I'm gonna assume it's their multi purpose for chalice or board wipes against delver/pyro/d&t. That's the only thing I can think of
Sadly went 2/4 day 2. Could have played better specifically in 2 of the matches but oh well, was not as focused as I should have been
In Seattle I bricked Day 2. I know the feeling.Originally Posted by Moomba
Momme Grupp's has put up two recent high place finishes with this list. While he seems to have turned for some match up's the fiery remain. Honestly I not quite sure where it I want that card. It feels to slow in many situations but given the opportunity it would be a huge board wipe.
Dnt, feels to slow and high cmc, clears the whole team and artifacts potentially.
shardless, could nuke DRS and lily.
grixis, nuke team for big card advantage
eldrazi, clear little team and clear chalice
miracles, could nuke a jace or mentor - potentially through a counterbalance
Thoughts? If anyone knows Momme's contact I would be appreciative.
Hi,
I made 11. place at gp prague with a 12-2-1 record with this list:
Unfortunately I dont have the time to write a full report but I can give a short summary on my tournement and the sideboard.
Round 1: vs. Eldrazi (2:0)
Round 2: vs. Opp. didn't show up (2:0)
Round 3: vs. Affinity (2:0)
Round 4: vs. Eldrazi (2:0)
Round 5: vs. Miracles (1:2)
Round 6: vs. DnT (2:1)
Round 7: vs. BUG Delver (2:0)
Round 8: vs. Maverick (2:1)
Round 9: vs. BUG Delver (2:1)
8-1 after day 1
Round 10: vs. Shardless Sultai (1:2)
Round 11: vs. BUG Delver (2:1)
Round 12: vs. Eldrazi (2:1)
Round 13: vs. Eldrazi (2:1)
Round 14: vs. Sneak Show/Omni hybrid (2:0)
Round 15: vs. Imperial Taxes (1: 1 :1)
12-2-1 after day 2
Some words on the maindeck:
I think I didnt lost a single match where I resolved top during the first 3 turns. I have tested with 4 tops main several weeks but flooded on tops quite often so I went back to 3 copies. Maybe I try 4 copies again but I really don't know what to cut...
Wouldn't change anything else.
On the sideboard:
Sudden Shock was the best sb card by far. It killed Mentor without making a single token for him, Deathrite Shamans multiple times with a missing activation because there can't be a response to sudden shock, Thalia multiple times (with karakas on the field), Revokers multiple times with Mom around, Quasali Pridemage with lots of pretty good targets on my side of the battlefield and Scavenging Ooze with a full graveyard. The people always do there things instant speed when they can (which isn't a mistake) but with sudden shock they lose lots of value from there cards. I only had a single combo mu so this is of course a fact why sudden shock was that good for me.
I have tested Fiery Confluence online a lot after mono red stompy boarded it against me one time. The card is insane. I have noticed that people tend to spend lifepoints quite aggressive against painter. With sudden shock and fiery confluence you have lots of burn in your deck after boarding against several decks to punish greedy players. This strategy won me at leats two games, by burning 6-12 points with fiery confluence/sudden shock. I lost several matches against grixis delver (testing before gp) due to random needles and null rods and of course against young pyromancer. In this mu the confluence is perfect because it cleares the board and get rid of those random artifacts (I don't want to bring in explicit artifact hate for 1-2 cards). With fiery confluence I had the feeling that the postboard matches are in our favour. Unfortunately I didn't played a single match against grixis at the GP. I've boarded the confluence against Dnt (altough it is a bit clunky here) and always could cast it even under thalia (don't underestimate how much mana our deck can produce in short time). Always traded 3-1 or better with it.
Matchups:
I will not talk about eldrazi or bug delver because these are just pretty good mu's.
Won against maverick in 3rd extr turn. These were pretty nice games with fiery confluence winning me game 3 because he flooded his board with creatures to get me dead as fast as he can.
Against miracles I had 4 turns to in game 3 to topdeck fiery confluence to win (Opp on 6 life) but entreat kills me after all. Game 2 was won by koth through countertop lock.
The Sneak Show game was interesting, with him keeping a greedy hand with 2 petal as only blue sources. After brainstorm and ponder he still has no blue mana and casts blood moon with city and mountain (mistake in my opinion). I resolve revoker on sneak attack and mill is library with the combo in play, to get a look at his build and try to put together is hand (all forces in the deck). Without blue mana on his side I'm not afraid and cast bridge -> my game. Game 2 he draws lots of lands and I have priest, canonist and bridge in play with blast in hand...
Game 2 and 3 against shardless I got thoughtseized multiple times and drew a lot of lands.
On the last match:
This was of course the win and in match. I was 10th before round 15 and he was 9th -> We had to play.
He plays Dnt with a red splah for recruiters and magus of the moon. I played the same deck at GP Lille last year, so I am familiar with the deck.
I take game 1 with a turn 4 protected combo on the draw. By this time he has jitte online with 2 counters.
Game 2 I have to mulligan and keep 6 "okay" cards. I stabilize on 7 life and 2 bridges but he recruiters for pia and kiran nalaar with enough artifacts on the field.
Game 3 starts much like game 2. He has lots of preasure but confluence wipes is board with me having 7 life. After that I get jaya and painter going which is unchecked for 4/5 turns and put me far ahead. By now I have 2 bridges in play as well and a revoker on pia and kiran nallar. We are very low on time at this point. With Welder I change is vials in grave and play and "kill" his revokers on grindstone. In 3rd extra turn I topdeck SDT but no grindstone in the top 3...
After 5 extra turns I still have no grindstone but is board is just nonsense and I could draw an extra card with welder /top every 2nd turn. I would expect to win 90%-95% of the games with this board state but he didn't want to concede so it's a draw and I'm out for top 8.
Anyway, 11th place is still great and I had a lot of fun playing the deck (as usual). I have tried a lot of legacy decks and this one is by far the one with the most fun factor by a lot. In addition it is really well positioned right now in my opinion.
Congratulations on your good finish. Sucks about that win and in, and very jealous of your match ups through out your rounds
Congrats to your finish as well! It is a shame you nearly made top 8. I just have a few questions for you.
1) Do you think the white splash is worth it for the singleton E. Tutor? Does the power level of E. Canonist and C. Priest warrant the white splash?
2) Why Surgical Extraction over Faerie Macabre or RIP, both of which can be tutored for.
3) Why no Manic Vandal or Viashino Heretic in the 75? Given the power level of artifacts people play, such as Chalice, Jitte, or Revoker, having a Silver Bullets seems like a good idea.
Thanks!
Great job and thanks for giving us your two cents. Many painter players have their own way of sideboarding so when you have the time if you elaborate on a few of your strategies that would be awesome.
Again, congrats and to bad on the top 8.
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@Glep Sucks about rd 15 but congrats. How did you feel about spellskite. I didn't like it when I tried. I'm also curious, about how your omni/sneak match went. I had a hard time against them this weekend. any tips.
@L10
1) I'm not the biggest fan of enlightened tutor because it is slow and card disadvantage. But I can see the advantage that this slot acts as a 4th top/Bridge/ 5th Moon to tutor for in certain mu's. That's why there is only one where most people play two. Canonist and priest are definitely perfect at what you need, to win the bad combo mu's. White is in my opinion the best sb color, so playing a mono deck doesn't make sense for me.
2) Priest can be tutored as well, if you want grave hate to be tutored in my list. Surgical has other advantages of seeing the opponents deck and hand. I usually board it in against miracles (and of course in some combo mu's and lands/aggro loam) because they are very light on win cons or taking all there plows/balances is pretty good as well... Maybe it's just a personal preference. I don't like RIP in painter cause it shuts down your own welder's and doesn't function as a clock like priest does for example. Priest also shuts down GSZ and Natural Order.
3) I played viashino heretic a long time but found it to easy to be answered if one wants to destroy multiple artifacts. fiery confluence solves this problem perfect and killed about 8 chalices in my 4 eldrazi games at the GP.
@mcbain
Due to my time "problems" at the moment I would like to answer this question in maybe two weeks? =)
@Mapson
I play spellskite over one year now and never found him bad. Protects your Hatebears in combo mu's, protects the lock pieces and the combo, allstar against burn and infect and blocks good as well.
I can definitely see the value of confluence. It's why I have a hard time moving away from 3 color painter (w/ black) just because Kolaghan's Command is so good. as we can tell from Columbus GP, the 3 major players seem to be delver (typically grixis), Miracles, and eldrazi. I really think we need a good answer to chalice and confluence gets there. I can totally see replacing pyrokinesis as I always want that card to be able to go to the face or to planewalkers.
Well done on the finish.
Went 3-0 against eldrazi in my league run yesterday running a very similar list to Glep.
The match-up is very play draw dependent. As with any chalice deck I prioritize landing a welder or stone turn one so I can still win through chalice easily enough. This goes for merfolk as well.
While I didn't get to cast the fiery confluence there were countless turns where if I had drawn it the game would have been over very fast. Total blow out territory.
One thing that I wanted to highlight was the lack of miracles in Gleps run - one, which was a 0-2 loss. Speaking from my day two GP run last fall the vast majority of my loses was to close miracles games.
Currently, at least in the north American meta, I feel it is still worth gearing your deck to miracles - like Jack has been doing with his recent legacy challenge win.
Moving forward a blend of these two decks might be the happy medium were looking for.
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In 5 rounds of the GP and 5 of the GP rebound I faced miracles 6 times and 2 death and taxes twice. Now my experience isn't the norm but my bad luck train was rolling the whole weekend.
Played at the GP Prague's main event with list similar to Cook's:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
5 Fetch
1 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Welder
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Blood Moon
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 enlightened tutor
Side
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Manic Vandal
1 ethersworn canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 ensnaring bridge
1 trinisphere
1 engineered explosives
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Sphere of Law
Went 5-4 on first day beating Miracles, 2 Eldrazis, Stoneblade and BUG Delver. I lost to Infect, Burn, AggroLoam and Shardless BUG.
On sunday i played Star Legacy side event with the same list going 4-0-1 (and split in the final round for lots of prize stars). The first opponent didnt' show up. Then i beat 2 reanimators, miracles and played a draw against goblins.
LED was an underperformer so i consider switching it for another main deck Bridge. Koth shined in the maindeck in place of Jaya, no love for her. Ajani Vengeant was nuts against miracles. Blood Moon MVP.
Had really nice time playing in Prague. Could say I had a 'blast ;)
I was 51 ad the same sideevent as Stils1 (who drew against a friend of mine^^) with the following list:
Moonraker 12
//lands (19):
4x ancient tomb
3x city of traitors
2x mountain
3x plateau
1x great furnace
4x arid mesa
2x bloodstained mire
//creatures (17):
4x painter's servant
4x imperial recruiter
2x goblin welder
1x magus of the moon
1x Jaya Ballard, task mage
1x spellskite
1x duergar hedge-mage
3x simian spirit guide
//other spells (24):
4x pyroblast
2x red elemental blast
2x enlighteened tutor
4x grindstone
4x blood moon
2x ensnaring bridge
3x lotus petal
3x sensei's divining top
//sideboard (15):
4x ethersworn canonist
1x containment priest
1x kor firewalker
1x rest in peace
1x circle of protection: red
2x Chandra, pyromaster
1x engineered explosives
1x ensnaring bridge
3x sudden demise
Duergar hedge mage for the chalice-Problem, in the Sideboard i would cut out the firewalker for the next tournament, the rest was quite awesome - but i see the upsides of sudden shock over sudden demise and will definetly test it! Chandra was complete bonkers with the bridge-plan and perhaps i even want to test a singleton cunning sparkmage...
Greetz,
Marius Hausmann
1) I never liked Enlightened Tutor for the same reason. Even when I splashed white, I didn't play Enlightened Tutor. Maybe I will give one a shot.
2) Without Faerie or RIP or Tormods Crypt, what is your game plan against Emrakul? Do you side out your Grindstone and play pure control? Because the one-off Surgical would not be enough.
3) I will give Fiery Confluence a lot shot.
Thanks for your insight!
Just reading everyone's comments I'm a little surprised by a couple things. I will just preface this by saying that 95% of my experience with the deck in the last 3 months has been online, where I have played against a crap-ton of Miracles and delver variants in general but lately have been seeing more Reanimator, Eldrazi and other fast combo.
A: I am surprised by the lack of love for Nahiri. She has been so ridiculous for me against Miracles that if I get her on the board, I haven't lost a game yet. Right now I am testing one copy of Mindslaver to cheat in and it just wins flat out. I have played every other Planeswalker there is (Chandra for a long time, Koth, Ajani, Daretti) and in my opinion, against Miracles it's not even close.
B: Now that I've been testing Fiery Confluence for a few days, it is definitely the real deal. It's a tad spendy and I haven't had a chance to test it against elves yet, where I think it may be a turn too slow, but it has just wrecked opponent's boards and done vital work against hateful artifacts (primarily needles and null rods). People have played around with the card in the past but I have to thank GLEP for bringing it back to my/our attention.
C: For people who question Spellskite, I will say I am always happy to see that card. Especially with Infect taking the GP, Spellskite single-handedly wrecks that deck and will probably be a more important tool going forth.
D: I totally get that e.tutor is card disadvantage. But the card selection it provides is invaluable. Especially against combo decks that are potentially faster than us (eg storm, dredge, belcher), it is vital to either have the hate in your hand or have a turn one e.tutor to hit turn 2 hate. I actually beat belcher yesterday by having t1 tutor into t2 e.e to wipe his goblin hoard in two games. It also makes getting a turn two blood moon way more consistent. I don't think there are many opponents where we favor the long game, so the card disadvantage typically isn't as significant of an issue for us.
E: I have to agree with the increase in ensnaring bridges. I was following Jack's lead and going down to one in the main for a while but then started getting my ass handed to me by Eldrazi. Also with the surge in Reanimator lately it's an important card to hit early, especially game one when we typically don't have any grave hate in our deck.
Again, just my opinions. The biggest thing for me though recently is that I've gone from probably 30% against Miracles to 60-65%. If they hit the early top/CB then four/+ drops are usually our only chance (unless you are playing vexing shusher). And the truth is, Miracles (at least in my opinion) is the most pervasive deck in the format right now. If you don't have a decent MU against them then you aren't realistically getting very far in any larger tournament.
Was the win rate change purely because of nahiri? Or have you changed your playstyle or approach to this matchup? Maybe a combination of both? My approach recently has been mulligan a little aggressively to find atleast 1 blast. Then either go the aggro route or the grindy combo route depending on what the other contents of my hand are.
Fiery Confluence looks sweet, i'm going to try it at some time in the future.
100% agree with everything you said drude1. Still trying to decide if I want any of my Nahiri in the md though, (was 1 md 1 sb but have decided to go 2 sb)
With 4 miracles being top 8 in Columbus and 8 in top 16 it clearly shows that you've got to have a solid ass plan for them. Testing confluence right now and planning on picking up painter on mtgo soon, so we'll see how that all goes.
Would you mind posting your list with fiery confluence and nahiri? I was really excited about nahiri when it was first spoiled and bought 3 foil copies upon release. I played with 1 md 1 sb for a little but ajani (2 sb) has been pretty good for me with miracles and burn. (I always run into the burn player at tournaments hence the sphere of law in the sb). I'm playing jack's list with a different sb ( 2 ajani, 2 sulfur elemental, 2 containment priest, 1 hedge Mage, 1 rest in peace, 1 canonist, 1 thorn, 2 sudden shock, 1 ensnaring bridge, 1 sphere of law, 1 REB). Is fiery confluence really that good against eldrazi? I feel like it's too slow especially if they have a thorn out. I'd rather recruit for hedgemage and destroy chalice and have two chump blockers.
Do tell?
Hey guys,
I went 8-3 drop with Shortcake this weekend. I didn't have any byes so all I could do was hope lady luck was on my side and not face burn. Besides that, I felt pretty good about every match up. Here is the list I played:
4 Imperial Recruiters
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
4 Pyroblast
3 Goblin Welder
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mountain
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
Sideboard
2 Koth
1 Crypt
1 RIP
4 Lightning Bolt
1 3Sphere
1 Canonist
1 Manic Vandal
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Magus of Moon
1 (Can't remember of top of my head)
Round 1: Lady luck decided to fuck with me and I get paired against Burn. The night before I decided to cut the Sphere of Law just cause this match up is terrible and I'd rather use the spot for the Pyrokinesis. I can't combo before he burns me out and quickly lose 0-2. Well, that's a shitty way to start the day. (0-1)
Round 2: I get a little luckier and get paired against Merfolk. I lose game one cause I never see a blast or G-stone. Games two and three I am able to land a bridge and my opponent can't beat it. (1-1)
Round 3: Finally, the big bad Eldrazi. This is the match up I was hoping for all weekend. He's on the play and lands a turn one chalice. I draw and land a turn moon. Chain recruiters and beat him down. Game two he gets me down to three but eventually I am able to land a bridge and get Koth to ultimate and kill him. (2-1)
Round 4: My opponent wins the die roll and chooses to draw. I mull immediately searching for a fast combo hand. My six reveals a turn two win and that's all she wrote. Game two I play revoker turn one naming phantasmagoria, turn two I get a crypt and turn three a RIP to end the game. (3-1)
Round 5: Shardless. I didn't take very many notes on this match but I recall it being super grindy. I win both games with the combo. (4-1)
Round 6: My opponent is on Deathblade. Its his first Legacy event and he is super stoked to be X-1. I'm able to combo him early game one with Pyro back up. Game two he is on the play and starts by thoughseizeing my turn one blood moon. I go to my draw and what do you know, its a blood moon. Slam it turn one and beat him down with dorks. After the match he told me that he played no basics. Sorry. (5-1)
Round 7: I'm up against Grixis Delver. My opponent has never played against Painter. I lose game one. Game two I land a early G-stone. I land a painter with three mana open and a monkey/blast in hand. My opponent takes the bait and attempts to bolt painter eot and I combo in response. Game three is kind of a blur but I recall winning with some welder shenanigans. (6-1)
Round 8: I get turn'd two by Infect. Game two I'm able to land a 3sphere and a bridge but cant empty my hand fast enough and die. (6-2)
Round 9: Eldrazi. I win my second die roll of the day. I don't know what my opponent is on but I have a turn two win. I start with painter, petal and pass. He plays mimic and passes. I eot tutor for stone and turn 2 him with my second sol land. Game two I land a moon but he still gets me down to 3. Finally I'm able to land a bridge and eventually Koth ultimate gets me there. (7-2)
The deck felt very good after day one. Managed to dodge miracles, storm and d&t. There was a bunch in the top tables so I knew it was just a matter of time.
Round 10: I win the die roll and start with a Bloodstained mire. My opponent draws and plays land, mox diamond, mana bond and gets stage+depth but doesn't have enough mana to activate. I eot tutor for moon and he scoops after I play a sol land. Game two I mull to six and keep a shitty hand with RIP. It ends up being gripped and I get locked out with ports and wastelands and can't recover. Game three my opener has a crypt and a bridge in it but doesn't do anything and feels slow. I mull to six and get rewarded with a turn one moon. Yay! (8-2)
Round 11: It finally happens, my opponent is on Miracles. I manage to win game one with the combo. My opponent has counter/top assembled but he mostly tapped out for something so I find my window to play the painter I'd been holding and he doesn't find a 2CMC on top and I win. Game two I lose to Entreat after he tears, snap, tears my two bridges. Game three goes to time, he finds a Mentor on turn two but is empty handed and we are both in top deck mode. I have a painter in play on blue. I have two draws to find a g-stone and win but come up with blanks and lose the game on turn 5. (8-3)
I'm bummed but not upset cause it was a really good match and my opponent played at a great pace. I'm still in contention for top 64 but its almost noon and I really wanted to play in the Vintage Challenge.
Round 12: I get paired up against Grixis Delver and win game one with an early blood moon. During sideboarding my opponent asks if I care about the pro points at all (I don't) and that he is only one pro point away from the pro tour or some shit like that. I lose game two and decide to give him the game and drop so I can make the Vintage Challenge.
All in all, the deck felt great and the whole weekend was fun. I got to meet a couple other Painters and even got to witness Shortcake vs. Grixis Painter round 4. I'm the guy who has the all white bordered Painter deck for those of you that saw me play. Anyways, sorry for the long ass post.
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