[Primer] R/G Lands

[Dice_Box]

Smokestacks is used in the Blue builds.

[jhport12]

I could see an argument about playing Smokestack over Tireless Tracker in the board, but I don't quite see an argument for playing both--even though they have some synergy with each other.

I haven't tried Tireless Tracker yet (should be getting some in the mail soon), but the appeal of a win condition that isn't graveyard dependent is attractive. Against any deck that is slow to kill you and can easily attack your primary game plan (through GY hate, or Revoker/Pithing Needle), the Tracker might be a good solution.

For Miracles, Chalice and Sphere effects seem most important (along with Grips to kill their Counterbalance), but we have so many less-than-great cards against them (4 P. Fire, 3 Maze, 1 Tabernacle, 1 Glacial Chasm, 4 Crop Rotation) that we usually have 9-13 slots available for sideboard cards.

[Chatto]

@ barcode: again you are spot-one regarding PT, and now TT.

@ Cfetchcaviar: playing Boseiju main is actually not a bad idea, with the recent results of Miracles in both Prague and Columbus. I play the straight RG-version, with two Manabond. Cutting one for Boseiju should do the trick.

I have playtested some games against Mentor Miracles. We didn't use the SB, but it was hard. They are so fast, it's insane. I feel like being one step behind all the time. Do you guys feel the same? Any tips or tricks I'm missing? Right now my strategy is stalling with Spheres and burn Mentor to dead, and then deal with the tokens (all the burning should be done in opponents Eot and my turn).

[LegoEgo]

Hey, I rarely Post here since I'm to late mostly to lazy, but whenever that one GP in Europe finishes I write a little bit about it.
My previous scores are 7-4- drop, 6-3, 11-3-1 (top 100) and now this time 8-4 drop.
I wasnt quite satisfied with my performance this year but I changed some things about my list and I think the diffrence between the list from last year to this year might be interesting to some.
I don't have time right now for the list posting but that will come soon. So consider this a teaser ;)

[barcode]

I have playtested some games against Mentor Miracles. We didn't use the SB, but it was hard. They are so fast, it's insane. I feel like being one step behind all the time. Do you guys feel the same? Any tips or tricks I'm missing? Right now my strategy is stalling with Spheres and burn Mentor to dead, and then deal with the tokens (all the burning should be done in opponents Eot and my turn).

Like all miracles builds they are weak to early Rishadan Ports (while we develop our board/mana). Mentor is weak to Tabernacle so that should be the focus. Try for Grove + Punishing Fire + Tabernacle to stem the bleeding, you'll want to go after Mentor end of their turn and then again on your turn if it gets buffed up. If you have access to Worm Harvest in game 1 it will easily overpower the monks.

The matchup sucks because we need to leave a huge number of Punishing Fires in the deck plus the Tabernacle. I like Chalice and Sphere here plus the usual hate cards.

[barcode]

Awhile back, Smokestack was brought up as a really good answer to Miracles. Tireless Tracker combos well with Smokestack, because Tracker can make a bunch of clues, Stax can sack the clues, and Tracker's +1/+1 ability triggers off of any clue sacrifice - including Stax.

Just a thought, it could be a good combo from the board. Smokestack works well with Loam and Exploration anyway.

This is an interesting idea. If this takes off perhaps Buried Ruin is appropriate to go with it. I've liked Smokestack in the blue build of Lands but it seemed out of place in RG...perhaps until now?

[Skyl3lazer]

I've never bothered bringing in spheres against miracles, is it actually worth doing? If so, why?

[Alexeezay]

I tried 3 Thought-Knot Seer in the sideboard at the legacy star event @ GP Prague. To support it, I ran 4 Chalice/2 Thorn to not make Seer cost 5 mana with a Sphere.
It was super strong against Miracles, got forced by SneakShow and took parts of the combo (faced SnT 3 times in a row).
With Exploration you can play it on turn 2 so that's fun...I really like the possibility of a creature plan with Trackers/Thought-Knots/whatever else.

In my experience against Miracle, Chalice is much better than Sphere, not only against Mentor but also to counter Swords for Marit Lage. I might keep the change of 4 Chalice/2 Thorn/Sphere

@Skyl3lazer: I don't like Spheres against Miracles because it slows you down as well and they have so much time unless you got a fast combo...
but against the Mentor version it might be a necessary evil? I would really like insight on this by players like Jarvis Yu or David Long.

[jhport12]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Smokestack against Miracles

Part of why people are using Boil and Boseiju (instead of Choke) is because Miracles players are using Wear//Tear in the board to deal with the Chalices and Spheres that Eldrazi love to play. Smokestack is equally vulnerable to Wear//Tear, and it takes time to set up.

If you can't dredge Loam, having a Smokestack out against Miracles isn't nearly as effective. If we're assuming Smokestack doesn't get countered, I'd rather cast Boil to take out 2+ Islands and get the flexibility of Boil being an instant.

[barcode]

@Skyl3lazer: I don't like Spheres against Miracles because it slows you down as well and they have so much time unless you got a fast combo...
but against the Mentor version it might be a necessary evil? I would really like insight on this by players like Jarvis Yu or David Long.

Completely agree. The first card you want against Mentor Miracles is Chalice of the Void but the next best card is Sphere of Resistance. Don't start bringing in Spheres against all Miracles or you'll hose your own Krosan Grips. Miracles can easily filter land draws with Top and out-mana you!

[jhport12]

I've never bothered bringing in spheres against miracles, is it actually worth doing? If so, why?

It slows them down quite a bit (they have many cheap cantrips along with their other spells) and makes Rishadan Ports even more effective.

We have a lot of dead cards against Miracles, so there's room to bring them in. Some people prefer to keep Punishing Fires in the main against Monastery Mentor, but Jarvis Yu stated last December that he doesn't think that's the best approach and I tend to agree.

[jarvisyu]

It slows them down quite a bit (they have many cheap cantrips along with their other spells) and makes Rishadan Ports even more effective.

We have a lot of dead cards against Miracles, so there's room to bring them in. Some people prefer to keep Punishing Fires in the main against Monastery Mentor, but Jarvis Yu stated last December that he doesn't think that's the best approach and I tend to agree.

fwiw, I've started leaving in 1-2 pfire, but having all four pfires is pretty bad.

I never tried the Tabernacle approach barcode mentioned, and that's probably an oversight on my part not to try.

[Djehuti]

I've never bothered bringing in spheres against miracles, is it actually worth doing? If so, why?

Rudy briksza seems to think so (source: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/th...ll-fair-decks/). I guess instead of reactively dealing with their hate, you pro actively attack their efficiency. I haven't tried it personally so i can't attest.

[barcode]

Rudy briksza seems to think so (source: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/th...ll-fair-decks/). I guess instead of reactively dealing with their hate, you pro actively attack their efficiency. I haven't tried it personally so i can't attest.

In my experience it just doesn't work out against the generic "Miracles Decks"

The best start for Sphere is to play it turn 1 (Mox + Port, even) and if you don't they can (and probably will) play a Sensei top. Once they have a top they can more easily construct a game plan of going late and using top to make land drops. We've got no way to filter our draw so we don't reliably make land drops which means we can fall behind the mana advantage and become unable to cast our reactive spells.

[heckler]

went 2-1 in an 8 man event last night to take 2nd place. won round 1 against burn 2-0; he was a fairly new player and some of his mistakes was the reason I fared so well. Lost round 2 to high tide turns (the overall winner); game 3 i made marit lage 3 turns in a row and he kept up the boomerang effects. I forced him into trying to go off turn 5 or 6 on 5 lands and he made it. Afterwards he told me he was really just going off to find a capsize and try to stall the game further but found the pieces he needed instead. I won round 3 against Deadguy ale 2-1; game 1 I made a token on turn 4. game 2 he had mother, batterskull and a flier along with sword of pro black and enough mana to bounce the equipment. my tireless tracker chumped a 6/6 germ token with pro black and lage was kept in check by the flier. game 3 I had a fast combo into swords. I was able to Pfire his board and crop rotate into the combo again which he drew wasteland. a few turns later I gambled for loam and started over and eventually attacked for lethal.

I brought in tireless trackers against high tide and deadguy matchups. honestly, last night they underperformed for me. I had things i was trying to work with my mana and without acceleration was unable to investigate while putting up a fight.



In my limited experience, boarding in spheres against miracles was a mixed bag. If i could stick them early, I could tax the cantrips and sometimes get openings through force of will. The thing is, they are one part of several you need against miracles; there is no smoking gun card, it's the combination that forms the soft lock. Most of the time I can board out enough cards against miracles where spheres get to make it into the deck.

[jhport12]

In my limited experience, boarding in spheres against miracles was a mixed bag. If i could stick them early, I could tax the cantrips and sometimes get openings through force of will. The thing is, they are one part of several you need against miracles; there is no smoking gun card, it's the combination that forms the soft lock. Most of the time I can board out enough cards against miracles where spheres get to make it into the deck.

I was about to respond to barcode along the same lines: Sphere may not be as good as Chalice, but it is part of a package that is very necessary to compete with Miracles (i.e., the soft lock you are referring to).

Right now, when I play against Miracles I bring in 4 Krosan Grip, 2 Chalice of the Void, 4 Spheres of Resistance and 3 Choke. That is all of my sideboard except for a Karakas and a Bojuka Bog. I take out 4 P. Fire, 3 Maze, 4 Crop Rotation, 1 Manabond and 1 Glacial Chasm. Soon I will begin testing the Boseiju/Boil/Tireless Tracker sideboard.

Whether they play Jace or Mentor main, Sphere slows them down. If they play Snapcaster, it becomes harder to effectively use. Sphere also hinders Mentor token development. It can force them to do things over two turns that they used to do in one turn, giving us more land-drops and more chances to draw stronger hate cards or assemble the combo. Also, Rishadan Ports are important for us in this matchup and Sphere makes Ports better.

[CovenantElite30]

fwiw, I've started leaving in 1-2 pfire, but having all four pfires is pretty bad.

I never tried the Tabernacle approach barcode mentioned, and that's probably an oversight on my part not to try.

When can we expect to see your detailed tournament report?

Are you writing an article for the website your write for?

[Chatto]

Hey, I rarely Post here since I'm to late mostly to lazy, but whenever that one GP in Europe finishes I write a little bit about it.
My previous scores are 7-4- drop, 6-3, 11-3-1 (top 100) and now this time 8-4 drop.
I wasnt quite satisfied with my performance this year but I changed some things about my list and I think the diffrence between the list from last year to this year might be interesting to some.
I don't have time right now for the list posting but that will come soon. So consider this a teaser ;)

Looking forward to your report, and curious about your list

@ Alexeezay: did a friend of yours played Solidarity?

[.Ix]

Tired of losing to the random fast combo decks that I keep seeing here. Starting 0-1 in most of my matches is tough. I'm playing this 61-card list tonight:

4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void

4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam

1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

I cut 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Maze, 1 Riftstone Portal, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Manabond, 1 Tranquil Thicket from the stock RGCL to get here.

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Zuran Orb
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Dark Depths
1 Punishing Fire
1 Maze of Ith

Probably terrible, but it seems like it's got a better chance of beating combo than stock.

[barcode]

Tired of losing to the random fast combo decks that I keep seeing here. Starting 0-1 in most of my matches is tough. I'm playing this 61-card list tonight:

4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void

4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam

1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

I cut 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Maze, 1 Riftstone Portal, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Manabond, 1 Tranquil Thicket from the stock RGCL to get here.

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Zuran Orb
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Dark Depths
1 Punishing Fire
1 Maze of Ith

Probably terrible, but it seems like it's got a better chance of beating combo than stock.

32 lands and 4 moxes? wat