I've been playing 3 fetches since I started playing with the deck, about a year and a half, so I can't really comment on the difference between 3 and 4, but 3 has worked very well for me.Originally Posted by filln
Since when are four Fetches standard? I only went up to four during my brief period playing RGb, which I dropped because it just wasn't my cup of tea. Moved back to RG and three Fetches without hesitation.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
4 seems slightly better with TT in the board now
3 Fetch 3 Taiga is fine for me.
My mistake, I swear I've always seen four fetch for most lists but looking back at mtgtop8 I do see a lot of three fetch. Sorry about that. :)
I played 3 fetches (and 3 Taiga) for all of last year culminating in a top 32 finish at Legacy Champs after 11 rounds of swiss. This year I've played 4 fetches (3 Taiga currently and previously 2 Taiga + Bayou or Savannah depending on the tests) so I'm somewhat qualified to give an opinion:
I prefer 3 fetchlands with 3 Taiga and a forest. It's frequent that the 4th fetchland is close to dead draw (saving discarding to a random Mox or Crop Rotating it away). This calculus changes very minorly if you have Riftstone Portal in the deck since that fetch turns into a Savannah. More fetchlands is obviously better for a Tireless Tracker sideboard plan but we all have to ask of ourselves: is it worth it to dilute main deck? Is the 4th fetch better than the first Karakas or Bojuka Bog? I don't believe it is. If you're playing four fetches without a maindeck Karakas or Bojuka bog please cut the 4th fetch and add one of those two cards to your maindeck and free up a sideboard slot. Try it out, you'll like it.
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I've always run 3 fetches 2 Taiga and 1 Forest, my argument is you got the color fixing when you need it, and if you need a loam target having more fetches doesn't really help, unless you get riftstone portal in your GY, I just feel like having more fetches than fetch able sources doesn't work statistically, ( with no actual math done on my end)
EE4 was pretty hot, I don't think the AC was running all the time... It was on in the mall though, and I hung out under an AC vent between a few of the matches
Ran a pretty standard RG list, included Bog and Boseiju maindeck, no riftstone portal.
SB consisted of 4xSphere, 1xChalice, 4Grip, 1xKarakas, 2xTracker, 1xVortex, 2xBoil. Last three may well be changed, and I will be testing vs sneak show MUCH more as I made mistakes.
I can give a summary of the matches.
Match 1: John on RG-B Splash Lands 2:1
G1: He crop rotated a bog into play removing my loam, I drew another loam, and he crop rotated for wasteland targeted his bog, and recurred with loam. I conceeded after a few turns when he also dropped an exploration and essentially locked me out.
G2: In trackers and grips. This time I crop rotated a Bog into his loam on the second turn and then dropped a tracker into play. Beat with tracker and used clue tokens to pull ahead while he never drew anything that mattered.
G3: Got a quick exploration into play with loam and wasteland to begin a lock. When I got dredged out a second wasteland and the depths combo, he conceeded with I think a port and mox in play and no loam.
Match 2 Wes on Omni Sneak/Show 0:2
G1: He went first, dropped 2xlotus petal, fetched an island, cast show and tell, dropped in omni, cast emrakul. Brutal.
G2: In spheres, grip, tracker, karakas, chalice. I was forced to mull to 4. His deck did what i was supposed to do. Dropped a sneak attack, griselbrand entered 14 cards were drawn, and emrakul joined the party.
Match 3 Tommy on Sneak/Show 0:2
G1: His deck did what it does, emrakul/griselbrand crushed me without much resistance.
G2: Same sb for me. Game drew out with a sneak attack on the board for him and a emrakul in hand, with a karakas in play for me and an exploration and loam active. I gripped his sneak attack at the end of one of his turns, and he cast blood moon on his following turn, essentially ending the match with all 4 grips and all tracker in the graveyard. Stupid play on my part, I conceeded the match.
Match 4 Richard on RUG Delver (I think) 2-0
G1: Not much for notes on this one, I quickly got out a marit lage who did her thing.
G2: In trackers, vortex. He dropped a deathrite into play and forced my exploration. Goyf followed up and I pfired his deathrite. I dropped a tracker and which quickly became bigger than the 3/4 goyf with a few fetchland drops. The goyf chump blocked, he cast another, it chump blocked, he did a little digging with brainstorm and then shortly after died.
Match 5 Jonathan on DNT 2-1
G1: I got a quick wasteland/rishadan port/tabernacle/loam lock and he conceeded.
G2: I started to get my engine going while he played thalia and a factory. Sacred ground came into play and I got stuck with 2xloams never drew anything relevant and died to the aforementioned beats.
G3: I got exploration into play and started loaming while he droped vial and then thalia into play and started beating. Found a Maze and rishadan port/wasteland while he dropped into play karakas and mangara. He fired mangara off at Maze of Ith in my endstep and tried to hold priority with a vial on 3? I crop rotated out maze for tabernacle. A judge was called over who ruled that mangara's ability didnt remove her if the target was already removed??? Anyhow he'd tapped vial, I pfired mangara dead in resp. From here on I was able the waste/tabernacle lock him out and find stage/depths combo for a conceed.
Match 6 Steve on Sneak Show (again?) 2:1
G1: This game went long me with exploration and part of the depths combo. He cast a sneak attack and then activated, I cast a crop rotation and got depths. Griselbrand came into play and drew 14 cards and then died to marit who blocked. I attacked with marit who was chump blocked by another griselbrand who gained him another 7 cards. He cast a jace next turn and bounced marit. At this point he had 3-4 lands and a petal, while I had 10+ lands and maze among them. I got another marit into play and attacked into another griselbrand who drew him 7 cards and while I mazed my marit... I began to loam back the combo and bogged his graveyard. He drew with jace and found an emrakul which was mazed and I lost 6 lands. This happened 2 more times and I ran out of permanents. I made a mistake at one point that cost me the match when he used griselbrand I could have returned Pfire and shot him dead, but I missed it :frown
G2:In the same as last sb vs this deck... I dropped a karakas and a mox, cast chalice on 1 which was forced. He dropped a land and a petal. I dropped a thespian's stage. He fetched a land, cast show and tell into sneak attack, I dropped Dark Depths and activated end step.
G3:I got the combo ready for turn 3 with grip in hand, while he had sneak and emrakul in hand, but not enough mana to cast it and drop emrakul. He conceeded. PHEW.
Match 7 Andrew on RG Lands 2:0
G1: I dropped exploration and had Marit ready for a turn 3 kill which he couldn't stop.
G2: In grip, tracker, karakas. He played a land mox and loamed. I dropped a bog, mox, exploration and a land. He played a port and ported during my upkeep. I dropped another land and dropped tracker. Tracker quickly got very big while beating and I wastelocked him. He conceeded.
Match 8 Stephen on Reanimator 2:0
G1: He careful studied griselbrand into grave and I crop rotated into bog when he tried to cast exhume. I had a combination of rishadan port/wasteland on black from here on and he conceeded.
G2: In spheres, chalice, tracker. I was able to again bog his reanimate attempt. From there I was able to lock down/waste his black mana and drop sphere. He did manage to get another creature into his grave, but I wasted my bog end step and then recurred it w loam. He conceeded under lockdown.
Game 9 Dave BUG Delver 2:0
G1. I went down to 11 before locking him out with tabernacle and wasteland.
G2. I went down to 8 with a tabernacle and maze in play, while pfiring 3bobs and 2 deathrite shamans before getting a conceed. Used thespians to copy grove and was able to recur pfire though deathrite. At one point he drew and missed his tabernacle trigger and was pretty amazed when I let him take it back. To be honest though I had him dead already and he knew the top card from a delver trigger anyways...
Resulted in my going x-2 and getting 200 in credit which became a Tropical Island...
Nice report and well done!
Do you have a moment to talk about Primeval Titan and how it may help in the Sneak Attack matchup? ;-)
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Can we get a head count, who is all going to Worcester in a couple of weeks?
I myself will be attending.
I'll be there for sure.
my EE4 report, i take horrible notes I know.
I was on RG very similar to the GP Columbus list of Jarvis. I played my fun-of Centaur Vinecrasher in the manabond slot, and played bog main over karakas.
Ryan / Miracles
G1) lose die roll, see island/top. let out a groan. I get to loam unchallenged for a bit as he hasnt found counterbalance yet. So i make a quick token, even though he has white up, StP of course. but i loam back both pieces and start again one land at a time. Counterbalance hits the table soon after and I stop trying to loam but i have 2 copies of each combo piece in my hand/board at this point. so i make and lose the combo once more to a terminus. a rishdian port is no where to be found during all this he then asks if i want to concede, i said no as I'm sitting at 40 life and not seeing a threat on his end. he then reveals his hand of 2 snap casters and a 2nd stp..for the sake of time i concede the game to the CB lock
G2) I keep a hand that contains chalice and boseju. I win.
G3) I'm moving along quite well, boseju in play, porting his lands, no rest in peace. half the combo on the board, the other half in my hand...then blood moon, I got nothing, then blood moon #2, i got nothing again, then jace. he fates seals me til death and the 3 cards he put on the bottom were gamble/grip/grip
0-1
Steve / UW Eldrazi
G1) I win with a stupid fast token, didnt even see much of my opponents deck, but enough to see its blue white eldrazi
G2) I was all ready to win fairly quick again, then I stare at a Drowner of Hope, which pretty much ends my ability to win with marit lage as i cant kill the tokens as i sided out PFs. we goto g3
G3) I get beatdown rather quickly down to 5 live, but then bring out marit lage and swing unblocked.
1-1
Ryan / Storm. I know Ryan from previous EE4 satellite events
G1) Last time i played Ryan, he played 4C delver, so I pegged him on that after a turn 1 trop/ponder. So a few turns go by and nothing really happens as he can trips and I build 4 mana up and I drop my spice Centaur Vinecrasher for a 6/6. Next turn he does what storm does.
G2) Stupid fast token again. Exploration + crop rotation + stage in my opener.
G3) I posted about my start to this game earlier in the thread. T1 swamp, pass. I decide to port the swamp and play chalice @ 0. a few turns later of me not getting stage or crop rotation leads to a land drop, many rituals and 2 copies of tendrils.
1-2
Ryan / Burn. yes 3 Ryans out of 4 rounds.
G1) lose die roll, mountain golbin guide. shows crop rotation. fantastic. play mox, forest, exploration, stage. next turn another guide. trigger 1: depths, trigger 2: another depths. He scoops, I show him the 3rd depths already in my hand.
G2) another stupid quick token. 2 Mox diamonds, stage. Next turn knowing a crop rotation cant be countered is the greatest thing.
2-2
Joe / Grixis. A friend of mine from my LGS.
G1) Joe usually plays silly decks (charbelcher or some DRS/SFM deck i forget whats it called), but does well with them, we've split plenty of round 4s at our LGS weekly. And he jokingly wants me to concede to him cause of the bad matchup so i think its one of them...nope hes on grixis. gets an early delver, gets it flipped and i cant find the answer fast enough.
G2) He doesnt show a threat as a slowly mana deny him and draw into the combo.
G3) If island/top is my least favorite opener to see, fetch -> underground sea/DRS might be number 2. So thats what happens, he goes Sea/DRS. I stupidly run a gamble into a daze, then the following turn he plays 2 more DRS...yes 3 deathrites. his next turn he wastes my taiga and surgicals it...a little unorthodox but his train of thought was see my hand and take me off red mana. 2 other interactions of note is while his board is volcanic and sea, I try to waste the sea to stop the DRS black mana attack...he then casts bolt, dazes it via the underground sea. and he did it the right way to pay for the daze effect so i took 3 and lose a wasteland. And after seeing 2 dazes I draw a tireless tracker and think, dont play around daze, play around bolt, I can atleast get 1 card i figure. so with 3 lands in play and a fetch in hand (and forst in deck) i tap out to play tracker...it gets dazed. I lose to DRS black mana ability and attacks.
2-3
Jason / BUG Delver
G1) I have a punishing fire train going keeping his board clear and start pinging him until marit lage shows up
G2) I take a few attacks but then eventually drop Centaur Vinecrasher as 5/5 and win on his back.
3-3
James / Colorless Eldrazi. Another guy I know from satellite events, thats right in a tournament of over 300 people, I may know about 10 people in the room. In 7 rounds of magic, I pair with 3 of those 10.
G1) James knows I'm on lands, I know he's on Eldrazi. He wins the die roll, goes city / chalice for 1 and chalice for zero....my hand is a mox, gamble, and lands. I waste the city and pass. He plays Eye and passes. I play a fetch or port or something and pass, he plays a tomb and thought knot...i lose 5 turns later after drawing 3 spells i cant cast, and 2 useless lands.
G2) He shows off some fancy new tech that got from the GP Prague player, his deck is now more Eldrazi stacks than aggro. Hangarback Walker was his mvp. He plays 2 of them in his first 2 turns, then also a needle on stage. Which really hurt me, I had a super fast hand w/ loam. Then also a curcible comes into play and he replays his wasteland, and then i draw the grip...I have to take out of the crucible because a repeating wasteland while I have no exploration is game over. So i do that, then get his WL off the table, and play depths...and start thawing it out the way it was intended. I take some beat down to 5 life then hide behind a glacial chasm...which you know without stage or exploration, is a lost cause, but i think I can buy enough time to thaw my depths out....and I almost do, get it down to 1 counter left. but then a turn before I can, he plays Phyrexian Tower. which lets him sac his Hangarback Walker and get chump blockers for days. Oh and even before that hit...a smokestack hit the table. It was an interesting game to say the least.
3-4 drop.
I dropped because a) the room the hot as balls b) i'm out of prize bubble c) the venue this was held at was awesome. It had some great nik-nak stores and upstairs was a wrestling museum. Overall I enjoyed it. Changes I would make would be taking the portal out of the main board, replacing it with Ghost quarter or 4th fetch. and then taking out boils for warping wails. DRS and sorcerys were hurting more than islands.
Sometimes I play magic good. Sucks we ran into each other, in the rounds anyway.
I still find it funny that I inadvertently stopped your Vinecrasher by delving away my graveyard to cast Angler the turn before.
oh yeah forgot about that game 1 interaction. I'm gearing up to cast a vinecrasher that'll be like a 8/8 or 9/9 on my next turn. On his turn he casts angler and exiles all his lands. when it came back around to me, my centaur would of been a 4/4 and gotten destroyed by the zombie fish...oh well. Still enjoyed the games.
I live in Boston, but sadly don't have a car. I haven't been to a large tournament in awhile. For those who want to test their Legacy skills in advance of the Open, JP Comics is having a Legacy tournament for Duals on July 2nd: https://www.facebook.com/events/1620233071626722/
Monday there was the weekly Legacy tournament at my LGS. The previous week I went undefeated, which was a nice re-entry to playing Legacy again. I run a pretty standard RG Lands, but with Boseiju in the main deck and just 3 fetches (which really makes sense to me, personally).
Round one was against NicFit, win 2-1
Game 1 - I have the nut draw. Turn 1 Manabond, combo in hand, attack on Turn 2. Literally the fastest win we can muster.
Game 2 - He had Path to Exile, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, and Surgical Extraction. It wasn't pretty. I knew about the instants in advance because his Sorin revealed them, but it was just too much to deal with.
Game 3 - I have a quick combo and he doesn't have Path to Exile.
Round two was against Miracles, lose 2-1
Game 1 - He gets counter lock and has a Swords for the one Marit Lage I make.
Game 2 - I Grip a Top, get the combo and he doesn’t have removal (felt a little bit lucky here).
Game 3 - Takes a long while, I Grip an Ensnaring Bridge (wrong play) instead of a Rest in Peace. I think that because I have two Depths and Stages between board and hand, that I’ll be ok. It doesn’t work at all. I DID get to Boil away 4 lands, but he drew 3 lands off the top. If he doesn't draw 3 lands, it might have ended differently. I die to many angels.
Round three was against Mana Dredge, lose 2-1
Game 1 - He mulls to 4, not much of a fight.
Game 2 - We both mull, me to five. I get a Sphere, but he has 3 lands (of course). I had a Crop Rotation, but I wasted it early on when instead I should have saved it for an instant speed Bojuka Bog.
Game 3, - I get an early Sphere which really slows him down, BUT it prevents me from casting Loam which stops me from getting the land I need to activate the Stage and Depths I have in play. I spend 5 turns drawing non-land cards in a 30+ land deck. One of which is Gamble (a glimmer of hope), which I cast for Bojuka Bog, AND he gets me to discard with a random dice roll. 20% chance he hits it, and he did. Them's the breaks.
I definitely had some bad luck here and there, but the reality is that I made some bad side-boarding decisions against Dredge along with misplays in both the Miracles and Dredge matchup. I know my deck pretty well, but this is my 2nd tournament after a year+ break from playing Legacy. My skills are rusty and I should bring side-boarding notes along with me.
@ jhport12: tough luck, next time will go better!
While I live in the Netherlands, I know for a fact there is a train going there. It's still a long haul, but worth it(of course it depends on where you live in Boston)
Last edited by Chatto; 06-22-2016 at 05:19 AM.
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
For the last GP Boston-Worcester I flew into Boston and took the train to Worcester. It was pretty straightforward and may be an option for you.
Sadly I will be missing this SCG event. I'm doing a lot of travelling this year and it just isn't in the budget.
♀
Why was that a stupid play? Otherwise you're leaving up a kill condition and he can likely double activate Sneak to force through Emrakul. I can see saving it for the Blood Moon in hindsight...G2: Same sb for me. Game drew out with a sneak attack on the board for him and a emrakul in hand, with a karakas in play for me and an exploration and loam active. I gripped his sneak attack at the end of one of his turns, and he cast blood moon on his following turn, essentially ending the match with all 4 grips and all tracker in the graveyard. Stupid play on my part, I conceeded the match.
I want to talk about Sylvan Scrying.
At GP Columbus my round two opponent had this spicy number in his RG lands deck and I kind of like it, in theory. It's not as flexible as Tolaria West, of course, but then again we do not need to play Blue for Sylvan Scrying. I like the synergy with Boseiju and I like that we don't need to sac a land for it like with Crop Rotation. Of course this is a Sorcery and that has real drawbacks.
I'm not sure if I'll get around to testing it (too much on my place) but I'm curious if anyone on the board has been using it.
♀
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