[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

It works well with Veteran Explorer... I like it better than birthing pod because of the increase in speed which is very important(the same reason why it is so much better than Natural Order)... It also has much more flexibility

[square_two]

Well I was considering trading off some of my online collection, now I'm definitely going to keep the Nic Fit stuff.

T2 Skyshroud Cutter into Grave Titan, here we come baby.

[Onua1]

This has some serious potential.

Can't we also use this to go vet->Bone Shredder or E Wit->Shriekmaw?
That seems pretty great to me.

[helvetios]

3->5
Kitchen Finks, Eternal Witness, Trinket Mage -> Titania, Gitrog, Baneslayer, Archangel of Thune, Acidic Slime, Sigarda, Thragtusk (quick way to get Thragtusk out if you can't cobble together 6 mana for GSZ)

Kitchen finks into Reveillark or Karmic guide seems fun as well! ;)

[Brael]

The new tutor is neat, I like that it has speed over Birthing Pod, but the exile clause is pretty significant. One thing that's certain is that the chains are much different. One of my favorite Pod chains when running white is to get Ranger of Eos and then get 2 Deathrite Shaman. That doesn't work here unless you run a 2 drop which we're normally short on.

Overall I think that Pod is slower but more powerful, GSZ is faster and more powerful, and Intent is faster but less powerful. I don't really see myself wanting to use it.

Edit: On the subject of chains with this new card. I've been wanting to work Monastery Mentor into Nic Fit for awhile because of the synergy with Tops. Mentor is a great chain with this card. You either sac Mentor, get a token, and then get a 5 drop like Reveilark which can get back your Mentor and something else, or you sac a token (and get a new token) and get a 2 drop like SFM, Teeg, or Ooze.

[anime85]

EE seems like it would be really neat in Rector build, specifically.

[Echelon]

Concerning Eldritch Evolution: FIERCE EMPATH, DELVE CREATURES, YEEEAAAHHHHHHH.

That's all I have to say for now. I am going to pick those up, I am going to do crazy shit with them.

I shall call it Heavy Metal Nic Fit and it will be glorious.

[Navsi]

I don't know if Rector is the right place. Generally rector builds are lower on the big creatures, and if you get a Rector trigger you probably pretty much win anyway in a lot of matchups.

It's fine for finding Rector but the issue there is that you need 2 drops really, which aren't that common in Rector builds. I guess there's Herald of the Pantheon? I don't feel like SFM works as well in Rector. Is there anything with a better etc/ltb which fits in okay?

[square_two]

I don't know if Rector is the right place. Generally rector builds are lower on the big creatures, and if you get a Rector trigger you probably pretty much win anyway in a lot of matchups.

It's fine for finding Rector but the issue there is that you need 2 drops really, which aren't that common in Rector builds. I guess there's Herald of the Pantheon? I don't feel like SFM works as well in Rector. Is there anything with a better etc/ltb which fits in okay?

Maybe go ever further down the enchantment rabbit hole and start running Argothian Enchantress?

[cavalrywolfpack]

Maybe go ever further down the enchantment rabbit hole and start running Argothian Enchantress?

At that point we're just a bad enchantress deck, right?

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[Claymore]

Just go Explorer -> Eldritch Evolution -> Explorer, then kill the explorer somehow. Up to 7 lands on turn 3, 7-8 mana turn 4. You'd have 2 basic lands untapped and a live Explorer. If you can kill it for free (flashback Therapy), you get 4 untapped lands (7 total) and can kill with Scapeshift on turn 3.

[cavalrywolfpack]

Just go Explorer -> Eldritch Evolution -> Explorer, then kill the explorer somehow. Up to 7 lands on turn 3, 7-8 mana turn 4. You'd have 2 basic lands untapped and a live Explorer. If you can kill it for free (flashback Therapy), you get 4 untapped lands (7 total) and can kill with Scapeshift on turn 3.

You need three lands to cast the Evolution though. It honestly seems a little slow in the early turns of the game. And if it's countered we just sacced a dude and tapped ourselves out. It seems too high risk.

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[Claymore]

Killing Veteran Explorer is the point of Nic Fit.

Three lands on turn 3 seems...reasonable. Turn 2 Therapy, Explorer (let him live), Turn 3 Evolution on Explorer, etc.

[cavalrywolfpack]

Killing Veteran Explorer is the point of Nic Fit.

Three lands on turn 3 seems...reasonable. Turn 2 Therapy, Explorer (let him live), Turn 3 Evolution on Explorer, etc.

I don't know why I was thinking of saccing the Explorer turn 1, and then again turn 2. I've been at an electrical job today and I'm bone tired and can't think straight.

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[Arianrhod]

I don't know if Rector is the right place. Generally rector builds are lower on the big creatures, and if you get a Rector trigger you probably pretty much win anyway in a lot of matchups.

It's fine for finding Rector but the issue there is that you need 2 drops really, which aren't that common in Rector builds. I guess there's Herald of the Pantheon? I don't feel like SFM works as well in Rector. Is there anything with a better etc/ltb which fits in okay?

You would Evolve Rector into Yosei and grab Recurring Nightmare.

[square_two]

You would Evolve Rector into Yosei and grab Recurring Nightmare.

Dangit @Arianrhod, my Starfield build is already janky enough as-is...now for this additional temptation...

The real issue here is that Rector is a lightning rod for exile removal, and can be very difficult to survive a turn unharmed. That's the point of having additional Phyrexian Towers than normal in this version. Playing Rector and then already having 3 more mana available doesn't seem (to me) to happen very much at all.

[Ulysse95]

For anyone testing the Starfield version online, I found out today that there is a bug preventing Academy Rector from tutoring Curse of Death's Hold into play. I was talking with the judge chat and they didn't see any reason for it not to work properly. I'll raise a bug report but I don't it is high priority

Also, the timestamps involved between Humility and Starfield of Nyx are the timestamps of when those cards enter the battlefield. The timestamp of when Starfield's ability "turns on" doesn't matter, which is something I was wrong about. If you play Starfield, then later play Humility, then when your enchantments turn into creatures, they will be 1/1's. You have to play Humility first, and then get Starfield into play and online. This appears to work correctly online.

Yes. A few things you have to know about Humility, the master card of the dark side of the rules:
- you check the stats of each card at each changement of the game state before anything else.
- as you say, humility and starfield change stats of enchantement according to which between humility and starfield came last. If it's starfield, then humility then a new starfield, the new starfield rules.
- according to layers rules, about continuous effects, you check each layer effect and apply it to the game from 1 to 7. According to that, some creatures along the worst keeps their ability functionnal (even if it's like they only have a blank on their text boxe):
*layer 1: copy effect. So if a doppleganger copy any creature, it's still like that creature even if it result a 1/1 without ability.
*layer 2: control-changing effect. So if a sewer of temptation came before humility, giving you the control of another creature, you keep control of that creature (note that if sewer left the battlefield while humilitu is still there, you keep control of the creature since no trigger occure). But if the same occure with a "as long as you control" effect such as Willbreaker, if you loose control of willbreaker, you loose control of the stolen creatures.
*layer 3: text-changing effect. (It a bit more twisted for the exemple since there is really few relevant cards) if Swirl the Mists come into play with an humility and an active starfield (the order don't matter), and for exemple you said red; the result is that any sword of feast of famine (or any other one) give protection against red 2 times (again, when any of them came into play don't matter)
*layer 4: type-changing effect. So a Magus of the moon under humility keep changing non basic lands into mountains (again, order of enter into play doesn't matter). NB: it's also here that Starfield give the creature type to other non-aura enchantements you control.
*layer 5: color-changing effect. So Painter's servant keep changing all cards into chosen color even with an humility around (again, you don't give a shit about order of etb)
*layer 6: effect adding or removing abilities. First layer of Humility ability. In this layer, all creatures loose their abilities (as if they had a blank text boxe). It's own effect can't remove the ability giving the effect (under Starfield, Humilty still remove it's own abilities but not the one removing abilities). If it removes abilities of a creature giving an ability, as it's in the same layer, as long as this ability doesn't affect humility, the ability is removed before affecting other object. Even if it came after humility. (not sur about what happens when an Archetype of courage that came after Humility when it's a creature...).
*layer 7: effect setting/changing p/t. So it's their that humility saiys creatures are 1/1 and Starfield says that enchantement-creatures are X/X where X is the converted mana cost.

I think the best thing going for it is that it has certain enchantments that can really take over the game and shut down a lot of decks. Lot of stuff folds to either Humility, Curse of Death's Hold, Doomwake Giant, or simple Pernicious Deed recursion thanks to Starfield. There are not many legacy cards that remove high cmc enchantments. I like the idea of shutting down Sneak/Show just with Humility, instead of relying utterly on hand disruption and surgical extraction effects. The deck can pretty quickly either get lands into play to hardcast them, or tutor them up with Rector. So far my real issues with the deck is just getting familiar with it, seems like a very different twist, and it has by nature some odd interactions.

One downside is that it is a very grindy version, moreso than other variants. I don't think you'll be able to be aggressive enough to stop 12Post before they setup shop, and Burn can be problematic (although I think Burn is tough if you don't either have SFM with Batterskull/Jitte, or 4 Rhinos to come down asap). But dang is this deck the king of grind. SFM or Rhino versions can probably race to lethal much faster against a stumbling opponent.

Probably weaker to graveyard hate, but that is small.

I'm unsure yet on the Miracles matchup, but Ulysses is having a good time, I think, with it. It seems pretty good on paper.

Access to GSZ, Rector, and Sterling Grove mean that you can pretty reliably find what you need, and Eidolon of Blossoms provides some mid/late game drawing power (I'd say similar to Tracker, perhaps stronger, but Tracker can work "alone" if you will).

In fact, the most relevant change when playing enchantements version over others version is that you came from an aggro oriented deck to a controle oriented deck.
With a lot of tutors (GSZ, SDT, Rectors and Sterlin groves), you mostly have access to the right answer when needed.
After managing the treats (creatures in play or counters in hand), you bring a Starfield of Nyx to set a lock and have a win condition.

So, the purpose here is not to rush into them with beaters faster than they do, but to make them loose their win conditions.

Main deck, their's really few answers to >3 ccm enchantements. Adding sterling grove, there's almost only Council's Judgement and All is dust remaining.
But it's true that we are weaker to grave hate (vet, rector and starfield effect).

I'm trying to adjust my list according to my experience of the deck and incoming ideas from the thread.
I will list archetypes I saw frequently and comment the match up from my point of view:

-burn: MD courser is a hight priority. Faith's fetters are a really good help to go further in the game and can give us the game if recursive with starfield. Post side: Leyline of sanctity is quite a insta win if in starting hand or early put into play.

-shardless: their big creature threats are often kept away by a vet or a rector that they fears to activate. Giving you time to ensure you a no counter with cabal to whipe all out with deed or quite settle the game with starfield. Shaman is quite a pain in the ass (even if players I met often realize to late that they can manage rector triggered ability with it), but there's 2 dead weights along with the deeds waiting for them.

-tempo: they have quite only Delver to reach us without hurting vet/rector, which buy us a lot of time. Once again, dead weight do marvellous things here. You have to be aware of daze and turn around it. And be carefull of stiffle and wait for cabal as long as possible when they keep an untapped U; before activating rector. Or be able to launch a bunch of triggered abilities to get ride of them.

-eldrazi: I used to run chromanticore, which was quite a win alone with itself against them. Now, vets and rector keep blocking all of their creatures (except with smasher/endbringer around). But we need to be aware of warping weil. So keeping an untapped tower is quite a key. In my current version, Doomwake giant is a must. Living plane can be a great help (quite insta win if both of them). Parallaxe wave buy a bunch of time (and kills endless).

-Aggro-loam: recursive deed is really impressive.

-Lands: need to check now. Was an awfull match up. Need to see how it does with living plane and parallaxe wave MD.

-Miracles: they are used to be the controle deck. But we can manage to be controlling them instead. They don't know us so they don't expect that. As for others fit, we are quite miscurved to easily fell into their countertop. Using big threats as deed to either swap the board or use their counters, avoiding stp with either immediat cabal flashback or active tower for tutors creature, or groves to enchant creatures. So they became quite dead cards to them. And terminus is not a big deal, often sacrificing enchant creature to tower to bring it back later with starfield. As they don't use to loose in late game, it's often too late to win extra games for them when they realize it. Yes, it's quite a gamble and you have to play smoothy to not fell under angels for exemple. Doomwake giant can deal with quite all of there creatures as goes to dead weight. Faith's fetters take off jace.

-Storm, belsher and co: harsh MD, Spirits and leylines are really good after. Be aware of goblins and keep deeds around ;)

-Tribals: recursive deeds for the win. With groves against elves. Doomwake giant too. And humility... ^^

[Ulysse95]

I forgot to plug in my current list:

1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Eternal Witness
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Living Plane
1 Parallax Wave
2 Dead Weight
2 Faith's Fetters
2 Starfield of Nyx
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sterling Grove
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium

[jbone2016]

You would Evolve Rector into Yosei and grab Recurring Nightmare.

Rector ----> Sun Titan and Deed.

[cavalrywolfpack]

I'm thinking about dropping down a Rhino (so down to 3) to mainboard Glissa. With Eldrazi, Infect, and Death and Taxes making appearances in my meta she seems like a worthy maindeck inclusion. Thoughts?

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