Thanks Niklas
I love the new sideboard. I am almost disappointed I didn't try some of these new ideas. I need to think outside the box more often. I had been having issues with Shardless and Eldrazi, and I do feel like the swords will help a lot. I have my local legacy night on Wednesday, and there are several eldrazi decks running around. I will let you know how the new sideboard goes.
Never talk to Niklas before the tournament! He might change your all sideboard in a pinch :)
But yeah, the swords make perfect sense when you think about it, and the crop/lands package was fine.
About Chandra, I am a non believer. See you guys in Prague.
I think I'm also a non-believer about Chandra.. but having now read the whole card it does look really good against miracles. I tend to go "under" with Geeg, Thalia, and Revokers rather than "over" with Garruk and such, so the miracles matchup didn't come to mind. This seems like the perfect card to have if there isn't a Teeg in play.
We are at a high point of decks that don't care about both chalice and decay. STP is a really nice answer to both of these points. I happen to have three shitty cards in by board so they are going in.
How was crop rotation + Bojuka bog? It seem much weaker than Leyline. Is this your way of cheating on SB slots for a low presence of GY decks?
Originally Posted by schniggaz
Hi Nicolas, Congrats on your win! That is some transformational sideboard! But now without leyline of the void, what is your strategy and sb plans against Lands like? I always find myself advantaged if i manage to land a leyline, if not they will just waste lock us out of the game. Thanks!
Exactly. Playing two Leylines is just not the way to go, since you can hardly mulligan into it. Of course you cant mulligan to Bog or Crop Rotation as well, but at least they are better draws in the game and you can tutor up the Bog with your Knights.
Crop Rotation also acts as a Wasteland, Maze, Karakas and fast Combo whenever you need it.
Please do talk to me. I would be really happy if someone is able to climb to the Top 8 of the next GP with this deck ;)
Leyline was great here, obviously. But you still have one of the best cards against them Maindeck: Knight of the Reliquary. She is so good against them. You should not be afraid to play against Lands. They are more worried playing against you. You do have the same engine in Loam/Wasteland/Cycle/P.Fire, Graveyardhate Maindeck, Mox Diamonds to play around their Landdestruction, good answers to Marit Lage with Karakas, weird Chalices (1 or 2) and again Knight of the Reliquary (they normaly can't kill it game one) to fix mana, kill Marit and kill your opponent. Just make sure not to expose your Karakas to a Wasteland when you could also get it at instant speed. And that is only game one. I did not make any Sideboard-Plans yet, but you should add the Thespian Stage (great at copying opposing Dark Depths), Bojuka Bog, Crop Rotation, Swords to Plowshares, Reclamation Sage and you can even add the Garruk Relentless if they play Maze of Ith. Start by removing the Punishing Fires and Gaddock Teeg, and after that Chalice, Decay and Liliana aren't at its best.
Thanks a lot. Here are some more ideas outside the box I might consider for Prague:
Pithing Needle, Pyroblast and Tireless Tracker. Let's see if someone makes the cut :D
Revoker and Thalia kind of underperformed against Miracles for me. I already have a lot of cards to play in the first 4 or 5 turns against them. You are going to trade a lot of resources here anyways. After the dust has settled it comes down to high impactful spells, like Jace or Mentor on their side. Drawing Thalias and Revoker at that point won't make it. Revoker also dies to Artifact-Removal, which is really bad.
You also need to have a good answer against Mentor, just think of a card like Toxic Deluge. It is great against Mentor+Tokens but so bad when you are facing an unchecked Jace.
Chandra does it all. Besides that she is a Planeswalker, ->hard to kill, and is easy to cast under a Blood Moon :)
Was kidding of course, he is a super friendly guy and gave very helpful insight(as always). Just make sure to bring some sideboard options :)
Didn't ask at Frankfurt but I assume You also bring her aginst the grind matchups, such as Shardless, Jund and similar?
I've actually been running two Pithing Needles in place of the two Thoughtseizes in the sideboard for several months now and I've been really happy about the needles. It helps against the fair and grindy matchups like Miracles and D&T and you can still board it in against combo matchups like Sneak/Show and Elves which is nice.
I was wondering though, did you ever miss having sweepers in the sideboard or you just ignored the decks that go wide with tokens and killed with the Dark Depths combo?
Grats Nicolas on the result, that SB is interesting enough to make me try it out a bit more. Seconding the comment that I'm a bit worried about the GY based matchups without the Leylines, as well as the double Red - though I guess that is better when you can run a couple more fetches instead of the DD combo MD. As for StP against Eldrazi, do you think that there was a element of surprise on that? Will they now board around it with their chalices when they know its a possibility (though that still should not be enough for them to bother keeping Chalices in against us, and if they do, never on 1)?
Seconding this, I feel like we're lacking against DnT , Elves, and Young Pyromancer decks without as many sweepers. Especially since Chandra is way too expensive to typically hit play against DnT, plus that's not a matchup I'm interested in going for DD on either.
I have a question for you Niklas.
A while back there were some discussion regarding having Thoughtseize in the board since it was cmc1. With your new sideboard plans Swords to Plowshares, Thoughtseize, Crop Rotation, Pyroblast, Pithing Needle - does this concluce that you are giving up on the chalice plan?
A lot of your sideboard at cmc1 comes in against decks where I would love to resolve a chalice on 1. How does Pyroblast, Pithing Needle and chalice cooperate? Is'nt there a great risk of having multiple cmc1-spells in your hand with no way of resolving them?
Against which decks would you no longer have chalice? I have to read your new plans as if you are giving it up against decks where I keep them in.
/Markus - going top 32 in Prague.
I did bring it in against Shardless, sometimes they flood the board with Agents and Strixs, and this is one of the easiest ways to deal with all those creatures. Shardless can also deal with all your other threats, which means you just need more threats that don't die to Decay.
There aren't that many good Sweepers. Some of them only give -1 -1, others cost life or a lot of mana. I don't like Toxic Deluge against decks with blue mana. If they counter your Deluge you might have just killed yourself with the Deluge.
Overall I don't think that there are so many decks that go super wide. And as you said, some of them can just be ignored by going over the top with DD.
Elves starts with two or three creatures on the battlefield and one of those creatures can be returned to the hand in one way or the other. Next turn you might be dead. I prefer having hatebears, cheap removal and a fast way to close the game over Toxic Deluge (this is the sweeper you are all talking about,right?).
Rec Sage, Swords, Thoughtseizes, Golgari Charm. These are already so many cards you can bring in against D&T. You won't find more cards to board out. You would just change good cards for other good cards and sideboarding should be about boarding out mediocre cards for good ones.
I do like to have an answer for TNN and Young Pyromancer. But as already told, do not like Deluge against blue decks and Golgari Charm can't kill Deathrite or Delver. Well, TNN isn't played that much and Young P can be dealt with 9 Spotremoval and one Golgari Charm.
Eldrazi leaving in the Chalice for our Swords is great :) Of course they will win one game of 100 games with this line of play, but lose way more games by drawing useless cards and having more bad topdecks.
Forget about Pyroblast. There is no way I will find room for this card. But Needle is definitely something I might consider in the near future.
I won't give up on the Chalice plan but I feel like more decks are well equipped to battle against Chalice-Decks thanks to Eldrazis.
Everyone who questioned Thoughtseize and wanted to play Hymn to Tourach did not understand anything about the Thoughtseizes in the SB. It was all about having more interaction on Turn 1 against combo, since you can't mulligan every hand on the draw without Mox Diamond. And this is exactly where Swords to Plowshares and other CC1 spells shine. Your on-the-draw-games will be way more consistent and you can keep more hands.
Against Delver I want both, Swords and Chalice. As long as Chalice is on the battlefield you should be fine. No matter if you have a Swords uncastable in your hand. And being able to start removing their Deathrites and Delvers on the draw without having a Mox Diamond is just perfect.
I do not want Chalice on 1 after Sideboard against Lands, Shardless, D&T and Eldrazis. There might be more decks, but these are the most important ones.
I even considered boarding out Chalice against Chaos Elves, but this might be too much "Chaos" :D
Congratulations with your awesome result in Frankfurt. I saw you smash my friend on Grixis in R8 (i think) with 2 KotR in G3...
Keep up the good work and thumbs up for Chandra, Flamecaller.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Wow...lots of good information here. I have to say, I have never been able to beat Lands with this deck. They always open up with T1 exploration / manabond and proceed to waste or port me out of the game. Not sure how others feel, but I would love to beat this match up.
I could see myself making room for 2 copies of swords to plowshares, however, it seems dismember could serve a similar role without interfering with chalices and such? I'm hesitant to cut Leylines entirely though.
Is it fair to cut the thoughtseizes due to the lack of fast combo in the meta now? It seems Eldrazi has all but pushed out storm. Show and tell does seem like its on the rise though, which is a terrible MU.
It is hard form me to help you with your problems in the Lands Matchup, because I had pretty good results against them. But lets see what others think about the matchup.
Dismember serves a similiar role. But it has other downsides, BIG downsides. Paying life against Delver is horrible, you take 3 from Bob, worse against Burn (Sword your own guy for example), can't always deal with opposing Knights/Reanimate-Creatures/12Post-Primeval Titan/Veteran Explorers/Ichorids and Nacromoebas and so on, and you are missing out on the sweet Swords+Punishing Fire interaction. They just play in different leagues. Sorry Dismember :(
Cutting the Thoughtseizes for tournaments at your LGS can be correct. But it is Legacy, Combo will never be dead, people play what they are used to and good at, I would always expect to face some sort of Combo Deck at least two times at a GP.
It was Round 8. He is a good player :)
And this was another good example of how good Swords was in the deck. Game 3, otd against 4c/Grixis Delver, Hand: 2x Swords, 4 Lands, Knight. I would have lost by having two mana removal spells in my hand.
Maybe I've been fortunate against Lands, but I've found the combination of Chalice and Leyline is generally enough to put the match firmly in our favor unless they are on the recent Jund build (Abrupt Decay) AND have a great draw.
If they have the "Lands Draw" on the play, I just prepare to move on unless I have a clear line to dig my way out. A Leyline and a Sword (in the recent discussion) in that situation could conceivably get you out of the early game while they stall out by being hellbent and drawing one card per turn.
It's not a perfect plan, but my limited experience with the match-up suggests that it is reasonable.
I second this. In my experience, Chalice is only bad against Lands when we aren't beating them anyway. Setting it at 1 forces them to play fair; setting it at 2 shuts off almost all their relevant spells. This will usually buy you enough time to draw into something useful. We have very few means of interaction that aren't trumped by their good draws; I think disregarding Chalice in the matchup is a mistake.
If it doesn't make n00bs cry, it's probably not my deck.
Maybe I'm just unlucky then. The few times I have won (games, not matches) were on the back of leyline, which is why I don't want to cut it.
I have also had no problems with lands, but if Leylines are not giving you MATCH wins, then does it really matter if you have them? They seem not good enough in the matchup for you.
Looking at your current sideboard, and super curious as to your board plan.
1x Choke
2x Dread of Night (Is this just against D&T?)
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth (I've asked before, but still unclear as to when it comes in)
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Reclamation Sage
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (Has this been enough against Storm? Do you also bring it in for shenanigans against Jitte decks?)
2x Toxic Deluge (I am interested in cutting this per the commentary above, do you feel it is necessary still?
Is your current Lands plan -3 Fires / +3 Swords, and calling it a day? Do you bring in Revoker on Port and also pull Decays?
I'm working out my sideboard plans for Columbus, and have not had any time to test (can't complain, being busy at work isn't a bad thing), so pardon my inquisition!
Well, if I have a decent 6 card hand without a Leyline, I'm not going to mull into oblivion trying to find one while they just durdle until K Grip or make a 20/20 anyways in the first couple turns...
The card does win matches, its just not like vs dredge where I will explicitly mull to one.
Revoker can't name Rishadan Port. I think the card I'm most likely to cut is Choke. Its not necessary to beat Delver, its decent vs miracles but again, we can beat them without the card anyways.
I've only played like 3 matches agaisnt combo lands, so the plan isn't set in stone. I would look to bring in the 3 stp, 2 thalia and 1 rec sage. Sage should have targets, and thalia along with chalices slows down their most broken draws.
I'd cut fpires, dismember, and maybe 1 cycle land, 1 decay
(rec sage is basically a decay)
This matchup so far has been about wasteland fights or navigating a scooze around pfires moreso than any SB card.
Meren comes in agaisnt Shardless, Jund, Eldrazi, nic fit. anywhere where the game will go long enough to zenith out a 4 drop and have creatures in the graveyard for it to recur.
Dread of night: there is a lot of D&T in my meta. Maaybe with the STPs I can try to shave these.
Thalia + Revoker(LED,petal) come in against storm. That plus chalice, zenith and teeg give me a pretty strong storm matchup
I agree that Deluge leaves some to be desired, but I use this against midrange and combo (elves, TES) moreso than tempo. I think I would bring it in agaisnt 4c delver but im not sure. It is not an early game card in the matchup, I would but out force with knights and such before casting the Deluge.
For the sake of completion, we should talk about pyroclasm. it is cheaper than deluge, and hits more than gcharm
Previously I has played deluge party as a bad m-pulse agains nic-fit. With STPs, maybe I will replace them with something. I'd need to test more tho
Last edited by apocolyps6; 05-21-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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