The other option is to go back to the black splash and play Slaughter Games again. I haven't seen the list, but if they are relying on a Nahiri ultimate to win the game we have a lot more time to do our thing, such as get an ensnaring bridge into play.Originally Posted by GradStudent
I don't think this will be a real thing, so I think spending so much time worrying about it is kind of questionable... but having looked at the list given in that image, it seems pretty favorable to us.
I think people get way to caught up on not being able to activate Grindstone for the win, to realize that sometimes that is irrelevant. From my experience trying to force though a quick grindstone activation against miracles puts you on a losing path. Sometimes you stick it and win, sure, but often they have answers and because you traded a monkey, or petal or city, your down cards and in a bad spot.
IMO the number one goal when you play Miracles is keeping CB from resolving. With that in mind I play it a little slower and try to run combo pieces out there after goal one is reasonably secured instead of expending resources forcing it through. Because from my experience when you try to run the combo out quickly is when they counterpunch and gain a strong control position. Sometimes you just win, that's true, but I think counting on that in a deck that has as many answers as miracles is wrong.
So, given this topic, I was also thinking of ways we could abuse Nahiri and realized that as an alt win con, you could play the RIP/helm combo and Ult Nahiri to go find Helm for the win. That would also be a decent answer to the Emrakul menace. In general, I agree that this is not the end of the world even if Miracles does start to play this. It just makes our game one MU worse.
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Nahiri against us is a bit awkward because it's not Blue, and it's not uncommon for them to fetch a basic plains, but I don't think it's impossible to deal with game one. We should have access to ensnaring bridge.
+ Plus we've got speed bumps in Revoker and Painter + Blast /Jaya. Sure it's not great, but maybe with a few tweaks we can be prepared. What else can we add or do to deal with Nahiri / planeswalkers.
We could splash Black for Slaughter Games, but I feel that's not the right direction to take, for reasons already pointed out.
Played in a local legacy Swiss with shortcake tonight. It was only three rounds of Swiss but I only played two since my 3rd round opponent and I agreed to split and I needed to get home anyway. Not a great sample but between tonight and online I think I might be set with r/w as opposed to mono red even though I never sided in my nahiris.
5 red fetches
2 plateau
4 mountains
1 great furnace
4 ancient tomb
3 city of traitors
4 painters servant
4 imperial recruiter
3 goblin welder
2 simian spirit guide
1 magus of the moon
1 phyrexian revoker
1 Jaya Ballard
4 blood moon
4 grindstone
3 enlightened tutor
4 pyroblast
2 red elemental blast
3 senseis divining top
3 lotus petal
1 ensnaring bridge
1 lions eye diamond
SB
3 lightning bolt
2 containment priest
2 sulfur elemental
2 nahiri harbinger
1 rest in peace
1 duergAr hedge Madge
1 thorn of amathyst
1 ethersworn canonist
1 ensnaring bridge
1 sphere of law
Round 1 vs storm
G1: he wins on turn three while I have the combo on board just waiting for next turn to activate
+1 ethersworn canonist, +1 thorn of amathyst, +1 rip, +1 duergAr, +1 sphere of law, -1 welder, -1 Jaya, -1 blood moon, -1 ensuring bridge, -1 imperial recruiter
G2: t1 I play tomb, exile spirit guide, cast recruiter and grab canonist. I had a fetch and a city in my hand along with a painter and a grindstone. I jam the canonist and the grindstone next turn. He end of turn chains my canonist but can't go off from there. I combo him out next turn.
G3: I don't know if he thinks I boarded out the moons but he ends up fetching for non basics and I end up locking him out with blood moon with the combo on board. Waited 3 turns for a third mana source and won.
Round 2 vs 12post
G1: my opponent and I have both played each other frequently and each of us know what the other is on. I turn one magus of the moon on the play off a city and petal and begin the beats. With the magus and a goblin welder. He's able to break out of the lock with his expedition map after I had already gotten him to 7 life. He ends up being able to get a primeval Titan on play and end up swinging with him. I'm able to end of turn tutor for a painter's servant and with 2 blasts in hand I blast his Titan and continue the beats to victory.
+1 ensnaring bridge, +1 duergAr, +1 rip, +2 containment priest
G2: he has two needles on grindstone while I have the combo out plus rip. I have a board of recruiter, painter, magus, revoker on map, and containment priest and beat him down.
My round three opponent would have been death and taxes which I wish I could have gotten more practice against especially since I'm new to having sulfur elementals in the board. We decided to split and each walked away with 4 packs of soi.
Anybody have anything they would have done different in these match ups? Against storm I have found that when I play online some people board in empty against me. The round 1 opponent said that he didn't because he typically doesn't against other combo decks. Is this the norm? I might not have brought in the sphere of that was the case although painter on red with a resolved tendrils would just be too funny. So glad I didn't have to play miracles. I only saw one player on that deck. I think this is the longest I've gone playing shortcake without switching back to monored. It really does allow for a lot more flexibility with your sideboard.
Unfortunately, sphere of law doesn't work with tendrils, as tendrils is loss of life. I have had multiple people play empty the warrens against me when playing storm. I would definitely have something in the deck to deal with it (sphere, EE, sudden demise, etc).
Overall, your side boarding seemed good although I think welder is actually stronger than hedge-Mage as you can sometimes sneak an LED out of play before they are ready to use it.
Also, I got to finally watch Joe Lossett play some games with "Nahiri Miracles" the other day. I was actually really impressed with how well Nahiri worked. Makes me wonder if we could better utilize it ourselves. I also wonder if it would be worthwhile to run some sort of "finisher" like Emrakul if we are going to use Nahiri. What have been other people's experience with Nahiri so far?
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This is said before, but I've actually liked her and will be playing her for some while, althought I'm still unsure of how many across mb/sb. Either 1/1 split, or 2 side (which I'm doing atm).
I don't think we should use Nahiri->Emrakul as alternate finish since it's a nonbo with our deck. There's Bridges, and drawing the Emrakul is terribly awkward, as only way for getting i back in library is discarding with Nahiri, which messes with our welder's toolbox. Grindstoning ourself for Welder-food may also trigger this. Besides, ult into combo piece or Recruiter for value is decent enough to set up a win.
Yeah, I agree that Emrakul itself wouldn't be ideal, but what about something else? Would it be worthwhile to invest more into the RiP/helm combo and hit helm with Nahiri? Or Auriok Salvalgers combo out of the board? Or is there another card that individually wins the game? Or is Nahiri good enough (particularly against Miracles) to just drop into the typical build?
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I have been playing around with 2 nahiris and an endbringer. So far I need a lot more testing. I will keep you posted.
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why endbringer?
One thing I've learned is that if this deck can stall enough to ult a walker, it has enough time to win in the way it was designed.
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Actually, I have to disagree with this sentiment. I do understand what you are saying but certain decks can deal with some threats/win cons much better than others. The most obvious example of this is playing against an Emrakul deck. The issue with Miracles is that they can sit on creature removal all day but have a hard time dealing with Planeswalkers. In particular, a Planeswalker protected by a bridge is extremely hard for Miracles to deal with and it will be much easier to ultimate than to win with combo, especially a combo that is creature based.
Actually you didn't really disagree with me. Sure painter-stone doesn't work against emrakul decks, obviously we all know how to beat our own deck. For the last five years I've played the deck with three wincons, all of which aren't any secret: painter-stone, painter-Jaya, and a walker, usually koth.
All painters understand what their deck is about. To lose sight of that is undermining its strengths. That was more or less my point. The good ol shortcake credo
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The thought was that I wanted something that if I drew it, I could still play it late game.
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Nahiri is contributing to the combo by finding the missing piece, or grind us back in. But often she'll eat a counterspell, which is completely fine. I don't think we're abondoning the credo.
However I agree that adding a big creature for ult is a bit too far, as it creates an awkward draw and increases variance in a really bad way.
She's more like Ajani than Koth: she shouldn't be relied on as an alt wincon, but a tool to grind us to our combo.
Last edited by Morcrux; 05-17-2016 at 07:27 AM.
Agree, i side out all painter-grind combo vs emrakul deck.
This is my last result at MkM series and my decklist: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19532&iddeck=148614
Took down this month's Legacy Challenge on Magic Online. Report to come
Strawberry Shortcake
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake
What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
#FreeNedleeds
Fuck yes. Way to go! I was scheduled to play buy my Internet went down!
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That's awesome! Looking forward to the report.
Anyone here going to GP Columbus?
Sure am.
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