This is pretty far away from what I would consider the "stock" enchantress variations. Maybe you could write us up a short primer, explain common play patterns, interactions and what might make this a superior version of enchantress. How dependent are you on the opalescence parallax wave interaction? How reliable is setting up the engine with fewer engine pieces total?Originally Posted by Freggle
Interesting list, Freggle. I'd also like to hear more.
I played GW Enchantress in a side event at SCG Dallas last weekend (I've got a report up, if you're interested). I was trying out a Newlamog, which I was happy with. It got me thinking: does it make sense to have 1-2 Ulamogs in the 75 to improve the Miracles matchup? Ramping to 10 is pretty reasonable, and consider the outcomes of casting it:
- It gets countered, but exiles stuff like Counterbalance, Jace, or Mentor. That can buy you time to win.
- It resolves, exiles some stuff, and then dies. However, killing it will probably either eat a Council's Judgment, gain you 10 life off StP (thereby buying you time), or bait a Terminus (which could clear the board of a threatening Mentor).
- It resolves, exiles stuff, and they can't answer it. Now you have a 2-turn clock.
I'd be interested in people's thoughts. I just figured playing a little bit more like 12-Post seems smart against them.
Has Emrakul not been enough for miracles?
I'm not really sold on it. It doesn't really address our problematic MUs, and vs miracles I can think of quite a few cards that I'd rather have.
For me, no. I've found that I struggle through the early-to-mid game against Countertop, and am not able to get Emrakul online before something like Mentor eats me. I'm obviously not cutting Emrakul, but I thought Ulamog might be an interesting way to speed up my clock and help the matchup.
If you're on the black splash I've found doomwake and dread of night to both be excellent cards vs monastery miracles. Jace and entreat can still get ya, but it makes life difficult for them.
Deck has been created in N&D here. Comparisons to Enchantress have not been made yet, but would likely be better in the thread.
I went 3-2 last night with a list fairly close to the one that I posted a few days ago.
9 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 dryad arbor
3 serra's sanctum
4 windswept heath
4 argothian
4 zenith
4 presence
4 utopia sprawl
4 wild growth
1 exploration
4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
3 suppression field
2 rest in peace
1 banishing light
2 mirri's guile
1 enlightened tutor
1 emrakul
1 sigil of the empty throne
1 helm of obedience
SB
4 leyline of sanctity
2 journey to nowhere
2 surgical extraction
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
1 doomwake giant
1 dread of night
1 humility
1 oblivion ring
1 replenish
An extra forest somehow found its way into my decklist, so I accidentally ended up with a 61 card deck. As a result my mana was excellent all night, and the extra basic was nice to have in my match vs mogg stompy.
R1 0-2 vs UR delver. I lost to a pair of very fast starts from UR. I was close to stabilizing both games but well timed countermagic took out my solitary confinement.
R2 2-0 vs Mogg Stompy. Game 1 he had 3 ball and moons, but he never had chalice OTV so I was able to establish the engine, turtle up with solitary, and eventually find the combo. Game 2 was similar. Confinement kept me alive until I could find RiP and Helm.
R3 2-0 vs DnT. Game 1 my opponent had a very fast clock but no mana disruption, so I hid behind some grass and drew cards until I assembled helm/RiP. Game 2 my opponent mulliganed to 5 and I had T2 argothian plus dread of night. It probably wasn't hopeless, but he scooped pretty shortly after that
R4 2-0 vs Naya Zoo. Both games were won by quickly turtling up behind a solitary confinement
R5 1-2 vs Mogg Stompy. Game 1 he has blood moon and 3 ball and he gets kiki-jiki and settler on line to nuke 1 land per turn, but I have an exploration and I an slowly able to develop my mana. THis game went like all the other ones that I won, engine, turtle up, assemble helm/rip. G2 he puts a goblin rabblemaster on the board on T2, then follows up with a moon on T3, and a chalice at 1 on turn 4. I had several enchantresses on board but was lacking white mana, and the turn after he casts chalice I find a utopia sprawl that would have given me white. G3 was similarly short. I have a powerful but kind of fragile hand, and he just casts goblin settler to set me back to the stone age.
Nice performance, Dingo! Tough luck on the final Stompy round - Rabblemaster is a hell of a clock.
And thanks for the tips on Black. I've thought the GWB version looks strong, but hadn't considered the Dread of Night application vs Miracles. I think I'm gonna be trying to R splash for a bit (I feel like having fun with Blood Moon) but will try B after.
I've tinkered a bit with the red splash because who doesn't want words of war and sylvan library? But I ultimately abandoned the red splash in favor of black because unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a whole lot other than words of war and blood moon. Maybe sudden demise and seal of fire are worthwhile?
I'll be running out a list tonight at my local fnm-level event that is testing out Nahiri the Harbinger (baring a work disaster which prevents me from going). She's way too clunky in most Legacy decks but I'm genuinely interested in trying her out in a deck which wants to run Emrakul already.
I don't currently have Words of War in the list but it's sitting in a binder if I change my mind before tonight. The big reason I want to play red right now is Blood Moon. I'm sick of Eldrazi and there's enough greedy mana bases in the local meta to take advantage of it. If I had to guess, I'm going to guess that black is still a better splash but I like to mess around with small tweaks like this because you never really know until you run it out there.
Definitely let us know how it goes. elephant grass unfortunately does not protect Nahiri so I fear that against lots of decks she will just die in the combat step.
How many blood moons do you plan on playing?
Yeah, the wording on elephant grass sure is unfortunate. It's possible different anti-aggro tech would be a better fit. I'm not going to go out of my way to point it out to my opponents though >_>. Totally possible it will be bad but I've built weirder decks. I plan on playing 2 Blood Moons out of the side.
Isn't there some commander enchantment that has a taxing effect or something that prevents the enchanted player from attacking you or PWs you control?
You might be thinking of my frequent lifesaving 1-of, Sphere of Safety.
I went 3-0 to split last round tonight.
(2-0) vs Burn
Game one he opened with a Lavamancer but I had RIP down quickly. I pop sterling grove for Solitary when I'm at around 10 life and have no problem locking the board down and finishing with helm just a turn or two later. Game two starts with a leyline and I banishing light his Eidolon and make it impossible for him to win pretty quickly.
(2-0) vs Aggro Loam
We both start game 1 on a mull to 6 but my mulligan is much better. I develop a board much faster and have plenty of engine so race ahead before he concedes. Game 2 He makes winning slow because of a Teeg preventing me from Helming as I drop to 7 life while getting attacked by Confidant, Teeg, and a neutered Knight but eventually pull an O-ring for the Teeg and mill him out.
(2-0) vs Painter
In game 1 he makes a T1 painter followed by a T2 grindstone but I just flip my deck for the Emrakul trigger. He looks through it and the game continues. What's interesting is that he didn't see Nahiri because I had her in my hand at the time. He makes a Nahiri. After getting slowed down by a pyroblast on an enchanted land I eventually make my own Nahiri but mine has higher loyalty because he ticked down to exile a Sterling Grove. That gets followed up on his turn by Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge. Now we are both durdling a little until he finds Jaya. We continue to fight over Jaya, I banishing light her and he exiles Banishing Light. I eventually find RIP and ult Nahiri for Helm to win.
Sadly he doesn't even really get to play G2 because he mulligans to 4 and doesn't ever find anything past a single Mountain.
I loved Nahiri. She felt super powerful and very versatile. I will definitely be playing and tuning this list more. I felt like I was making good use of my sideboard and it felt good to not be groaning over Chalice at 1 by moving the curve up a bit. For specific choices I'd like to be able to play Exploration and Words of War definitely needs testing at some point.
Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
3x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience
Planeswalker (1)
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Land (20)
7x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Savannah
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Taiga
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Creature (6)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Sideboard (15)
1x Aegis of the Gods
2x Blood Moon
1x City of Solitude
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Replenish
1x Rest in Peace
1x Sterling Grove
2x Stony Silence
1x Worship
Scald is pretty hilarious against Delver and Miracles. Pseudo-maindeck-able like Carpet of Flowers. Burning Earth is sometimes better, and expensive is not really a thing for this kind of card in the deck. Citadel of Pain could possibly be good against Lands and blue decks that only want to cast spells during your turn. Spellshock is fine once you have Confinement up, but it requires your opponent to do things. Stormbind is probably the best red enchantment that lets you discard for damage, but it is still expensive and the discard is random. At the point it matters it is probably not so much a "cost" as annoying. Witchhunt is also hilarious, but again you need Solitary Confinement or Leyline out to make it good. The best red enchantments are pretty red-intensive, or require creatures to be good. So mostly win-more for us. I've looked over gatherer so many times, and those are the stand-outs on my list of crazy stuff.
I think I saw this one a stream last night.
Why would he scoop to Rip then Nahiri? Did he let the Nahiri activation resolve? Couldn't he just grindstone in response so you have nothing to find?
When I went back and watched it I realized I could have won a turn earlier. If I used Banishing Light on the Ensnaring bridge instead of Jaya he was tapped out and couldn't grindstone. I could've just grabbed Emrakul and won there.
I'm just working through this and I'm basically an anti-judge when it comes to figuring these things out but if he grindstones in response then the library gets flipped and Emrakul trigger goes on the stack right? The Emrakul trigger resolves first and my deck is back to normal for searching.
If you have a RIP out and a grindstone activation has happened, the Emrakul trigger never goes on the stack because it never hits the graveyard and goes straight to exile because of the RIP. Unless i'm misunderstanding the situation (I haven't watched the VODs) in response to your Nahiri ultimate your opponent could have just activated grindstone exiling the remainder of your library because of RIP.
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