I feel that most Miracles players know how to defeat Lands in a game 1 with the types of competitive hands they're likely to keep. Because of this I think Abrupt Decay (or K-Grip if that's your thing) is a requirement for maindeck. Sacrificing lands in the main deck hurts a lot but it's for the greater good. Plus, there's bonus splash wins for playing Abrupt Decay (X more answers to DRS and Delver, for instance!).Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I understand about the streamlined game one but there's nothing saying we can't play a more patient game. I mean, look back since I've started posting in this thread! I've loudly claimed that 4 Depths and 4 Crop Rotation isn't needed if we're just patient. With X game one uncounterable answers to threats we have more of a controlling game.
P.S., Thrun is the business against Miracles.
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I will probably be testing without Karakas for a bit, as I do not use it super ofter. I like MB Decay because T1 Blood Moon/Chalice are not uncommon where I play. In a less known meta, I'd feel comfortable moving it to side.
The top 8 of Bazaar of Moxen is pretty hostile to lands.
1 Grixis Delver
1 Eldrazi
2 ANT
1 Belcher
1 Miracles
1 Elves (with Ruric Thar! Pack your Karakas!)
1 BUG Thing in the Ice brew
I don't know about you all but I only want to play against Grixis Delver and the random BUG deck.
Keep this in mind for GP Columbus as people will be looking to BoM for ideas even though it's the European metagame.
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On abrupt decay:
Just wanted to say that in my last set of videos i faced miracles four times and didn't win a single first game, even with abrupt decay maindeck. Straight rg still feels better to me. I've been running three pyroblast as part of my anti combo package and have really liked it. Good against Miracles too.
What was the shortcoming(s) against Miracles game 1? In what way did Abrupt Decay fail to get there?
I played REB in the past, during Dig OmniTell era and it was reasonable. How is it these days?
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About Pyroblasts - I think they were a fine sideboard option during the dark OmniTell era where Miracles and OmniTell were literally everywhere. Now, I wouldn't want to run them. They're pretty bad versus non-Miracles blue decks because most of the spells that Lands cares about are non-blue such as Deathrite, Surgical and various hate pieces like Blood Moon, Null Rod, Winter Orb, Needle etc. The issue with Pyroblasts against Miracles is they're super dead draws after a Counterbalance hits. With access to Green and Black I think there are much better hate cards and high impact cards against Miracles than Pyroblast - not to mention Pithing Needle, which I always like running.
Regarding Karakas - although I personally run it, in my opinion it's the most "cut-able" utility land from the 75. It's pretty weak versus Show and Tell/Reanimator and it really only helps out with keeping creatures like Thalia and Gaddock Teeg out of your face without investing more than a simple Karakas activation. Yeah you can Punishing Fire them too, but it wastes more of their time recasting/revialing them in hoping to slow you down. It's also helpful versus the "Lost Legends" of Legacy that randomly show up from time to time, like Tasigur, Ruric-Thar and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Overall though - I wouldn't go out of my way to run Karakas.
Lastly, about the "Belcher Resurgence". It's actually not that unfavourable matchup as most people would think. Yeah they can sometimes just Belcher you on T1 with you having no recourse but the way the deck is constructed you can easily Glacial Chasm lock out that deck and 50% of their hands are Empty Hands which can be dealt with easily with Tabernacle.
A friend of mine (who has access to essentially every competitive Legacy deck) was bragging to me how he just finished buying up the pieces for Belcher and how he would steamroll me on Lands. I debated that it was not as bad a matchup as he would believe so we made a dinner bet that I could win at least 5/10 complete best 2/3 matches. I won 6/10 by the end of the night and dinner was sweet : )
I would say Lands is favored against Eldrazi but I guess I could be wrong. GP columbus will probably be a ton of Miracles and a ton of Eldrazi, I would expect ANT to be good in that's meta.
I wouldn't mind Elves but that matchup is fucking annoying. I'm also the masochist that enjoys playing the Miracles MU, it's usually pretty grindy and interesting post-board.
Well, I don't like ANT, and of course I like some fairer MU's, but it doesn't look like a complete shit-storm.
Oh, you guys saw who won? Absolutely insane!
EDIT: and to give you a hint: look at the picture, not at the results.
Last edited by Chatto; 05-08-2016 at 03:50 AM.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
To barcode:
Not saying that Abrupt Decay failed or anything. Just saying that having three maindeck isn't enough to give us a good game one against Miracles. We'd need four maindeck and good ways to get them into our hand.
To Hyp3rion:
It is true that Pyroblast isn't great if Counterbalance hits the field, but if it does, we've got K-Grip to make it live again. It is also true that REBs aren't great against non-blue combo decks like Belcher and BR Reanimator, but I'm willing to have a little less game against these decks (which I would consider rare) to have a card that is good at hitting a slew of things that give us trouble. And I'm not sure why I'd want my anti-combo pieces to hit Blood Moon or Deathrite Shaman. I'm using them instead of Thorn effects, not Abrupt Decay--but that's actually why I like Pyroblast. They fit into the board as part of the seven (or eight) anti-combo pieces, but you can also bring them in to hits things like Counterbalance or Meddling Mage. Not saying they're what I'll always play, but so far I've liked them.
In my testing with Eldrazi I found the match to be very slightly in favour of Eldrazi. The reason is they don't need to cast Endless One as a 2/2. Once they start making creatures with toughness >2 Punishing Fire isn't as good. THE MOST important part of the matchup is a quick combo that doesn't rely on 1-drops (they play 4 Chalice). Punishing Fire can't be sided out at all. They have Wasteland too so don't lean heavily on Chasm lock or you could be a sad panda when they alpha you after wasting it. Eldrazi is definitely winnable but it's not easy.
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I would not recommend bringing ANT to a room full of eldrazi. Chalice, TKS, and thorn of amethyst are a nightmare for them. If the eldrazi deck scares people off of ANT, belcher and TES may be the storm decks of choice which might be a tad easier for lands to fight. I think Grixis delver may be a popular choice for the foreseeable future since its got game against miracles and eldrazi, and we can prey on that deck while still having game against the other two :)
I would take us over Eldrazi every time in that matchup. They are a dog to Wasteland, have issues with Maze, Port and Tabernacle and they are while able to be fast, not great at dealing with someone that can roadblock their mana.
I like that Eldrazi is in the Meta, they really do help attack our worse matches while giving us a very winnable one in replacement.
Something to note about that matchup. Tabernacle gives the cost to the creature, it becomes an effect of that creature. Due to this, Temple can be tapped to pay for two Eldrazi under a Tabernacle.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
This is not correct.
Eldrazi Temple says it can be used to pay for activated abilities. Tabernacle's granted ability is a triggered ability and not an activated one. Remember, activated abilities look like Cost:Ability with a colon notably between the two pieces.
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I've been testing R/G Lands against Eldrazi and its not a bad matchup, however it can be really nasty depending if they are running wastelands, or if they are running the W based version with Eldrazi Displacer. Ive also been testing Ghost Quarter again, and its been pretty solid. I also bring in Primeval Titan in this match as well, in case they have Displacer or Karakas. Sometimes Titan is win more, but there have been instances where Primeval Titan won me the game for me against Eldrazi.
I also had a hilarious game against Reanimator where they played Show and Tell, and dropped Tidespout Tyrant, and I dropped Primeval Titan and got Two Wastelands, Wasted both his lands, swung on my turn and got a Tabernacle and another wasteland. It was pretty sweet.
Currently My list is 61 cards (Standard R/G list + Ghost Quarter, Might Cut Riftstone Portal to bring down to 60)
Board Looks Like:
4 Chalice of The Void
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Primeval Titan
1 Boseju ,Who Shelters All
1 Karakas (Flex Slot, Could Be Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle)
I've also considered running 2 Phyrexian Revokers in the Boseju/Karakas slots, mainly to stop Top, as well as stopping LED in the Storm Match. It also is pretty good against DRS & Sneak Attack I considered needle, but I like the fact that Revoker can come down with Chalice @1 and as a former painter player I know a single Revoker can go the distance against miracles, and having them use a STP or Terminus on it is fine by me. Boseju is only decent in the Miracles match, and Karakas is only decent in the SnT & Reanimator Matchups. Revoker is good in Multiple Matchups. But with anything, it warrants testing. Also in testing Primeval Titan has been really good.
What I thought although I haven't found anyone that says that you can't pay for two like that (nor have I found much of anything regarding that)
Is it just me or does it seem like Lands is falling in popularity?
Or maybe it's just the overall meta pushing this deck out of the format?
I rarely see it on camera.
Opps. My bad.
It's not easy to play right. I have been playing Jund Depths or Combo Lands for over 2 years and I still fuck up. Its also not cheap. (What is really) I think Lands is more popular in some locations than it is others but I don't think it's popularity is dropping.
I mean, I don't seen many people put the deck down once they own it, we see the same names playing it and the same names posting here. It's not like Delver where you can pick it up and the switch to something else, then come back. It's a deck you have to want to play, have to enjoy playing and have to be driven to Master. (Don't I sound portentous)
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Lands is popular in Toronto. I like to think because I've played it for so long and have inspired people. :)
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Check my sig, there are still MU's to find. I know some can only be found on Twitch, and of course I could copy-paste them, but you know: copyrights. Overall, if I find a new vid on YT I will add it to the playlist.
About populair or not: it's just you pour a lot of money into this deck, but you can't really transport them to another deck. Nothing to do with popularity, rather the lack of 'family tree', like Delver for instance. Friends of my like to play the deck (some can), but to commit is a different story. I was fortunate enough to have some staples because of other 'fringe' decks, and was able to affort a Tabernacle before the Great Spike.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
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