Sure, everything's worth testing. If the board is Vial on 3 + 4 mana and you topdeck a Recruiter, cast Recruiter for Recruiter, Vial other in for this guy then you can be attacking with two 4/4s next turn and 3 4/4s the turn after (3 5/5s if you draw a land.) I think that's the real potential, the fact that this naturally combos with Squadron Hawk'ed Recruiters. Opponent doesn't actually know what exactly you're doing until your next turn either. I think it would work best against DnT or Maverick style matchups, where you're pretty likely to have a boardstall unless someone wins immediately.
Vs Miracles it seems a bit meh because you don't want to overextend either in creature or in mana expenditure, though with Vial it might be able to surprise lava axe them once in a while. Vs grindy black decks you have the x/1 risk, but it's maybe less risky than other x/1s since it gives you the ability to buff in response to Zealous/Golgari, so it's only consistently bad against Dread.
PS People (playing all D+T variants) should really get on with playtesting the new Thalia. I am curious.
Stupid question from someone (me) who never played the deck but is considering building it.
Is Karakas still that needed in the deck ? I mean, I now see typical decklists with only one eligible target : Thalia, which is indeed a 4-of, but it's not like there's that many smart interactions possible with it, is there ? There's the "damaging your blocker in combat through first strike and activating jitte and sword, then returning Thalia to my hand before your blocker deals damage", but it looks like that's it. Am I missing something ?
I'm not specifically on a budget, but this is still an expensive card, and if it's reasonable to cut it, I wouldn't say no to save 200€.
Originally Posted by cdr
Karakas is, in my opinion, a necessary part of the manabase. Just look at the Imperial lists, you still want 3 Karakas even though you're down to 1 Plateau and 3 Plains. Karakas just destroys otherwise unfair matchups like Sneak&Show, Reanimator and to some extent Lands (bye bye marit lage). In addition to that it bounces your Thalia in case someone wants to kill it, and with vial on 2 you're able to deploy her again before the bolt/plow/whatever resolves.
It might suck to buy them, but once you've learned the tricks there's no way you're dropping them from the deck. 3 Is the magic number and has been since the legend rule was changed.
What this is really saying is that 3x Karakas is better than none, and there's probably not much to say on that point (thanks for pointing out the S&S / Reanimator matchups though). Not running it is suboptimal, but it doesn't look like the deck suddenly ceases to function or plays poorly without it - I mean it's not like if something like Mangara was still in the list.
The deck isn't unplayable without Karakas, but your overall win % will go down. There's nothing special about playing three, one Karakas is better than none, if you can get it, and two is better than one. The downside of playing Karakas is very low (involves playing a non-basic, occasionally you get multiples) and the upside is...you just win the game because you have a land with infinite unsummons attached. It looks innocuous, but it is an extremely broken card when it's good and we have the luxury of squeezing in multiples, which is important when you have no card draw or filtering. You can't mull to Karakas if you're only playing one.
Yeah, people get a bit carried away with how good it is. It's obviously great, and you should play as many as you can, but plains is a totally reasonable alternative if you just don't have them. In the recent GP, I think I activated Karakas once in 14 matches, and the fact that it was there was relevant in one or two other games (just because I didn't play against the matchups where it really shines). If you're building towards the deck but can't get them yet, just play 3 plains with different art from the rest of your deck so you can see the games that you could've won if you had them.
Oh, I could ; the question is more whether I'm willing to. Especially since Karakas prices have been slightly going down recently (probably due to the EM release), so even if I end up going for it (not obvious at this point), waiting a bit would not be such a bad idea.
Thanks anyway.
As some already mentioned it, but it's great against Sneak and Show, Lands, Reanimator, Nic Fit, and several other random decks. It's considered best if you play 3 (in my mono white I play the full set, 3 in my Imperial version).
Sometimes it's not going to do a whole heck of a lot other than make you mana, and maybe save Thalia (or abuse Mangara if you're playing it).
It also sometimes can be excellent Wasteland bait so that you can keep your Rishadan Port to continuously irritate your opponent.
I highly recommend playing 3 if you can do it without breaking the bank (or if you're crazy like me, the full set in mono white with 21 lands... It works for me though).
Cockatrice: EMFry
Hello all,
I 6-0'd a Sunday side event at GP Prague with Arbiter Taxes. Played 4 Stoneforges ^^
Bug delver 2-0 (8 stripmines and - post SB - 6 plowshares really rapes delver)
TES 2-1 (not easy of course. Sniped a fetchland with a mindcensor in one game but not sure running this build makes a huge difference)
Sneak and Show 2-1 (lost a game to Kozilek's Return)
UR Omni 2-1
Mono U Omni 2-1 (scary matchup)
Elves 2-0 (mulled to 4 game one, got Thalia, plains, vial, stoneforge. Drew revoker, karakas, mindcensor for my first three draw steps. Revoker on Heritage Druid + being on the play meant I somehow was able to win. Mindcensor foiled a natural order late in the game).
Deck feels strong. Will continue to play around with it. Am mildly excited about Thalia Dos. Might be win-more'ish in this build but oh my the feel bads on the other side of the table will be strong.
Last edited by nevilshute; 06-25-2016 at 10:58 AM.
Hey everyone I have a quick question. Not asking in a rude way, just genuinely wondering, why doesn't imperial taxes have a separate thread? I feel it's significantly different enough of a deck especially when you consider how many 1-ofs the deck runs thanks to imperial recruiter and how different a lot of matchups end up being. I enjoy all conversation of DnT but I just feel it may be different enough of a deck to deserve its own thread and would love more in depth analysis to be devoted to the deck.
This is the RW death and taxes thread... the mono w death and taxes thread can be found over on the MtGSalvation forum. If you want to participate in discussions regarding RW version, post here, posts regarding Mono W are best posted on the MtGSalvation thread...
Since...when? I've read about mono white DnT here for years...
And furthermore, I've been to those boards, you are better off asking a baboon your boarding questions than try to folly with most of those magical hacks.
I dont get the MtGS hate on this forum. Ive found the members and mods of MtGS to be much more respectful, civil, and intelligent than the people on here. The threads are bustling with great content and mature members.
Last edited by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat; 06-26-2016 at 05:18 PM.
It's a more casual forum. I've found a lot of good players over on MtGS but also a lot of casual players asking questions about playing GQ over wasteland for budget concerns and asking if "thousand handed one" is good vs "the Aggro decks." It's a more casual setting which is perfectly fine, but it's why we come to the source for some more competitive discussions.
I certainly hope you were joking about the taxes discussions as such since that is not the appropriate attitude to have regarding the discussion (go elsewhere, this is the RW taxes forum now). I'm honestly just wondering why imperial taxes doesn't have a separate thread here and the reaction to isolate people from the source would certainly not be the approach to have. Again, if you were joking, disregard what I'm saying
Imperial is only a handful of main-deck cards away from mono-W D+T and the core strategies remains the same. Legends Miracles vs Predict Miracles probably contain a similar number of differences, and various 12-Post/Nic Fit/Maverick/Eldrazi builds can be wildly different and they manage to share a thread. I wouldn't be opposed to a thread, but I wonder what the appropriate lines for hair-splitting are. Splashes have been discussed in this thread over the years, the only difference was that they never ended up having long-term competitive success. Maybe at this point, with the last GP result, there's been enough competitive success to justify the new thread?
Sometimes I do feel bad about crowding out mono-w players, but I think mono-w build is (for the most part) a 'solved' deck that has had few major changes over the last 3-4 years so there's just a lot less to discuss until it's time to test a new hatebear or SB card. Whereas Imperial is a not-completely-solved T1 deck that has relatively few people out there solving it; there's naturally going to be more to talk about.
From my experience MtGS members are just as competitive as Source members. There might be a "casual" from time to time but primarily the discussion is from a competitive standpoint.
I dont care if I drive people away from the source, i dont owe anything to this website...
I have noticed that discussion here is mostly about RW and discussion there is mostly about Mono W as well as the fact that MtgS has better members and mods and that is why i think it is right to point mono w players over there
I think that's a pretty concise answer. I don't feel like you're crowding out mono white DnT and frankly enjoy the discussion, but I feel imperial is in a lot of ways its own identity or own deck. It's similar to the delver variants having their own threads.
I just feel that with imperial having recruiter, that changes so much. You have different sideboards, different one-ofs you can run, your matchups change here and there, some getting better, some worse. I don't know if it's worthy of another thread, but it seems to be a different style and deserving of a concise write up.
@LegacyisanEternalFormat
As for the idea you don't owe the site anything, totally fair. However if you don't feel your part of the community and don't mind sending people away then nobody has any reason to take your opinion for much on the topic. And if you honestly can't see the competitive differences between the source and salvation then that's on you, but you are totally entitled to your opinion. I don't feel it answers the question or progresses the idea that the deck might be worthy of its own forum by saying, "this is the forum, go somewhere else." When death and taxes has seen most of its play and success and discussion as a mono white strategy here
When I said go post in the Deck threads I did not mean start shit in them.
If you feel like this site is not fulfilling your needs you are most welcome to leave. But you are not welcome to act in a manner that actively drives people from the site. If you continue to do so you will be removed from the site and no longer be welcome here.
Dice.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Truth be told, the grunt work of DnT was done almost entirely at Salvation before Thomas Enevoldsen ever got hold of it. I had a hard time drumming up a conversation here because of the exclusive culture of this site for a very long time, while Salvation had a handful of fellows willing to test an unproven deck. The participation level has still not dropped off. There are some players still active on that thread who have been piloting this deck since oh, 2009 or something. The sophistication of the discussion is on par with this one, at least.
LegacyIsAnEternalFormat is understandably salty from an unrelated conversation he was recently part of, and I imagine he has no love for that same exclusive culture. Just give the guy some leeway while he gets his footing. It's one thing to know how to play the game. It is a different animal to mix it up with forum rats. We were kinda hard on him.
LIAEF, I got made fun of mercilessly in fantastic fashion. There are still some fellows around who remember it. It's no big deal.
Anyway, the red deck seems to have legs after every other splash color has been tried. Pretty impressive, really.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I don't know if I came across this way, but I didn't mean to imply salvation is a bad forum or place for discussion. I talk there all the time and have gotten some great ideas there. I just meant to say it's a place for more casual discussion. That's all. And it is. Not that there can't be competitive or good discussion as well as great ideas, just that there's gonna be more casual ideas and such than here at the source. One is not necessarily better, they're just different
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote