurgh! IDK."

I recommend about 1-3 years worth of practice and testing. You're not going to find some instant fix on the internet.

[Zooligan]

I recommend about 1-3 years worth of practice and testing. You're not going to find some instant fix on the internet.

Of course not! Just wondering if you had any recommended reading for TES noobs. Guess not. That's OK. I'll slog through.

[LDX]

Of course not! Just wondering if you had any recommended reading for TES noobs. Guess not. That's OK. I'll slog through.

They're coming soon. :)

You'll see a lot of people willing to help you too, if you put the effort in it. Some general content is indeed missing but if you share specific, real game scenarios to others on this forum or the Facebook page, you'll most likely see someone reply for that situation. Don't ask questions out of the blue, try writing reports and be as precise as you can. It's worth it and you'll find the help you want.

With all of these micro-answer, you'll be able to notice patterns in every decisions good players take, and you'll find why and stuff. It comes with time, don't get too harsh on yourself.

[Ronald Deuce]

Thanks for the post, Asthereal! I'll give the list some tuning and take it for a spin. I've gotta get used to running a wishboard in Storm.

[Bryant Cook]

AJ Kerrigan's latest for the website: http://www.theepicstorm.com/a-storm-over-innistrad/

[Pelikanudo]

Read this from A.J.K:

We know that, to start, we will need nine mana. Two for Burning Wish and seven for Behold the Beyond. There is no three card combination that allows us go off from zero mana, so then let’s assume we need a tenth mana.

Yes, there is:

LED, LED, PiF
and In G.Y.:
D.R.,C.R., [I.T. OR D.R. OR C.R.]
For example
EDIT: If this is in a TES deck context then this is not posible.

What does exactly mean?:

Return any number of cards with different converted mana costs from your graveyard to your hand. Put Seasons Past on the bottom of its owner's library.

this mean for example Ican only bring [LED or Land or Petal], [D.R or B.S. or RoF], and so on with the rest of mana costs?