Originally Posted by useL
Sounds reasonable.
Time to figure out a manabase for a 61 card build with 27 lands, Dark Depths and Maze.
4 Wastelands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
6 Fetchies
1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
What else do we need?
2 Red sources (Badlands, Taiga, Plateau)
2 Cycle Lands (Barren Moor, Tranquil Thicket, Horizon Canopy)
1 more black source (2nd Bayou, Urborg)
With two lands that do not make mana and Horizon Canopy dealing damage, Urborg could be quite nice.
My suggestion is:
1 Barren Moor
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoths
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
I would like to have one more Land that can be sacced to Knight, but you can't have it all..
@benjiman13:
Bad matchups are probably SneakShow and Burn. All the others matchups feel at least even. You have the perfect tools to fight all the other decks. That is why I think the Deck is so well positioned and underplayed right now. But of course that is just my opinion and others may think that they actually have a good matchup against 4c Loam
Man, this deck is awesome; that said, i have been running the following manabase since i am playing this deck and have very little problems with it. Difference is 5 fetch. So this gives the extra land to sac for kotr.
2 bayou
1 savannah
1 taiga
1 scrubland
1 badlands
1 forest
1 maze
1 karakas
1 stage
1 depths
1 urborg
1 barren moor
1 horizon canopy
4 verdant catacombs
1 windswept heath
4 wasteland
3 grove
1 dryad arbor
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Elves, Delver and D&T are probably pretty even. Bad match-ups I would also include Belcher, Nic Fit and Painter. Those are all fringe decks but gaining popularity.
One comment though, I think the DD combo is a pretty good way to steal a win against the above decks. I don't think Urborg is worth a slot though, it's a liability against Lands and Eye of Ugin and only helps one of our lands.
Well, in exactly those situations i have been sitting on Urborg in my hand (Storm and Eldrazi), but drawing into Mox i just used it to discard the Urborg. I found situations where i needed it to make enough colors for Liliana more valuable.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G900F met Tapatalk
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Tested yesterday against Shardless all day. Only post side games. Since I only run stage main, I go to 27 lands post board.
boarded out:
4 chalice
2 mox
1 teeg
boarded in:
3 Swords(awesome)
crop(awesome)
dark depths(awesome)
rec sage(meh), still think it is better than a 1of chalice/3rd mox
garruk(awesome)
- Swords are awesome
- I think with the swords, we are allright with 3 decays main(as you previously told me niklas)
- combo is awesome in the matchup
- we can't go below 2 loams or our lilianas get way worse(as you previously told me niklas)
- I am only running 1 cycling(thicket), the other swapped for a basic swamp. Sometimes I miss the cycling land, but the swamp is also pretty good.
- I really need to change the mana config for the swords, missed white too many times.
- got killed by standard allstar special tech To the Slaughter way too many times(1of from sideboard)
To the slaughter seems like hot tech, not going to lie, I would dread having that cast against me.
I have already been running 27 lands and combo main for some time, so I will swap a tranquil thicket for a horizon canopy, and possibly plateau for taiga to accomodate the swords to plowshares in the sideboard. Has anyone considered running tarmogoyf again with Eldrazi around? He also battles quite favorably with gurmag angler in our deck as well.
You're in the market for any 2-for-1 you can get your hands on in the Shardless matchup, so I'd say Goblin Piker + Disenchant is just the ticket. Its also nice to have a way of fighting over library that isn't Decay.
I don't think I've ever played Aggro Loam without Tarmogoyf-he's been great the whole time. With Eldrazi running around now he's concretely more relevant though. Space can be an issue for him depending what else you have going on, unless you play 61.
Nice, I also frequently switch between lands and 4c loam.
Strengths:
-has game against all current decks to beat
-Feels very good against miracles (most noticeable difference from playing lands)
weaknesses:
-bad belcher, burn, and TES matchups.
-with eldrazi being tier 1, many players are way more prepared for chalice than before
-more of a comparison to lands: your miracles and combo matchups are bolstered at the cost of your fair matchups
most difficult deck to face:
if you mean which matchups are hardest to win, the T1 combo decks are horrific to play against but there's nothing testing your skill in those matchups (besides proper sideboarding). just mulligan to hate pieces and hold on for dear life. If you mean what matchup tests your skill with the deck the most, i think the delver, shardless, and D&T matchups are pretty thrilling. Tight play feels particularly rewarding here.
Current Depths List: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bg-hexmage-depths/
Thank you for your answer! I think that Lands are sometime too much linear... that's why I want to change a little! That's true that miracle is quite hard (even with the black splash) and ANT is pretty unwinnable (vs a good player).
In the grindy match up like D&T or Shardless, how do you sb?
I am surprised, I thought that 4c loam was handling pretty easily the delver decks...?
It is handling delver decks relatively "easy". But the nature of delver decks is they are very even vs the field. Additionally, they will bring in answers to chalice of the void and cards like submerge so doesn't mean we can't also bring in cards to increase our percentages vs them.
I haven't tried Niklas' list yet, so i can't speak on sideboarding choices with that one in particular but i suspect his list is better and ill be giving it a run once i find a 3rd lilliana.
Based on my current list (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-05-16-4-color-loam/), id board like this:
D&T: expect graveyard hate. flicker wisps and phyrexian revokers make moxes unreliable. i try not to lean too hard on the graveyard post board.
-4 chalice of the void
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-1 Scavenging ooze
-2 Mox diamond
-1 Life From The Loam
+1 Golgari charm
+1 Toxic Deluge
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Reclamation sage
+2 Dread of Night (personal preference
+1 Containment priest (turns off aether vial, be careful about your own dryad arbor though)
+1 Garruk Relentless (not the best in this matchup, but each time i've played it against D&T, my opponents have told me the card is scary from their perspective)
Shardless Bug:
-4 chalice of the void
-1 Liliana (maybe there's a better cut. good on an empty board, not so good when they have ancestral to recover and you don't. hopefully you find a loam to pad your hand.)
+1 Garruk relentless (another removal spell for deathrite and deathtouch tokens can chump goyfs for days, also out of abrupt decay range makes this particularly good.)
+2 Thoughseize
+1 toxic deluge
+1 reclamation sage (not great but can take an agent out on the way in, and block for a turn while you stabilize)
Current Depths List: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bg-hexmage-depths/
Well no byes for me :(
Played a small GPT today(9 people, 5 rounds + top4). The scene is small but everyone is practicing all day(everyday) for the GP, so I knew it would be a tough one.
List:
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Badlands
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Taiga
1x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Barren Moor
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath
4x Dark Confidant
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
2x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Life from the Loam
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Sylvan Library
3x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Crop Rotation
1x Dark Depths
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
2x Golgari Charm
1x Reclamation Sage
3x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sulfur Elemental
2x Thoughtseize
Round 1: Shardless BUG (2-1)
Out: 4 Chalice, 2 Mox, 1 Teeg
In: 3 Swords, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Crop Rotation, 1 Reclamation Sage, 1 Garruk
Notes: Tested this matchup against same guy for 2 straight days, so we both knew the sideboard plans. I think we are pretty favoured
Round 2: Elves (2-1)
Out: (DRAW) 3 Lili, 2 Bob, 2 Loam, 1 Library, 1 Maze (PLAY) 2 Bob, 2 Loam, 2 Library, 1 Maze, 1 Ooze, 1 Decay
In: (DRAW) 3 Swords, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Crop Rotation, 2 Charm, 2 Canonist (PLAY) 3 Swords, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Crop Rotation, 2 Charm, 2 Canonist
Notes: Lost 2nd game due to trying to squeeze value from a Charm and got killed by Cradle->NO->Progenitus
Round 3: RUG Delver (2-1)
Out: 1 Teeg, 1 Arbor, 2 GSZ
In: 3 Swords, 1 Bog
Notes: Mongoose is a bitch, I like the GSZ but I think it is the only possible cut. Not sure though
Round 4: Grixis Delver (0-2)
Out: 3 Lili, 1 Loam, 1 Teeg, 1 Stage
In: 3 Swords, 1 Bog, 2 Charm
Notes: He usually plays RUG, but lately was playing BUG. So he got me with the Grixis.
Always plays stifle and won him both games, 1 had no chance, the other I found a way after the game...
Round 5: Miracles (ID)
TOP 4: R3,R4 and R5 opp. I got best standing so I play first every round.
Grixis Delver (2-1)
Out: 3 Lili, 1 Loam, 1 Teeg, 1 Stage
In: 3 Swords, 1 Bog, 2 Charm
Notes: Lost first round, but 2 early chalice in game 2 and 3 let me breath and win the games. On the Draw(last game) I brought thespian and Depths instead of Bog.
Always played around submerge which could have won him the game.
FINAL Miracles (1-2)
Notes: I don't have the sideboard plans from this game, buit I sideboarded differently on the play/draw. After checking his list before the games, he packed all the hate against Loam.
From the Ashes, Ruination, Surgical, Rest in Peace, 2 Wear and Tear, Council Judgement(+1 in main), Keranos.
Made a mistake where I play an early Teeg 3rd game which I should waited on.
About the list:
-Super happy with it.
-Canopy fixes the white mana a bit.
-missed the 2nd bayou a bit.
-Did not miss the Depths main.
-Stage is awesome even without the combo.
-Sulfur Elemental is the only card I am quite shakey.
No more magic for me till Thursday before the GP so find the techs for me
Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster.
Been on 4c loam for quite some time now and the biggest legacy event of the year in Australia is coming up soon.
This is my current configuration:
4x Knight of the reliquary
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Dark Confidant
4x Chalice of the void
2x Green sun’s zenith
2x Life from the loam
1x Sylvan library
3x Liliana of the veil
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
4x Mox Diamond
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
3x Grove of the burnwillows
4x Wasteland
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Barren Moor
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Forest
1x Maze of Ith
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespians Stage
1x Taiga
1x Badlands
2x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
SB
1 Arlinn Kord (fun of, will likely play garruk)
3 Swords to plowshares
1 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Thoughtseize
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thalia Guardian of Thraben
I am anticipating quite a bit of price of progress (UR delver and Burn), do you think that this warrants a second basic land?
I have also not updated this in quite some time, I am noticing some variations in terms of number of fetches, MD DRS, a second sylvan library and MD depths.
Other decks I am aware of that will be in some numbers:
UW stoneblade
Shardless BUG
Miracles
I have never really been a fan of a maindeck DRS, however I am also not entirely sure what match ups warrants this inclusion.
thanks in advance
Either is way to late and I can't count anymore or your deck only has 59 cards
If you expect price of progress I would suggest cutting a Bayou/cycling for a swamp.
Not sure but 3 cycling(counting canopy) might be too much.
Against shardless, miracles, and stoneblade, choke seems a fine option.
Hi all,
Very excited to see the work put in before the GPs.
Niklas (and others), a few quick questions about Deathrite:
1. In what situations do you search up DRS with GSZ?
2. In what matchups does DRS really shine?
My thoughts are:
1. If I'm under a Blood Moon, I would much rather search up a Rec. Sage if possible. Although, obviously nice to be able to get a DRS if stuck on two mana under the moon. Similarly, if I have a mox diamond on t1 there is usually a more impact full 2cc spell to play and you don't need the acceleration. If on the draw with no mox, usually I find I need to prioritize interaction over mana development.
2. I guess reanimator, BUG (little cheap interaction?), painter (Blood Moon), and maybe DNT/Imperial Taxes? It seems a liability against Miracles despite the fact they pack Blood Moon.
Finally, it seems to me that the DRS is the 61st card for a lot of the decks with 61. I agree that if you are going to 61 cards, it usually is because of a powerful one-of that is tutorable and adds options, so DRS fits that mold. But is it really necessary? Wouldn't it be better to just run 60 cards?
Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts.
Drs is not a silver bullet like the rest of the 1of green creatures. Instead he is just a high quality turn 1 play, and a jack of all trades. (incidental grave hate, reach, and life gain)
Imo T1 acceleration is super important to the deck (I've gotten the sense that others disagree with me tho). The deck has a bunch of ways to use extra mana, and a lot of the games I end up losing, I'm pinned on mana. DRS is both an accelerant when you want one, and a mana sink when you don't.
He also wins wasteland fights.
+1
In Magic it is about card and mana advantage. We can generate card advantage pretty easily. DRS just helps to up the mana advantage spells in the deck. (in addition the card fixes your mana, can be a threat and gains you some life).
@Pilhas:
I would just put the Dark Depths Main, too. That frees a SB-Slot and just randomly wins you games. I would use this SB-Slot+Bog+Crop to bring back the three Leylines. Leylines have never been bad, I just switched them to Bog+Crop to have more room in the SB. But with DD-Combo Maindeck we don't need that many SB-Slots.
That brings me to the following SB right now:
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Golgari Charm
2 free Slots, one of them should at least be a sweeper
I am going to ask again: Did anyone consider Volcanic Fallout? It just looks so amazing against Grixis/4c Delver, that I would like to give it a try.
I played with it for about a week, then everyone in my meta was off of Delver and Shardless for a bit. I like it a lot if you're running the "stock" set of red sources since that configuration is more red-heavy than your spells themselves are.
Is delver a matchup that you are looking to improve? I can't get the local delver guys to test against me any more. Are they all just terrible?
I think I'm replacing my deluges with 2 clasm. Or a clasm/charm split.
My semi-informed opinion about Fallout is that the uncounterability should only matter against delver/merfolk. Delver's counters are super taxed by chalice, knight, etc so by the time you cast you Fallout they should be out of interaction. Given that you specifically like the uncounterability, maybe this is not your experience with this matchup.
Jund Charm is also instant speed and has some trinket text. Probably not worth looking into, but I figured I'd mention it.
Declaration in Stone is hard to evaluate but is sort-of a 2 mana M-Pulse. If we are doing our LD thing or have a clock the downside is not a big deal. The card might be trash against grindy decks tho.
I did not tested DD main and won't be able till the GP, so I will just go with what you guys find is best.
Volcanic Fallout seems good depending on mana configuration.
Playing with 3 groves+2 red sources should be enough. might be the cards I am searching for. It also helps kill jaces.
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