I think the mage can go. Nahiri plays its roll a bit better. Fwiw I've found Burrenton Forge Tender/worhip to be the anti red combo. But i play 3 tutors md.
And that's why i was questioning the nahiri/Emrakul and RiP/helm. If others are going to be doing the combo, life miracles for example, rip/helm is an insta kill and trumps Emrakul. Maybe i just don't wanna see the day where painter run an Emrakul
IMO Emrakul doesn't have a place in Painter, but Nahiri still does. She functions very well without a finisher for her ult, and we'd rather not have a clunky draw, especially emra which messes with the yard.
I've never really tried RiP/Helm combo as I believe a 1/1 split combo is fragile, and multiple RiPs is worthless (so is Helm without RiP).
But if Miracles starts packing Emrakuls it's worth considering for sure.
I usually bring in my one of rest in peace when I am playing tarmogoyf strategies. Would you bring in multiple rest in peace on this matchup and the helm as wel? If so do you side out your grindstones?Originally Posted by jandax
I think the mage can go. Nahiri plays its roll a bit better. Fwiw I've found Burrenton Forge Tender/worhip to be the anti red combo. But i play 3 tutors md.
And that's why i was questioning the nahiri/Emrakul and RiP/helm. If others are going to be doing the combo, life miracles for example, rip/helm is an insta kill and trumps Emrakul. Maybe i just don't wanna see the day where painter run an Emrakul
Nahiri is great but she really doesn't deal directly with chalices and equipment. It seems silly to remove all artifact hate in lieu of nahiri. I don't know how you can say she has the same function as mage.
What goyf matchups? I think the only time I bring in RIP against goyf strategies is against jund and rug delver. Against BUG decks I think that goblin welder is one of our best cards and it seems a little silly to shut him down.
I don't think you want the package against delver decks but I would probably bring it in against BGx decks. It's a win condition that is hard for them to interact with them.
I'm biased because I play a md vandal. I play that card in the 75 instead of Mage because of the mana requirements. Nahiri is still good under a moon. Mage pales under a moon.
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@Jandax u estimate vandal better then duergar hedge-mage? (i play with 3 Plateau and 6 fetchlands for more white sources and more shuffling, so i'm not totally sure about that...)
Well I was basing that off of the standard mana base. With more white sources I totally see it living up to its potential
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I think it's fair to argument that Vandal performs better against chalice, as it can drop T2 without SSG/Petal, and functions with ex. 1 mountain and x sols. It's not too often Hedge won't be able to trigger, but it does happen.
So in this regard, I'd say Vandal fits better main if you drop Jaya because atm Eldrazi is a thing and you'll probably need a reliant chalice-cracker.
But duergar's ability is generally better against fair decks, and would fit better in sb between the two.
I agree to all that and want to add that i expect to play against a bit of X/2's and blue combo and control. Mostly the fair decks where i want to be playing more mono red style, slamming moons and what not.
I would sooner run 1-2 engineered explosives in the main then start playing vandal. Vandal, while fast at getting rid of chalice, often rots in your hand on account of no "may" in is text. Mage on the other hand can be deployed as and when needed.
I will not argue that a chalice from eldrazi is bad for us but honestly, we are 75% favoured in that match up and chalice on 1 doesn't stop any of our bombs against them. I have won ALL of my games when they start with chalice on 1.
My focus would be directed to gaining % against miracles not something we have one of the best match ups against.
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Just wanna point out that I assumed pre-board while comparing, and personally I've never swayed from Duergar in SB (and Jaya main atm).
And ofc, eldrazi is not at all a bad matchup. But I gotta ask tho, how do you win through T1 chalice without landing welder/grindstone first?
My only thoughts would be a planeswalker, which isn't too normal main, or Jaya. That's why I stated Vandal main could be fair if you drop Jaya, but I wouldn't play him otherwise.
Last edited by Morcrux; 06-25-2016 at 12:28 PM.
Playing two fiery confluence in the board instead of two sulfur elemental. Fiery confluence is a thing. Might want to go up to three. Still open to bringing sulfur elemental back. Oh and the NJ Devils got Taylor Hall. Totally unrelated but fuck yeah.
Yeah, I've been playing three fiery confluence in my board now and totally dig them. I wasn't a huge fan of sulfur elemental. It wasn't bad but confluence does so much more. I have probably used for the artifact destruction more than anything. Although you do have to be careful about making sure all targets are still in play at resolution. I had a game where I did two damage to all creatures and killed an artifact. In response my opponent killed the artifact and confluence fizzled.
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Yeah you blew me the fuck out with Fiery Confluence on modo yesterday... (I was the one playing Taxcake). Feels like a deece card.
But if at least one target is still legal it will resolve and just have no effect on the illegal targets no?
Yeah, you only have to be careful if you pick 2x wipe and an artifact destroy, anything else should be quite safe.
Depending on the state your outcome wasn't to bad. Still a 2 for 1 and they had to get rid of their artifact removal. As long as the board state didn't kill you it isn't a bad outcome.
Well, it was against Death & Taxes and it should have been like a 5 for 1 do it was not great for me. Luckily, I had a second one in my hand and was able to wipe the board the next turn so it didn't cost me the game. It was a heads up play by my opponent though and i just wanted to point that out.
Nothing else going on on this board?? So I caught a guy on TWITCH the other day who was streaming painter and he was playing with Nahiri and Emrakul in the board. Anyone else catch this or is this guy on this board at all? Just wondering how that is working out. I know most people on here aren't big fans of the strategy but has anyone else actually tested it?
Hey, I don't get that one. The ruling of the confluence says:
[...]
11/4/2015 If all targets for the chosen modes become illegal before the Confluence resolves, the spell will be countered and none of its effects will happen. If at least one target is still legal, the spell will resolve but will have no effect on any illegal targets.
In my understanding the szenario you described should result in you sweeping the board and only the third mode of the confluence fizzling or what am I getting wrong?
edit: the moment I posted this I got it - you only have one target, hence it fizzles... my bad...
I'm interested if anyone has tested Monastery Mentor in Imperial Painter. I've been playing one copy in the main deck for a little while now and it seems pretty good, especially when you board in more removal. It might be a good alternative win condition while opponents are focusing on disrupting the Painter's Servant and Grindstone combo. Monastery Mentor also helps turn some of the deck's dead draws, like multiple copies of Sensei's Divining Top and Grindstone, into tokens.
P.S.
It's always a pleasure to see you stream, Jack.
Last edited by Lyle Hopkins; 07-06-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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