[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Warden]

No love for Wurmcoil in the BUG list? It's big, stupid, hard to deal with, persists through all non-exile effects, and doesn't care about BUG's colors/color screw.

[Ricardio]

No love for Wurmcoil in the BUG list? It's big, stupid, hard to deal with, persists through all non-exile effects, and doesn't care about BUG's colors/color screw.

Consecrated Sphinx and prime time are simply better.

[Echelon]

Especially Sphinx. It allows you to pull ahead so fast.

Just wait for your opponent to cast his first Brainstorm.

[Ricardio]

my issue with sphinx over prime time is: You can gsz for it and it can just die before you get triggers. that being said, once you hit the second trigger, its better than prime time albeit the clock isn't the same

[Echelon]

my issue with sphinx over prime time is: You can gsz for it and it can just die before you get triggers. that being said, once you hit the second trigger, its better than prime time albeit the clock isn't the same

A boa constrictor and a tiger both are deadly. One just needs some more time to kill you than the other does.

The Sphinx gives you so much CA you end up just overwhelming your opponent with cards. Titan just smashes face and creates the Two Towers loop in case just smashing face isn't good enough. To each their own .

GSZ can be solved by Traverse the Ulvenwald or Fierce Empath (even though it's a slow play and takes up a slot and yada-yada. But it's still there if you want a reliable way of finding Sphinx).

[Ricardio]

A boa constrictor and a tiger both are deadly. One just needs some more time to kill you than the other does.

The Sphinx gives you so much CA you end up just overwhelming your opponent with cards. Titan just smashes face and creates the Two Towers loop in case just smashing face isn't good enough. To each their own .

GSZ can be solved by Traverse the Ulvenwald or Fierce Empath (even though it's a slow play and takes up a slot and yada-yada. But it's still there if you want a reliable way of finding Sphinx).

Sphinx is great but prime time wins faster. I wish I could fit both but that is doubtful.

How do you reliably get delirium so traverse isn't a shitty land cantrip?

[Tom4ik]

Sphinx is great but prime time wins faster. I wish I could fit both but that is doubtful.

How do you reliably get delirium so traverse isn't a shitty land cantrip?

Gprobe, vet/strix, brainstorm, decay, deed, liliana/jace, of course the fetches. The deck has quite a few types of cards that go to the graveyard.

[Ricardio]

Gprobe, vet/strix, brainstorm, decay, deed, liliana/jace, of course the fetches. The deck has quite a few types of cards that go to the graveyard.

4 or more is where its HAS to reliably be for that spell to be worth its slot. otherwise its a waste of space and will be replaced.

[Tom4ik]

4 or more is where its HAS to reliably be for that spell to be worth its slot. otherwise its a waste of space and will be replaced.

Ppl said the same thing about delve spells and then realized that just because you couldnt play them in the first 3 turns didnt mean they were not busted. Now I do not think traverse is as broken as those but turning on a 1 mana tutor that is better than Gsz could still be worth building on.

[Ricardio]

Ppl said the same thing about delve spells and then realized that just because you couldnt play them in the first 3 turns didnt mean they were not busted. Now I do not think traverse is as broken as those but turning on a 1 mana tutor that is better than Gsz could still be worth building on.

this is different than delve. this is specifically for nic fit AND it is about quality not quantity. 4 DIFFERENT types in the gy for the card to doing anything. we already use the gy quite a bit. I imagine specific infrastructural changes would need to be made to make traverse active and playable.

[Tom4ik]

probe, therapy, pulse, ponder, traverse - sorcery
decay, bstorm - instant
lily, jace - pw
fetches - land
strix, vet - creature
strix - artifact
deed, library - enhcantment

It is not that hard to imagine getting traverse active. I doubt you turn it on before turn 3 but I honestly would not imagine that running a deck with some amount of the above cards you are not able to.

[uncletiggy]

The problem with traverse is it competes with cards many ppl already cant find slots for. ie diabolic intent, sylvan library, top #4, painful truths, skelatal scrying, recurring nightmare, ponder and several other jankier options that fill the 11-12 "card selection/advantage" slots. It cannot compete with tops 1-3, GSZ, or brainstorm.

[Ricardio]

It's not a nic fit card. Bug control will play it, at least I will try it. Delirium isn't hard there and basically can tripping into a tnn seems strong or grabbing a waste

[sdematt]

Everyone's next post: please post their current Rhinotime list so we all have them in one place.

[Echelon]

I'll be piloting this list next saturday.

Mainboard:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Path to Exile
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed

2 Painful Truths
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor

Sideboard:
1 Memoricide
3 Duress
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Golgari Charm
1 Rest in Peace

1 Memoricide in lieu of a Taiga + Slaughter Games.

[Bobmans]

Everyone's next post: please post their current Rhinotime list so we all have them in one place.

@Echelon: your attending at Duth Open today?

@Matt: Wheres yours?

Heres mine (currently gonna test Anguished Unmaking):


4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path To Exile
2 Anguished Unmaking

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland

3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

1 Dryad Arbor // Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

sideboard
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist // Slaughter Games
1 Gaddock Teeg // Slaughter Games
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge

[pettdan]

I'm changing a few slots every week, currently on this (due to playing against a lot of miracles). Typing this on the phone so using short names.

Main deck (60):
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda
1 Meren
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ooze
1 Stoneforge
1 Batterskull
1 Qasali
2 Deathrite
3 Veteran

3 Deed
3 Decay
3 Path
2 Vindicate

1 Painful Truths
1 Evolutionary Leap

4 GSZ
4 Therapy
3 SDT

1 Taiga
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant C
3 Windswept H
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas

Sb:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical
2 Slaughter Games
1 Canonist
1 Gaddock
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tsunami
1 Engineered Plague
1 Enlightened Tutor
A bit more experimental than above slots:
1 Choke (may go back to Tsunami no 2, Wear/Tear and Council's Judgement are cards)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon

The Evolutionary leap has been experimental, but it hasn't been bad yet, it's gotten a few tough game wins (allowed me to attack through a Griselbrand vs reanimator and clear and replay my board to ignore an active Ugin) and it always lets you rebuild threats, gain card advantage and a way to tutor for key creatures (ooze, sigarda).(I also expect it to be great vs Miracles)

I recently replaced 2 Baneslayers with Mystic + Skull since Snappy + Swords vs Baneslayer is so miserable.

I keep thinking about my favorite project, the Nic Fit transformational land destruction sideboarding plan: 1-2 KotR, 2 Wastelands and a few Vindicates main. But Tutor + Blood Moon probably does it better..

Edit: regarding Matt's comment, I'm also close to playtesting a Safekeeper, just having Rhinos unremovable seems great. And ooze.. And untouchable Mystic into Skull.

Edit: An idea I picked up in another thread a while ago is the sb trio of E.tutor + Canonist + E.Plague vs Storm. You can tutor for Canonist and play it turn 2. If they land goblins you can tutor for Plague. If they tap out you could tutor for Choke. The value of a second Canonist is limited, I prefer the flexibility of the tutor doubling sb value in a lot of other matchups as well as the canonist/plague synergy mentioned. Plague is also great vs Elves. I just decided to play bridge over path no 4 since I have so much removal in the main anyway, having just added Vindicates. And it seems good vs Eldrazi, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Dredge (?) and lands too.

Edit: My list stops at CMC 5 so the value of additional Explorers is very limited, that's why only 3. Haven't missed no 4 much. Also Veteran sucks vs Miracles, it's nice to have one less dead card and with GSZ as you know it's easy to find when you need. And the 4th Decay was changed to a Qasali, adding 4 GSZ's to stop a Counterbalance/Chalice and a way to destroy an early Batterskull, a Leyline, Moat, whatever. Annd for Meren synergy. Will probably go back and forth on this.

[sdematt]

Toying with the idea of trying:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Titania
16

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths
1 Sylvan Library
10

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path To Exile
1 Vindicate
14

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Taiga
2 Phyrexian Tower
21

sideboard
1 From the Ashes
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Golgari Charm
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Can't remember (it's 1AM and I'm tired)

Point being - gun for Miracles. Safekeeper protects Rhinos, and also Titania. Teeg lock out of the board is game over against them. From the Ashes coming in against Eldrazi.

[helvetios]

I'm currently playing around with Hymn to tourach a bit. I just like the card :)

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile

1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to tourach
2 Painful Truths
1 Vindicate

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower


SB:

2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
2 Choke

[Ralf]

@ Matt:

1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Plains
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Siege Rhino
4 Veteran Explorer

2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile

2 Painful Truths
2 Vindicate
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Abeyance


De Walker Fiterum:

4 Negate might be a little too much (meaning 3 might be enough). But the card is really good.
What I like the most is the ability to sac a veteran and hold the free 2 basics for Negate. This negates (pun intented) anything nasty coming from your opponent during the very next turn.

I wish sometimes Negate could caught a creature spell and I have tried many times to weight the pros and cons of playing Mana Leak instead.
Eventually, even if Mana Leak is 90% a better negate; there is those 10 % where you wish you had a true counterspell instead of a conditional one.

But to draw any meaningful conclusion here, it requires a lot of test against various Legacy deck.

Anyway, for those interested you can test Mana leak instead of Negate and try to lower the number to 3.

I would basically test the following:
-1 Negate
+1 SDT

SDT offers a very nice protection post side against various combo decks.
Floating any counterspell with top is where you wanna be...