[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Dalton!]

MY Jund-PW-Build

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon

2 Diabolic Edict
3 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Abrupt Decay

4 Green Sun`s Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Sensei`s Divining Top

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Arlinn Kord
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Ob Nixilis the Fallen

1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
1 Kessig Wolfrun
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills

A little light on Fetches i think.


Cards i was toying with:

Dragon Broodmother
another high CMC Planeswalker. Maybe Chandra Flamecaller or Vraska

[Echelon]

1 GSZ'able 6 mana card is enough. I'm not sure if you'd want RRR in the manacost either.

[Dalton!]

That is exactly i was think when i testet her. Plus she hast up to no effect when she gets a sword.

Would it be possible to play with Evolutionary Leap and Explorer as your only creatures. Leap could replace GSZ. i imagine it as an all PW build. Would that work?

EDIT: Testet it. it Sucks

[Navsi]

I've been trying out some Jund lists recently, sort of running off the discussion of Garruk R + Arlinn, and Master of the Wild Hunt and Huntmaster. Having been looking through the available options, I've noticed that Veteran Explorer, Tireless Tracker, Eternal Witness, Master of the Wild Hunt and Huntmaster of the Fells are all Humans. This is what I've put together:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth (might want to be 4th Tracker actually)

1 Arlinn
1 Garruk Relentless

4 Therapy
1 Pulse
2 Deed
1 Deluge
3 Decay
3 Kolaghan's

3 Top
4 GSZ
1 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Intent

8 Fetchland
4 Duals
6 Basics
1 Tower
3 Cavern of Souls

Cavern gives you huge game against Miracles, since uncounterable one-man-army cards like Huntmaster, Wild Hunt, and Mayor of Avabruck are really a big problem for them to deal with, while Arlinn and Garruk also apply pressure.

Cavern also gives us the possibility of pulling from the Vintage humans list and playing Scab-Clan Berserker out of the board, which can come down on turn 2-3 and cause serious life total problems to most combo and control decks. Since we're more aggressive than most lists and like to run instants (to help us flip the werewolves), the list is also very good friends with Price of Progress. I do want to try fitting Dualcaster Mage in somewhere too.

What do you guys think?

[Echelon]

Still doesn't solve StP/Terminus.

GSZ kinda negates CounterTop already.

[Navsi]

Still doesn't solve StP/Terminus.

GSZ kinda negates CounterTop already.

Swords doesn't interact well with all the creatures that create multiple bodies.

Terminus is only castable so often, and postboard it's probably the first target for Slaughter Games and Surgical Extraction, since this list pressures Jace well when Terminus isn't around.

[Echelon]

So that means your stuff is safe after you've found Slaughter Games or after your opponent has cast one and doesn't have CounterTop on the field.

That's still a lot of uncertainty.

[Navsi]

I'd be surprised if a Miracles player didn't board out their Counterbalances if they see Cavern of Souls in game 1, so I'm less worried about that. We don't have to wait for a resolved Terminus when we play discard spells.

Tracker still gets +CA after getting Terminus-ed. We can Zenith back our threats but they can't get back Terminus without spending a million mana off Snapcaster, and even then it's at Sorcery speed.

The threats take over the game enough that you can afford to make Terminus into a 1 for 1 because you can go wide without overextending.

Miracles is always going to have an answer for everything any list can do. That's what makes it so strong. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into playing cards which are harder for Miracles to deal with. Making all their answers bar Terminus inefficient and awkward, and then exiling their Terminus-es, seems like a reasonable game plan to me. At least, it looks better than 'make Rhinos and hope I somehow get there'.

[Echelon]

It's certainly better than "Go, team Rhino!", I absolutely agree with you there. I'm just not sure that you wouldn't be better off running some more Planeswalkers - that's what they have the hardest time answering.

[emuhell]

I still like his line of thinking and an uncounterable Explorer would be valuable against a number of decks other than miracles (namely delver.dec and shardless.dec).

[Ulysse95]

I still like his line of thinking and an uncounterable Explorer would be valuable against a number of decks other than miracles (namely delver.dec and shardless.dec).

And a lot more: Eldrazi, Stompy, Mud... Cause you can send in a Vet throught calice even without deed/decay.

[Ulysse95]

Report of yesterday local tournament with my Rector/Starfield Fit:
16 players 4 rounds.
2-1-1
(I was on the draw for all the games)

R1* 2-0 against D&T (hello humility)

R2* 1-1-1 against Merfolks
(lost the one with a mana flood. 2nd hello Doomwake Giant completed with a 5 enchant starfield. On the 3rd, had humility and Curse of death's hold in hand. I cabal then cabal back on Vet. So his hand his with image, TNN and Venser. I chose to remove image has it's the lower cost. Then cast humility. Planning to cloture with the Curse the next turn. But he top deck a Fow. Then the game dragged until time out without finding a starfield or Solid grove.)

R3* 2-1 against aggro Eldrazi.
(Win the first one:
T1 Oeil of Ug into Endless one / I cabal successfully on TKS.
T2 +Chalice / GSZ into Vet.
T3 Block Endless with Vet'; + Jitte / Deed
T4 Deed on attack + Matter Reshaper / GSZ into chromanticore for the win
I put in Endbringer but I Faith's Fetters it.

Turbo win of his with Mimic/Smasher for the 2nd

The third was a tight one. I don't remember well everything, but I cabal again successfully into TKS. He drop several Endbringer, I Faith's Fetters one and bring in chromanticore which monopolyze the second one, which make him draw at his turns. Courser and chromanticore prevent him to attack with his 2 mimics. LoftV edict and fell under Endbringer ping. Smasher came in too late to race thanks to Curse of the Death's hold (which clears mimics) + chromanticore first strike. Then Courser + SDT lead me to rector into humility for the win while a third Endbringer was coming in.

R4* 1-0 against Lands-Eternal garden

T3 set up for Marith Lage made me rectoring into humility sooner than wanted.
Rishadan blocked my only W source for too long even with SDT.
The game was very long. He didn't find his punishing until the 20 last cards or so.
I didn't find a starfield or tutor soon enough along with a W source in hand.
Then tabernacle + Rishadans + Ghosts quarter.
He finished with less than 9 cards in library and 2 life.
The bell rang just before begining a 2nd.

So I tried to push it until the end but it seems it was not so relevant. Too bad, I missed a few attack phases at first to not bring down my creatures against a recursive Marit Lage. But he didn't chose that way and effectivly it would have took him more ressources freeing my own lands. Getting some experience from that I hope.

So the NB:

-Recycle was eventually a bad idea. It stuck once or two in my hand. And I didn't find any situation where the set up would have been in it's favor to fetch it. Perhaps find it a side spot against miracle only..? Or simply too greedy. I will put it aside for now.
+As tracker is new in my list I didn't bring the best of it, but I saw it's potential (like landing a fetch before a zenith to 3 thinking about courser then realising I would have bring in tracker if I didn't had put that damn fetch in play before)
+Faith's Fetters is really good dealing with out of reach creatures, Planeswalker and eventually tools lands. + 4 life is really a big help.
+Doomwake Giant is huuge! (It's a giant afterall)

So my current list:

1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Chromanticore
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring -> Faith's Fetters
1 Recycle
2 Dead Weight
2 Starfield of Nyx
2 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Aura Shards
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

[Navsi]

- That list doesn't have any Faith's Fetters in it?

- I still think Chromanticore is a problem on the manabase. Have you tried running an evasive Zenithable threat (Sigarda, Dromoka) and an Eldrazi Conscription?

[AtticusBlaqk]

I'm surprised to see Doomwake Giant without the accompanying Pharika, God of Affliction tech.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ricardio]

how do you cast chromanticore if you draw it? What about eidolon of blossoms since you have GSZ?

[Brael]

Cavern gives you huge game against Miracles, since uncounterable one-man-army cards like Huntmaster, Wild Hunt, and Mayor of Avabruck are really a big problem for them to deal with, while Arlinn and Garruk also apply pressure.

Cavern also gives us the possibility of pulling from the Vintage humans list and playing Scab-Clan Berserker out of the board, which can come down on turn 2-3 and cause serious life total problems to most combo and control decks. Since we're more aggressive than most lists and like to run instants (to help us flip the werewolves), the list is also very good friends with Price of Progress. I do want to try fitting Dualcaster Mage in somewhere too.

What do you guys think?

I've thought of Cavern off and on. On one hand I like it because it makes the mana situation a bit better, on the other it removes a lot of fat from the deck and it seems to me that gimping your creature suite in order to run a land that just gets blown up by Wasteland isn't where you want to be. If anything I would want it as a sideboard option to ensure Vets get through, but even then I'm not sure.

[Onua1]

Hi Guys,

I've been lurking for months now, and I finally ponied up and made an account to join in.
I will be plan on taking this list to GP Columbus. I began with Rhino Fit, but as everyone has seen, its not as good as it once was. I'm looking to update//change it to improve it.
The environment on this primer has been really accepting and I would like to thank you for being so open, I probably wouldn't have had the courage to join in the discussion without you great people.

Ok so here is my list:

2x Swamp
3x Forest
2x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Bayou
1x Taiga
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Karakas
1x Phyrexian Tower

3x Pernicious Deed
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Siege Rhino
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thragtusk
2x Tireless Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer

3x Abrupt Decay
1x Anguished Unmaking
3x Path to Exile
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Painful Truths


Sideboard
1x Engineered Plague
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
2x Price of Progress
3x Slaughter Games
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Thoughtseize

I know it needs work, I hope you guys don't mind

[square_two]

Anyone ever try Uba Mask against Miracles? Might be a -tad- slow, but it basically forces them to immediately use all cards drawn within the turn drawn or else they lose them. Shuts off miracle triggers since it is a replacement effect (I believe). We generally can play everything we draw, especially once we have 4 mana sources to play the mask.

Doesn't really deal with Jace, although throwing a wrench in his +0 is nice. Not quite sure what other matchups it could shine against. Anything cantrip-heavy, I suppose, but it can be slow to get to the board, and stuff like Storm could have a hellbent hand and then use Brainstorm to "draw" 3 with no downside if they go off that turn. Then again it might just better fit into some sort of prison strategy. Just didn't see it discussed on this thread (forgive me if my search fu too weak).

[Ulysse95]

- That list doesn't have any Faith's Fetters in it?

- I still think Chromanticore is a problem on the manabase. Have you tried running an evasive Zenithable threat (Sigarda, Dromoka) and an Eldrazi Conscription?

how do you cast chromanticore if you draw it? What about eidolon of blossoms since you have GSZ?

- Yeah, I forgot to update this part.. ^^'
So it's -1 Oblivion Ring and +1 Faith's Fetters

- Until now it was barely not a problem. I'm not the happiest to find it in an opening hand or draw it in the early game. But it can be avoid with SDT or discarded with Lili. And in most of the games, it made a huge difference (So Ricardio, if I draw it, I have to get Starfield on the field and discard it on Lili or ultimately with cabal).
Fly + Vigilance + Lifelink (+Shroud if Solid Grove and/or +"reanimate at my upkeep" if Starfield which can give it +1/+1 if completed) make it a strong asset.

If I understand your suggestion, it would be to replace Chromanticore by Sigarda & Eldrazi conscription ? I would fear to explode my high cost quota. And would have to find the 2nd a place.
-At this purpose, I see a lot of 61 cards lists. Most of people would shout to heresy. Do you have some explanation to this fact?-

I thought about Eldrazi conscription, but never tried it. I assume I feared about drawing it more than Chromanticore since their's only one way to fetch it: Rector; where Chromanticore is also zenithable. And it needs a more complete setup to be playable (Rector + another creature still alive at the resolve of the trigger). But I agree that it's a dangerous treath and a sudden clock. And it can be hand castable sometimes.
So, I will give it a chance in place of Chromanticore and see what it done. I'll tell you.

-@ Ricardio: I tried Eidolon of blossom, but was not satisfied that much about it. But ok, I'll give it a new try later to see if it fits better with the list evolves.

I'm surprised to see Doomwake Giant without the accompanying Pharika, God of Affliction tech.

I looked several times at Pharika, but was not so enthousiastic about it. Also, enchantement tokens have a tendency to die instantly next to Starfield...

[TTX]

-At this purpose, I see a lot of 61 cards lists. Most of people would shout to heresy. Do you have some explanation to this fact?-

My reasoning is that the mana base can handle it and if you're playing a creature toolbox such as Nic Fit, you may as well jam 1 more GSZ target.
I haven't noticed any difference in consistency, I really don't see any problem playing 61 in this circumstance.
Now if we're talking about Storm or Charbelcher, running anything other than 60 is stupid.