After a 4-0-1 last month (BUG Delver 2-0, Eldrazi 2-0, 4C Aggro Loam 2-1, Eldrazi 2-1 and Eldrazi I.D.), I went 0-2 drop yesterday. I switched to Modern and fortunately made 4-0-1 there to rescue the weekend for me.
I lost against Aggroloam, the same guy I beat the month before, but this time he packed Dark Dephts and went insane lucky (everytime he didn't dredge Loam, he topdecked something insane such as Liliana, Punishing Fire, Decay), while at the same time playing in a way that lets me win if I either topdeck Wasteland, Rishadan Port and Flickerwisp. I mean, that gives me 12 outs, which I should eventually draw even in a deck without cantrips. But I didn't. There might be one point where I might have made a misplay, it involved unattaching SoFaI from Batterskull-germ and equipping a Mirran Crusader with SoFaI in an attempt to protect him from topdeck PunFire. However, the result was that my Germ-Token got double-PunFire'd by a topdeck Punishing Fire and I still couldn't get around that stupid Maze. It was a blurry situation, but other than that I'm sure I played it as optimal as possible, and certainly would have won with either of the above mentioned card.
However, the match afterwards I got annihilated by some BURG shitpile with maindeck Lavamancer, Jitte and True-Name Nemesis (no Delvers). It was unfortunate, but g2 he opened with 1st Turn Dread of Night to which I topdecked Mother, Thalia, Thalia while he had TNN again. I went for Stoneforge Mystic into SoFaI because I already had Batterskull and then got double Thoughtseize'd.
I was wondering, is there a non-clunky card beside Council's Judgment that can be boarded against decks that might bring Dread of Night?
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
+1/+1 effects usually see sb play for primarily this situation; Dread of Night, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Golgari Charm, etc. Veteran Armorer, Wilt-Leaf Liege (if they're on black for Dread of Night, they likely are also on discard like Liliana, Hymn, etc) and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar are commonly played sb cards that also have marginal utility vs non-Dread of Night decks. For example, you'd board in Gideon vs something like Miracles.
I think there's a big difference between the 'big' Dread of Night responses (Wilt-Leaf, Gideon) and the 'small' Dread of Night responses (Relic-Warder, Disenchant, Ratchet Bomb, Veteran Armorer). Wilt-Leaf, Gideon, Council's Judgment aren't going to do anything to help you against fast combo (ANT, Reanimator), which is approximately 50% of the time you'll see the card. OTOH Relic-Warder / Veteran Armor are not great against the midrange Dread of Night decks, since they'll just die to some other removal.
Truthfully, the card is just very good against DnT and thankfully it's too narrow for most people to play. I personally think the 'big' responses are too narrow to be worth SB spots for us, and whenever I try playing one I drop it after realizing I'm only bringing it in for something like 10% of matches. Relic-Warder might not beat a midrange deck, but it has value in tons of non-Dread of Night matchups so its overall value as a SB slot is a lot higher.
I like having SB plans that make you less dependent on x/1s rather than SB plans built around protecting them. Lately I have been playing a ton of Mirran Crusaders in the SB and swapping them with x/1s g2/3. This allows you both the power of regular T2 Thalia, T3 Wingmare wins g1 + the ability to play a good grindy sideboard game. Maxing out on Mirran Crusaders and playing a lot of Rest in Peaces (and Ethersworn Canonists for Storm) is a good way to be better against Dread of Night / Golgari Charm decks while not necessarily beating the card itself. If you can ensure yourself at least 2 very good games against their deck, it's fine to lose one to Dread of Night. And it's possible to do that without playing too many 'targeted' SB cards.
Hey all! I finished 17th (6-2-0) at the SCG Columbus legacy classic last weekend, and I thought I'd write a tournament report.
My list was:
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Flickerwisp
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Serra Avenger
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Council's Judgment
2 Warping Wail
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Cataclysm
1 Containment Priest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Path to Exile
1 Spellskite
R1: 2-1 vs Reset Tide
G1: I'm able to curve a Mom into a Spirit and finish him off before he can find a way to remove SotL. I don't see which variant he is on, as I only see him cast a high tide and fizzle.
G2: He goes off before I can get any relevant hate pieces. On top of this, I brought in a needle thinking he was playing candles, but alas, my revoker and needle on candelabra are not enough to stop the combo.
G3: He misses on lands and Thalia is able to slow him down enough for me to swing lethal.
R2: 0-2 vs Sneak and Show
These games were uninteresting, as I mulled to 5 and 4 before getting annihilator 6'd before being able to do anything.
R3: 2-0 vs Death and Taxes
G1: My opponent and I had met at a previous event , so we both groan as we learn we're in for the mirror. He lands a T2 jitte, but I'm able to plow all of his potential weapon carriers before I'm able to Mangara the jitte. Eventually, connect with my own to close out this one.
G2: I have a slow hand and he's able to get 2 SFM's to grab a sword of light and shadow as well as a jitte. Luckily, I'm able to use a pithing needle on the sword and Flickerwisps out my vial to flicker jitte wielders. I finish out the game with a wisp carrying a sword of fire and ice and a jitte.
R4: 0-2 vs TES
G1: I'm up against Caleb Scherer (really awesome guy, by the way) I keep a hand with double Thalia, but he's able to get a probe into a therapy for Thalia. I die to tendrils shortly after.
G2: I keep a hand with double Canonist and a spirit, but with only one land. I was probably too greedy here, and I'm only able to draw land after there are 14 goblin tokens on the table.
R5: 2-1 vs Shardless BUG
G1: I get a T1 mom into a T2 SFM. My spirit makes his two visions look fairly unhelpful, and I grind out the game with batterskull and a Jitte from a second SFM.
G2: I get my board wrathed by a deluge, before untapping and playing thalia. He proceeds to play E-Plague on human, and my hand full of x/1 humans looks really sad against a Garruk Relentless.
G3: The game becomes slow after I spend my turns trying to blank a jitte by hitting its carriers with removal. Eventually, I'm able to resolve a mystic and a giant sword carrying germ takes the game.
R6: 2-0 vs Miracles (creatureless)
G1: I establish 2 vials and a sword before he entreats for 3 out of pressure from ports. I flicker two of them and proceed to win with a crusader carrying the sword.
G2: He gets stuck on lands and I'm able to waste him off of white and red. Once again, my sword carrying creatures carry me to victory.
R7: 2-0 vs Shardless Bug
G1: Double mom helps me swing my batterskull through a wall of Goyfs, and I eventually speed up the clock with my sword.
G2: He mulls into a slow hand, and I get a stoneforge online. He tries to resolve a visions to find an answer, but I have the Warping Wail to counter it.
R8: 2-0 vs Eldrazi
G1: I keep double wisp, crusader, double plains, vial, and a plow on the draw (not certain that was correct, but it got there). I flicker his attackers and plow a Seer before drawing a third wisp for the 9/9 endless one. After revoking his displacer, I'm able to swing lethal.
G2: He plays an endless one for two, and I waste the tomb. He gets in for four before I'm able to get two vials on board and path his endless one, as he hasn't stuck any other creatures. He proceeds to needle vial and remove my two creatures with wails. I then play a stoneforge, but the jitte she finds gets exiled to a thought knot. After plowing the TKS, I spend the next ~8 turns swinging with mystic and porting him off of his only three lands. Eventually, I find a judgment for the needle and vial in more threats while continuing to deny him mana.
Overall, I thought I played pretty well, and I think this mainboard configuration is my favorite as of right now. I'll probably keep playing around with the SB, but it was fairly well put together for this meta (with the exception of the spellskite).
Anyway, thanks to everyone for continually contributing to this thread and helping newer D&T players like myself.
Good Luck and Happy Taxing
I figure someone has already tested it but I'm wondering how people feel about running Eldrazi Displacer. It seems like 8 colorless sources would be decent for the activation and you could sure get some value out of it. Also, 3/3 non-white creature has utility for DoN. Anyone looked into this?
Some people have had moderate success with it: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/402457#online
It is obviously nightmare to deal with if left unchecked in a grindy fair matchups and if you local meta has a lot of those then it should be a good card. I would hate to face it in the mirror, you pretty much would need a STP or Revoker immediately or you're gonna just lose.
But a 3 mana 3/3 with the potential for upside is still quite slow for legacy. It doesn't pressure their mana or have evasion (Wingmare/Flickerwisp) or dodge any deck's removal (Crusader/Brimaz). So it's pretty unreliable as a beater and doesn't have any immediate disruption attached.
For Mono-W (and maybe even Imperial) I think it makes a lot of sense as a SB option to bring in to wreck fair matches rather than trying to squeeze it in the main, which is how people have been testing it. e.g. in the list I posted there, he's playing a Brimaz in the board and Displacer main. I think switching those two would have made more sense. He's playing two Caverns, and any list that is playing it should be playing at minimum one.
Lost out in the top 8 of the GPT this weekend with mono-white D&T. It did me well, but Elves was just able to get off to too much of a start. He was able to get to Progenetis before I could find a Counsel's Judgment, which makes things unwinnable. A few interesting things of note:
Lost to Losset-style Miracles in the swiss, bringing my record against it with the deck to something like 1 - 118437857393. For some reason I can never end up getting the advantage in the match.
Beat burn twice, once in a very close three games; the other was a complete blowout where he dropped Pyrostatic Pillar but I actually outraced him in damage with a SoFaI equipped Serra Avenger.
Vial > Mom + Canonist > SfM + Mirran Crusader > Jitte on Crusader + Containment Priest in response to GSZ > Cataclysm was one of my favorite four turns of the weekend.
Beat Eldrazi in three games. Mom is worthless, but Gideon from the SB making a blocker every turn to buy time worked out well.
Didn't bring in any of the RiP from the board at all through the day, but everything else in the 15 got some time in the main. Sea Gate Wreckage drew me roughly 10 cards over the span of the games I played, but I'm still on the fence between it and another value land.
Is Eiganjo Castle viable in the 3rd Karakas slot? I'm anxious to get to play this, and I'm all of a Karakas, 2 Ports, 2 Avenger and 2 Mangara away from finished. The reason I ask is that I'm much further from playing this if I must wait on the third Karakas. Also, in testing I've had occasional issues with the Legendary status with 3 Karakas.
Castle just isn't a good card, there's not that much small creature combat in legacy (and Thalia has first strike anyway) and it saves your legends from 0% of the commonly played removal spells. You really have to work to come up with situations where the card matters.
You probably can afford to toss Castle in regardless since the downside is very low and you can generally afford to only play 2 Karakas without significantly lowering your win %, it's just not optimal. If you are just playing games locally it's really not something to worry too much about. You probably shouldn't play any Mangara if you are only playing 2 Karakas however.
And yes, you will hit the multiple Karakas hands over time, but the upside of having 3 copies of a plains that can just autowin you the game vs a lot of decks is pretty huge.
It's really not as good. Karakas is used to also disrupt Reanimator and other cheaty decks, and Castle won't protect a Thalia or Mangara from a Bolt. Anyway, I'd suggest sleeving up what you have and starting to get time in. I'm about to do the same with Chaos Elves despite being 2 Cradles short. Just my 2c.
P.S. Mangara isn't necessarily a staple anywhere in the 75 anymore, but most (monowhite) decks run 3 Karakas, 4 Port, and 3-4 Avenger.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
I'm using Mangara to be cute with Eldrazi Displacer. Thanks for the input. I'll be here more frequently soon.
I was really looking forward to Displacer being awesome, but it didn't end up doing enough for the pretty high associated mana requirements. I'd love to hear if you end up making it work out.
I'm also looking for a 3-color Brainstorm deck but haven't really found much that speaks to me.![]()
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
I've tried a Naya build with 3 Mayor of Avabrucks at two local store events lately, went 2-0-1 and 3-1, beating 12 Post, Infect, Merfolk, BUG Delver and Red Sneak/Breech splitting with some Miracles brew and losing to Reanimator (Hit his one of Massacre g3.)
The lists have looked something like this:
4 Thalia
4 Mom
3 Sfm
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mayor
3 Recruiter
1 Magus
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Revoker
1 Vryn Wingmare
4 Vial
4 STP
1 SoFi
1 Jitte
3 Cavern
5 Fetch
1 Plateau/1 Savannah
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Port
3 Karakas
Two separate games I was able to spike wins with bad hands purely off Mayor into Mayor (12 Post and Fish). If your opponent has a slow start and they both flip + you have 2 tokens, that's 16 power on board for a 4 mana investment, which is pretty absurd. This mana for this build still feels a bit fragile and I'm not going to take it to a competitive event, but there's definitely a deck in here somewhere.
Ten years ago, I was aching for competitive Legacy. I could talk about it online, but as far as I knew there was nothing in the state of Florida at all. I was so desperate once that I actually fronted the prize - a Grim Tutor (which I lost in the finals) just to try to drum up interest. But life happens, and I don't get out much for tournaments anymore, even though there is a good one weekly, 3 minutes from my door organized by David Winsauer and the excellent Southfloridamagic crew. And lemme tell you - it KILLS me to drive past it all-the-time!
But this Sunday the stars aligned and I made it with my friend, Travis.
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Warping Wail
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
SB
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Council's Judgment
2 Cataclysm
This is not even close to a tuned list for either this environment or, probably any environment. Here goes:
----------Rd 1: John with Shardless
g1: I confessed to John that I was feeling rusty before we even finished shuffling. He was pleasant enough, and he opens with Underground Sea ->Ancestral Vision, betraying his entire deck's contents. Recollection tells me this is a good matchup, so I happily start in on him. Waste his land, pass. He plops down a fetchy and passes. Me: Plains, go. He Brainstorms and I am holding the singleton Spirit of the Lab. I see him draw those cards and it feels like I'm being robbed of the whole tournament here in round 1 game 1 simply because I lost the die roll. I got it down just in time to catch Vision, but he had the Decay to handle it on his upkeep. Drat! No matter, he simply could not draw enough lands and I ground him down while he held a fistful of cards.
g2: This was a fun game for me with Karakas into Thalia, followed by Revoker (on Deathrite Shaman - he had two eventually), followed by Mangara with the means to recur him. Shardless is slow, so while he got stuff going, it was just too little to matter in the face of this and the fact that he scooped with just one land left. John correctly pointed out that my three creatures made it virtually impossible for him to ever resolve another spell. Yep, now I remember tournaments.
1-0
----------Rd 2: Brandon with Dredge
see video coverage at 29:00
https://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/62575490
g1: On my turn 2, I knew I was facing Dredge. He had a Lion's Eye Diamond on the battlefield. I had to decide whether to go Revoker on it in hopes that he either would not see what I could do, or that the timing would be bad for him. He had told me that he plays often at a different store (coolstuff games), and he played his turn 1 quickly and efficiently. Given this, I thought he was likely to sac the LED in response, probably ending me. So I figured that the Revoker gamble was a bad one, and I went with Jitte.
g2: Brandon was clearly not happy with how interactive game 1 had been. I don't think he had ever experienced anything like that with Dredge. My seven included Containment Priest and three lands, so I kept. Cage would have been a perfect turn 1 play, but there is just the one copy. Anyway, he manages six 2/2 zombies on his turn 2 while I have...Plains. He Therapies me and names Swords to Plowshares in the same breath. You can see my hands up, asking him to wait for a response. He was cool about it, but I had topdecked Enlightened Tutor on my turn 1, so I used it to fetch RIP, which really should not have been enough to save me.
Things very much broke my way this entire match. Brandon had a fine line of play in both of the games, and Jitte is just about the only card that can win g1. And I had to have either Mom or Vial turn 1 to get it going offensively on turn 3. Then I was able to dodge his Therapies because I topdecked the tutor in g2. Because of Cabal Therpay, simply having Containment Priest in hand was not enough (I don't know why he did not take it from me, btw - his Bridges were all gone so the Priest would have prevented him from getting any more creatures). Finally, the topdecked Flickwerwisp was pretty much the best card I could have drawn. Brandon was gracious, but confounded how the games went the way they did. This was starting to feel just like old times.
2-0
----------Rd 3: James with Infect
g1: Another classy person who knew his deck well. James went first with Inkmoth Nexus. I think I Wastelanded it. I think I Wastelanded his second land also after a Brainstorm. He never really recovered from that and I tempo'd my way to victory. Infect is a crappy matchup for me. I think this is true for all D+T players, but I'm not sure. For me though, I just don't feel like I have the right tools.
g2: James effectively slow rolls me. My StP was kinda meh, and he did me in with an inkmoth, Agent, and the usual tools. One of the things that hurts so bad about this matchup is just how good Hierarch is. I had her revoked and she still kicked my butt.
g3: Finally I get to go first. Plains, Vial -> go. This time James had the speed draw, but I got Thalia out on turn 2 and that made all the difference. I kept attacking with her because that deck almost never blocks. Again I had Hierarch revoked, but I went first and had a clock. He saved his inkmoth at his eot with Vines of Vastwood, which he had been saving (along with 2 mana to cast it through Thalia), and I was concerned. But Thalia made him need too much mana to kill me with the inkmoth on his next turn and he scooped to lethal on the table. Phew!
3-0
----------Rd 4: Danny with Omni
ID
3-0-1
----------Rd 5: Josh with Esper
ID
3-0-2
----------Top 8: Paul with Jund
see video coverage at 4:19:18
https://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/62575490
g1: I did not initially know what Paul was on, but he revealed that this was his first top 8. This knowledge impacted a lot of my decisions including a questionable attack with Brimaz. What a slog. That deck is full of bad stuff for D+T, and he started game 1 with Deathrite Shaman into Punishing Fire on my Revoker to make that clear. I got him down to like 7 life or something, and the game went on so long that I forgot that I had even hit him when I boneheadedly attacked Lilly instead of his dome for the win. I remembered a moment too late. Rusty. What was tough was the fact that I had revoked the not-yet-present Liliana the turn before (not the Deathrite Shaman, as the commentators assumed), and he killed the Revoker just before he untapped and got Liliana blind off the Bloodbraid Elf.
g2: This one went pretty long too, and I probably would have been fine if he did not topdeck three removal spells in a row. Also, in hindsight, I could have killed the Tarmo if I had triple blocked it with Mom still out there. Whatever, that is what it is like to face Jund.
g3: I got RIP. He did not get Abrupt Decay. That set him back enough to ride in easily in atypical fashion for D+T.
4-0-2
Top 4 split. Fine with me. I was paired with Danny (Omni) again, and I did not care to face yet another bad matchup. What a hostile environment this had been. Anyway, fun times. I hope nobody copies my 75. The Warping Wail was annoyingly stuck in my hand the one time I drew it, and my sb was an affair of "what do I have handy?" rather than an actual design.
On a side note: Travis had a KILLER new combo deck that we worked out the broad strokes to the night before. Skill Borrower, Phyrexian Devourer, Altar of Dementia. You can make your Skill Borrower big enough to mill the opponent completely (or just use Triskelion a la the ooze deck) by just activating it a bunch of times while it has the Devourer ability. With these on the stack, you get to choose whether to use the top card before devouring it. Just keep going until you get to the kill card. Worldly Tutor and Enlightened Tutor make this extremely consistent. The only problem: Devourer has unnecessary errata making the removal of the top card a cost and not an effect. We realized it after round two, so he did not have a fun tournament. Otherwise, I would be writing about that today instead of D+T.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Congrats on the finish, and thanks for the report!
I know you said the list was unoptimized, but why did you bank on Brimaz main instead of Crusader, Avenger, or other staple beaters? I imagine that you must have those, and using Brimaz was an intentional decision.
I'm starting to like the Tutor plan more. I was at GP Seattle facing Dredge with 3 RIPs and no Tutors in the board. Sided in the RIPs for G2, kept an opener on the draw with RIP, first turn Therapy naming RIP takes it. Having RIP is no guarantee of success, but making them guess between RIP and Tutor is at least another game you make them play.
Yeah, it's not the mana ability that kills you.![]()
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
With GP Sydney (side event's only) and Eternal Masters (Australia's only Eternal weekend) coming up, I've been doing a lot of online testing on Cockatrice (because dat price of Ports on Modo) and I've been having the best results with Mono White taxes. As much as I like R/W, I've been overall rather displeased with the overall low attacking power level of the deck. Pia and Kiran have been great, but they haven't completely solved the decks problems unfortunately. The Eldrazi matchup can sometimes be a cakewalk if you go Vial into Stoneforge into Moon, dodge TKS, but overall it's been playing out rather badly for me with taxcake (4-7). Mono-white however has been shining against Eldrazi, with my record being 11-3 against Eldrazi.
With that said, I'm looking to go back to mono-white with the following list which has been doing well for me online.
4 Æther Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Karakas
8 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
SB: 2 Cataclysm
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Nevinyrral's Disk
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Warping Wail
The disk is mainly for Eldrazi, but I could also see it being decent against other midrangey creature-control decks like Maverick and Stone/Deathblade.
Just after some thoughts from you guys on the admittedly, very stock list.
Also, is Cavern #2 better than Sea Gate #1?
Cheers.
The same.
Kirby, I have never understood why the Tutor sideboard fell out of favor. I don't see a strong argument against it, and it gives you more virtual copies of a variety of hate cards. Also, Brimaz was simply in the deck because I had been playing casual. Brimaz is fun in casual.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
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