Hindering touch would for sure catch people by surprise! Unfortunatly no jap foils of it on MCMOriginally Posted by btm10
But I don't know if a 2nd Jace or a Flsuterstrom (no risk no fun) would be better in that spot
My biggest gripe is that it's 4 rather than 3 CMC, which just makes it too narrow to be optimal. I really like that it hits everything rather than just instants and sorceries like Flusterstor, though.Hindering touch would for sure catch people by surprise! Unfortunatly no jap foils of it on MCM
I'm going to a PPTQ in a couple weeks and I'm taking the following list. I'm looking for any input. Meta generally seems slightly skewed to combo but also known to have some Eldrazi and Miracles present, along with more fringe lists like Enchantress and RW Painter, Imperial Bomberman, Tin Fins, and so there are some slightly abnormal choices.
Creatures: 15
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
1 Tombstalker
Spells: 23
4 Force of Willl
3 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
Land: 22
2 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard: 15
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Disfigure
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Containment Priest
3 Meddling Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Scrubland
If the combo deck are skewed towards GY decks, I don't think you can afford to run Meddling Mage. Mage is really only good vs Storm and Lands, with a little nod to Sneak and Show (but even then, they can just "play the other").
I like cutting mages in favor of more Spellbombs/discard if you think you can afford it.
Went 4-1 at last night's local Legacy event. Beat Shardless mirror, Shardless mirror (with Aluren combo baked in), RUG Delver, Elves, and lost to Dredge. The match versus Dredge was pretty close, got game 1, lost game 2, and lost game 3 after mulligan to 5 after he Nature's Claim'ed my Grafdigger's Cage. Never saw a Deathrite the entire Dredge match.
Pretty happy with my sideboard choices. Won't be making any changes for the GP. Good luck to anyone in Columbus or Prague this weekend!
There are no Legacy PPTQ's if I recall, so you might want to check what you're playing in?
That's what my teammates said it was. It's in Denver on the 26th, whatever it is.
It's an SCG IQ, which is pretty much the biggest Legacy events we get around here. I'll be there as well, also playing shardless.
Care to say anything more about the one with the Aluren combo in it?
Yeah, it's kind of a brew. It's pretty much Shardless without Ancestral Vision, in favor of what I think is three copies of Aluren, and one each of Parasitic Strix and Cavern Harpy for the combo. Rest of the deck is the standard Goyf, Shardless, Deathrite creature package with discard, Abrupt Decay, and Force of Will for disruption. Interesting deck. Kind of suboptimal I think, a little unfocused, as sometimes you just draw the combo pieces but no Aluren and it's really awkward. But it's cool to see, and the deck pilot is just kind of having fun with it. I've lost to the same player and that deck before, it can just win out of nowhere.
Well, good luck, Hobart. I'd prefer to be on DnT, but alas, I haven't been able to pick up the last few things needed due to family matters being more important than cardboard (at least that's what they tell me), so here goes nothing.
Wanted to do a little write-up for my play this weekend!
Round 1 versus Stephen on MUD
Game 1 my opponent opened Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith, into Trinisphere, and I was in trouble. I was locked out of plays for a few turns, and although I got a Goyf online, he found more mana, and made a Forgemaster. Although I was able to land a Jace and bounce his Forgemaster, he made a Metalworker, with Lightning Greaves in hand, played the Forgemaster again and then the Greaves, fetching up a Blightsteel Colossus, and killed my Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I blocked for a turn, and was killed the next, failing to find anything like Liliana of the Veil to deal with the huge monster.
Game 2 I had a better start, using Force of Will on an early lock piece, and blowing up a Metalworker with an Abrupt Decay. Sylvan Library allowed me to draw a few extra cards and put more pressure on, and he finally lost due to not finding any threats and my two 5/6 Tarmogoyfs.
Game 3 was similar. I had an early Force of Will to slow down his lock pieces. I landed a turn 2 Sylvan Library. We both Wasteland each other twice over subsequent turns, but I land a Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay his Metalworker, shutting him off mana. My followup Liliana of the Veil to kill his newly cast Forgemaster, and then a Life from the Loam getting back three Wasteland drew the concession.
Matches 1-0, Games 2-1
Round 2 versus Brian on Death and Taxes
Game 1 I win the die roll and start turn 2 with Hymn to Tourach, getting a couple threats out of his hand, and answer his Thalia with Tarmogoyf. I attack with my 6/7 Goyf, and he has to hold back his creatures to block over two turns, and doesn't find anything to deal with the Tarmogoyf.
Game 2 he plays a turn 2 Phyrexian Revoker naming Deathrite Shaman, seeing my one on board, and then next turn I play two more, and never find anything to deal with the Revoker, severely constraining my mana. He finds Batterskull with Stoneforge Mystic, and although I have Engineered Plague to deal with his Thalia and Mother of Runes, and Maelstrom Pulse to kill the Batterskull, I can't deal with Mirran Crusader, and it eventually beats me down.
Game 3 an early Engineered Plague deals with his Mother of Runes, and even though he has another Mirran Crusader, I get way ahead, hitting with two Tarmogoyfs and Creeping Tar Pit, getting him down to 6 from 17, after he attacks me down to 6. His board is only Mirran Crusader after a piece of removal and active Liliana of the Veil, and I'm able to attack for the win.
Matches 2-0, Games 4-2
Round 3 versus Brian on Belcher
Game 1 I keep a hand that's something like Force of Will, Brainstorm, Deathrite, Abrupt Decay, and three lands. My opponent casts Chrome Mox, Rite of Flame, exile Simian Spirit Guide, Seething Song, Goblin Charbelcher, and I Force the Charbelcher. He scoops and we go to game 2.
Game 2 we both mulligan, him to 5, me down to 6. I keep a hand with two Brainstorm, Deathrite, Ancestral Vision, and two lands. My scry shows me Force of Will, and I hope he doesn't have the turn 1. He does not, but tries to go for it turn 2, and I have Force of Will again. He just draws a few more Chrome Moxes, while my Deathrite Shamans eat his life total, and after my Ancestral Vision comes off suspend, I Abrupt Decay his Carpet of Flowers, and make him discard both cards in his hand with Duress and Thoughtseize drawn off Ancestral Vision. I win shortly after.
Matches 3-0, Games 6-2
Round 4 versus John on Miracles
Game 1, my opponent resolves turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top and turn 2 Counterbalance. I attempt to slow-roll him, not wanting to play anything into the lock and waste it, so I wait until I find a Abrupt Decay, which comes a few turns later. My life total approaches 30 after two Tarmogoyfs get Swords to Plowshared. A Shardless Agent gets a few pokes in, and finally a third Tarmogoyf joins the fray, protected by Vendilion Clique in response to his Miracle'd Terminus, and I finish him off the next turn.
Game 2 I open on Ancestral Vision suspended. My Deathrite Shaman gets him a few times, and then he resolves a Blood Moon, locking me out of the game. The Ancestral Vision got a Pyroblast, so I scooped up my cards and moved on to game 3.
Game 3 my opponent answers everything I play. Four creatures are hit with Swords to Plowshares, Counterspell stops Garruk Relentless. I use Abrupt Decay on Monastery Mentor, and Maelstrom Pulse on the resulting tokens. Abrupt Decay for his Rest in Peace. I almost get him with Notion Thief late in the game, but he has the perfect answers, with Swords on the Notion Thief after it resolves, and Flusterstorm for my Force of Will on the Swords. His Ponder allows him to set up an Entreat the Angels for 6 Angels, beating my 23 life total. My two Deathrite Shamans on the board were a bit too slow to finish out the game.
Matches 3-1, Games 7-4
Round 5 versus Thomas on UR Delver
In game 1, my opponent takes himself to 15 on his first turn with Gitaxian Probe into Gitaxian Probe, into Force of Will on my Deathrite Shaman. He plays control for a little while, until I'm able to land a Tarmogoyf, and hit him from 14 to 9 to 4, and then I take 16 from two Price of Progress and get a Lightning Bolt to finish it out.
Game 2 I have an aggressive start with Deathrite Shaman into Shardless Agent into Ancestral Visions, and I'm able to out-resource him. He does resolve another Price of Progress, but I'm able to race and finish him off.
Game 3 I start with a Duress and I see he kept a one-land hand with two Spell Pierce, Price of Progress, Ponder, Brainstorm, and Monastery Swiftspear. Since he played the turn 1 Delver of Secrets, I wanted to keep him from flipping it or finding another land, so I took the Brainstorm off my Duress. His Delver flips anyway, and he beats me for a couple turns, but has trouble finding land. I find an Abrupt Decay for his Delver, but he makes more threats. I start to develop a huge board, fetching my basic lands to prevent Price of Progress pain, my Ancestral Vision comes off suspend, find Tarmogoyf off Shardless Agent, a second Shardless Agent into Ancestral Vision, then Baleful Strix, and finally Liliana of the Veil. His board is unflipped Delver, Monastery Swiftspear, and Stormchaser Mage, but he can't attack into my board of creatures, especially Baleful Strix. I keep pressure on with Tarmogoyf and Shardless Agent, and he's forced to block to keep from dying, and the next turn I'm able to active my two Deathrite Shaman to finish him off. Basically just got to value him out of the game.
Matches 4-1, Games 9-5
Round 6 versus Justin on Shardless
Game 1, I lose the die roll, and have to protect my hand from his turn 2 Hymn to Tourach with Force of Will. I'm way behind after he uses Abrupt Decay on my Deathrite Shaman and then plays Tarmogoyf, and resolves Ancestral Vision, making more threats, and I'm not able to catch up.
Game 2 I have kind of a slow start, losing my Deathrite Shaman again to Abrupt Decay, and he finds the cards he needs off Sylvan Library, following it up with Jace, the Mind Sculptor. The turn his T1 Ancestral Vision comes off suspend, I cast Notion Thief, trying to steal his card draw, but he has the exact answer in Disfigure to kill it before his Ancestral Vision resolves. He then casts Shardless Agent into Ancestral Vision, plus his Jace Brainstorm allowed him to draw 8 cards in one turn. I scooped up my cards and conceded after that.
Matches 4-2, Games 9-7
Round 7 versus John on Show and Tell
Game 1 I'm on the play, and get a quick start of Deathrite Shaman into Baleful Strix, but his turn 2 Griselbrand is a more powerful play, getting it onto the battlefield due to an unstopped Show and Tell. He draws 7 cards off it, and doesn't find what he needs, while my Baleful Strix holds it off. The next turn he is able to get Sneak Attack and Emrakul to attack me, and I have to sac most of my board, and he runs away with the game.
Game 2 I'm again on the play, and he doesn't have the combo in hand apparently and has a slow start, so he's forced to play defense, using Force of Will to stop a Tarmogoyf and Spell Pierce on Liliana of the Veil. With only four cards in hand, my Hymn to Tourach causes him to discard two big creatures, and my Deathrite Shaman backed up by another Tarmogoyf puts the game away.
Game 3 I'm on the draw, and his second-turn play off Ancient Tomb and Volcanic Island is Blood Moon. Luckily, I have basic Swamp and Tropical Island in play, so I float the green mana and Abrupt Decay the Blood Moon to keep myself in the game. My opponent is very upset that I blew up the card that he intended to keep me from playing actual Magic, so I follow that up with Liliana of the Veil and start stripping cards out of his hand. Vendilion Clique to follow that up shows little in his hand of interest, but I have him put Omniscience on the bottom, keeping Emrakul and Spell Pierce. Vendilion Clique attacks him over a couple turns, while Liliana and other discard spells keep him off cards. He scoops after I ultimate my Liliana of the Veil, having him sacrifice a second blood moon, plus two other lands, leaving him with only three lands in play and no cards in hand.
Matches 5-2, Games 11-8
Round 8 versus James on Turbo Depths
Game 1, my opponent opens on Urborg into Thoughtseize, and I wonder if I'm playing against Pox. His follow-up play is Thespian's Stage plus Expedition Map, and I try to keep him off another land, which I assume will be Dark Depths, by destroying the Map. But he has other plans, and exiles Elvish Spirit Guide, taps his Urborg, and goes to get Dark Depths. I die two turns later to an unanswered 20/20 creature.
Game 2 my turn 1 duress finds him with two Dark Depths, two Verdant Catacombs, Swamp, Elvish Spirit Guide, and Crop Rotation. I take the Crop Rotation, and next turn make a Tarmogoyf and start beating him down. A couple turns later, he finds the Thespian's Stage, but I have a Baleful Strix to hold off the token. Then I find Jace, the Mind Sculptor to bounce the token. He plays a Vampire Hexmage to kill my Jace, but I kill him with Tarmogoyf and Deathrite Shaman activations.
Game 3 he goes Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Vampire Hexmage, Dark Depths, make a 20/20. I question my life choices and concede the game.
Matches 5-3, Games 12-10
Round 9 versus Nathanial on Storm
Game 1, my opponent opens on Gitaxian Probe and Volcanic Island, so I figure I'm playing against some Delver deck. I was wrong, when my second turn Hymn to Tourach gets his Infernal Tutor and Cabal Ritual. A follow up Hymn off Shardless Agent strips more cards out of his hand, and I beat down and he doesn't have time to rebuild.
Game 2, my opponent opens on Young Pyromancer, Gitaxian Probe, Lotus Petal, Ponder, and I'm suddenly in real trouble. I have a Deathrite to slow things down, and then a Shardless Agent into Tarmogoyf turns things around. My followup Shardless into Ancestral Vision found Duress plus Thoughtseize, and he had no more cards in hand, forced to block my Tarmogoyf, and he's done.
Matches 6-3, Games 14-10
I'm at 6-3 and I made day 2! Being a little far behind in match points makes it difficult to finish in the money, but I'm just happy to play more Legacy. I grabbed dinner with friends, and headed home to crash.
Back at the site on Sunday morning for more gaming.
Round 10 versus Duncan on Eldrazi
Duncan wins the die roll, and on turn 1 plays Thorn of Amethyst. I have no choice but to let it resolve, my hand of Tarmogoyf, Brainstorm, Liliana, Jace, Abrupt Decay, and two lands suddenly looking very bad. Turn two he casts Thought-Knot Seer, taking my Tarmogoyf, and a third-turn Thought-Knot Seer, taking another card. I chumped with Deathrite Shaman, but lost on the next turn.
Game 2 my opponent started with Thorn, I forced his second-turn Thought-Knot Seer, but he followed that up with another, an Endless One, and then Reality Smasher on turn 4. I couldn't handle the onslaught.
Matches 6-4, Games 14-12
Round 11 versus Jeremy on Lands
Game 1 my opponent started with Thespian's Stage, Mox Diamond, and passed the turn. He Abrupt Decayed my turn 2 Tarmogoyf and Turn 3 Liliana of the Veil and made a turn 4 Marit Lage token, so I scooped.
Game 2 I had Sylvan Library early. I Force of Will'ed a Crop Rotation, and was able to play around his Choke by fetching non-Islands. He had Maze of Ith for my Goyf, but Shardless Agent got there, and finished it off with Deathrite activations.
Game 3 I started with an early Deathrite, prioritizing eating his lands with it. He had Tabernacle early, but I found Wasteland for that, and ate it with my Deathrite. I beat a second-turn Choke from him with Golgari Charm. I forgot to draw off an Ancestral Vision that I cast, but found another Deathrite and suspended over two more turns two more Ancestral Vision. A third Deathrite hit the board, followed by Garruk Relentless, and he was forced to turn Thespian Stages into Mazes to blank the wolf tokens. Deathrites kept his graveyard clean of lands and I got his Life from the Loams. Finally I was able to get him with Deathrite Shaman activations.
Matches 7-4, Games 16-13
Round 12 versus Adonnys on Shardless BUG
Game 1 he has a very aggressive start, using Abrupt Decay on my Deathrite Shaman, hitting me with Wasteland, and I'm out of the game quickly.
Game 2 is quite the grind fest. We both set up with Deathrite Shamans, but I'm able to use Sylvan Library to gain advantage. We both build over a couple turns, Shardless Agents and Tarmogoyfs on both sides, until I'm able to Shardless into Ancestral Vision, find removal for his Deathrite Shamans, and take over the game.
Game 3 he opens on Deathrite, gets turn 3 Liliana to kill my Tarmogoyf, I follow up with Garruk Relentless, making a wolf to hold off his Shardless Agent and two Deathrite Shamans. He finds another Liliana of the Veil, killing my wolf, attacking and killing my Garruk. My Ancestral Vision comes off suspend, and I play a Shardless Agent into Tarmogoyf, followed up by Baleful Strix, and then time is called. He plays a Jace on his first game of turns, and I steal his Jace Brainstorm with flashed-in Notion Thief. Then on my turn I attack and kill his Liliana. The board is about even when we run out of turns, life totals my 10 to his 9 with both a significant board presence, my Liliana, Strix, Goyf, Shardless, and Creeping Tar Pit (with bounced Notion Thief and other spells in hand) to his two Deathrites and Jace. I decide a draw won't help either of us, so I concede the game to him and wish him luck in the rest of the tournament, and drop from the main event.
Had some great games and met some great people. Always fun playing Legacy (unless you get turn 1 Marit Lage, that's not so great).
I have talked about my sideboard choices, especially agonizing over having sideboard hate for graveyard-based decks, and I never saw one all day, except for Lands where I did bring in one Nihil Spellbomb, but it never made a difference.
Notion Thief only worked in one match to steal a Jace activation. I feel like it doesn't do enough, and it's fragile, so I might go in a different direction there.
Sylvan Library was an all-star, winning several games outright.
Happy with the discard package, it was key against Sneak + Show and Storm, as I had planned.
Golgari Charm, Disfigure, Toxic Deluge, and especially Engineered Plague were big hits all day, especially against Death and Taxes.
Very happy with the deck, I think Shardless is still a great choice for the meta. I might tweak the sideboard a bit, but the main is pretty solid. Here was my list for the weekend:
Creatures (16)
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Shardless Agent
3x Baleful Strix
1x Vendilion Clique
Spells (20)
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Ancestral Vision
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Hymn to Tourach
Planeswalkers (3)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Liliana of the Veil
Lands (21)
1x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
3x Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 Disfigure
1 Notion Thief
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
With this manabase:
1 forest
1 swamp
4 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 bayou
4 polluted delta
4 verdant catacombs
1 misty rainforest
1 marsh flats
4 wasteland
Would you think it plausible to run the 3xstrix/hymn version of shardless? Most of the manabases I look at seem all wacky with 3 underground's multiple trops and bayous, 1- no basics fewer wastelands with tar pits. I'm not looking to run tar pit in my meta. But wouldn't mind testing out some of the higher placing shardless decks at gp columbus without shelling out $$$ for more duals.
I've been brewing around with white in the mix. Please forgive me if this has already been discussed in detail (I have looked and searched, but may well have failed). Anyhow, I'm very interested to hear opinions on how white makes the list function better or worse than 'pure' BUG. My initial worry is that not all fetches can grab the white source. However, the idea of cascading into Teeg, or Containment Priest, or Meddling Mage seems too good to resist. This is what I've got so far...
Land (22)
2x Bayou
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Scrubland
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Wasteland
Planeswalker (3)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Liliana of the Veil
Creature (15)
2x Baleful Strix
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Meddling Mage
4x Shardless Agent
4x Tarmogoyf
Instant (12)
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
Sorcery (8)
3x Ancestral Vision
4x Hymn to Tourach
1x Toxic Deluge
Sideboard (15)
2x Baleful Strix
1x Containment Priest
1x Disfigure
1x Dread of Night
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Golgari Charm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Meddling Mage
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Sylvan Library
1x Tormod's Crypt
That mana base doesnt look good. 4 Misty's that cannot get the scrubland. Only 8 Fetches in a now 4 color deck. No more Basic swamp to fetch (more important than the basic forest in my opinion). What exactly are you trying to improve with one Meddling Mage maindeck? I would switch it with a strix from the sideboard. Also I don't see the need for a C. Priest atm, it only does something against S&S, Reanimator and Elves right? Which decks are you trying to hit with the Teeg?
Now you've made the point about Strix, it seems obvious and I will swap them out. Teeg was with Miracles in mind. There is a bit of it floating around locally, and they're playing with Entreat as the wincon (as opposed to mentor). There is also an elves deck running about.
The manabase could include Flooded Strands instead of the Misty Rainforests, which would allow me to fetch all colo(u)rs from all fetches...?
Thanks for the feedback! Exactly what was needed.
Well Flooded Strands can neither get Bayou nor Forest, so thats not really a step forward.
This is the Manabase I used, when I had 3 Mages in the SB:
3 Seas
2 bayou
1 Trop
4 Verdant
4 Delta
2 Misty
1 Tar pit
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
If you want to save the SB slot and play the scrub main, you should replace the swamp with the scrubland. Misty still doesn't get you white but that has rarely been a prob for me because you have 9 ways to get white + DRS. If you want 2 Trops take a Misty out for it, although I never has been important for me.
If you play more mages rather then teeg to name Terminus/EtA it accomplishes almost the same doesn't it? Teeg cannot get Blasted and shuts down both but it prevents our Jace too.
I don't think elves cares to much about the priest, especially if they board into grinding mode. If you want to hit them GCharm, Deluge, Plague, NOSB are the real hosers.
Cant tell if i love or hate the mainboard vclique
anybody going to the channel fireball 3k this weekend?
I'm going to Eternal Extravaganza, probably both days (I have byes for Saturday, so definitely then. I'm less excited about Vintage, but I still may show up). I'm not locked on Shardless right now (might play Miracles, might play some Delver deck, might play Loam), but if anyone wants to meet up that'd be cool.
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