The problem with pithing needle against storm is that there's no real targets to name, as LED's ability is mana ability.Originally Posted by Whit3boy316
It's still probably worth bringing in because sometimes you can get their fetch lands, and our removal suite is pretty close to dead in this match up.
Generally any amount of graveyard hate is good to bring in in this match up as it makes the past in flames kill significantly more difficult.
Chains is obviously also good against storm strategies, just be aware it doesn't turn off the ad naus kill.
And then obviously any additional discard comes in.
I play Loams sometimes.
Yeah giving them black lotus over led isn't terrible for them . Has anyone tested rakdos charm? But if storm is very prevalent in your meta . Try mindbreak traps.
Sudden Shock is an incredible piece of removal. It's extremely potent against Infect; as noted, they can actually counter Abrupt Decay with Vines of Vastwood and Lightning Bolt with Vines and Invigorate. Remember that (except for Sudden Shock) you need to use your removal on your turn, not on their turn; you'd much rather have them burn a Vines on your turn to counter Abrupt Decay than on their turn where it is also worth 4 poison.
Sudden Shock looks perfect for your metagame. It's excellent against Infect and Death and Taxes, where it always kills Mother of Runes and increases your outs to Mirran Crusader. It will do work against Deathblade decks as well.
As noted, Jund is at its worst against combo decks, and your meta looks like it's full of fair decks. Manaless Dredge is straightforward to beat: dedicate serious sideboard slots to that matchup. It won't get you to 100% against the deck, but, given advance notice, I'd rather face Manaless Dredge than either Storm deck.
I've run a singleton Rakdos Charm in my sideboard at times alongside a mix of Grafdigger's Cage and Nihil Spellbomb and alongside a Maelstrom Pulse and Ancient Grudge. It's obviously worse graveyard removal than the artifacts and worse artifact removal than Ancient Grudge, but the fact that it does both might save a single sideboard slot. Jund has a lot of dead cards to board out against Dredge and Reanimator, so a mediocre graveyard removal spell is worth bringing in. It's more questionable against Deathblade, where Maelstrom Pulse, Ancient Grudge, and Pyroblast are all great cards to bring in and there aren't tons of cards that need to come out.
InfoNinjas
You can also burn removal against Infect at the end of their turn. Good time for trying to kill off their Inkmoths and then untapping into more removal attempts.
I may have to try out jund then...i love it in modern...now i just have to go get groves ughh
If you have the Badlands, Bayous, and a Taiga, there are a variety of Grove-less builds of Jund you can play until you acquire the Grove of the Burnwillows. I started by playing un-Punishing lists and still haven't purchased Groves. Punishing Fire is an amazing removal engine, but you pay a real cost in the manabase to support the Groves.
InfoNinjas
Interesting i may have to look into those lists
I personally hate Grove in Jund. I think if you get away from the groves you get a more streamlined discard deck that helps your combo mus. First though just build it and start playing it, its a fun deck to play that can go in several design directions. I wouldn't commit any money to anything until the b/r announcement, but if youve got the mana base minus groves go get some games in:))
Can't agree more . . . Jund without the Pfire combo works perfectly fine. In addition, I've been trying out 3 Sinkholes maindeck lately and I feel like it's just perfect in this current meta.
I switched back and forth between Non-Punishing and Punishing Jund. When Omnitell was all over the damn place, I switched to a non punishing build that had a lot more discard and MD Chains. Now I went back to the stock Punishing List, as creature based strategies are back in the fold. The manabase in a non punishing build is a huge plus I will say, it even lets you run blood moon if you feel daring.
Punishing can play a very strong control game. Don't discount the usefulness. It's true, Grove does nug your manabase a bit, so play a one-of Loam main to supplement with good mana development.
Is there a reason ti wait for the b/r list? Hopefully goodbye top
i'm hoping the goodbye top as well:) The only reason to wait is that lately when they ban something they unban something else, now none of those have had format impact since prbably Time Spiral, but who knows, if they unban mind twist or earthcraft those could have design ramifications for us. Also, if Top goes we may be on the worng deck and it may be time to migrate to Junk. I think no matter what the B/G core of Deathrite and AD will have a tier one list, but without miracles directing the metagame we may want to shift towards a deck with swords over lightning bolt, again all speculation on my part, we'll see come the 18th:)
One question i thought of when you spoke about b/g decks is why someone would chose jund over shardless? I personally play shardless now and i love it but it doesnt seem to have enough removal for my d&t, infect meta :(...thats why im considering the move to jund
Because of Punishing Fires so you can have a better long game and control game.
I built Shardless because of the shitty combo MU I have with Jund but I'm sitting here looking at SUPER removal light hands wondering how I win against the creature heavy meta. I guess it comes down to what you want to lose to. Do you want to lose to the rare combo deck or the popular creature deck? As Shardless you have a chance against creature decks and comb but as Jund you have a GREAT creature MU but one of the worst combo MUs.
How do we beat Storm? After losing to Caleb Scherer at Worcester I asked him how I'm supposed to beat him and he said that you have to hope for the Thoughtseize or Hymn but I had the damn Hymn T2 and he won right through it. He said that some guys in his area who play Jund are STILL trying to figure it out but they don't have anything yet.
Like how the fuck can there not be any way to actually combat Storm? We don't have a silver bullet. We just have MD cards that we try to increase the number of hoping that that's enough.
Null Rod, Chains of Mephisto, extra discard, or go the Zoo route and play some Mindbreak Trap if you think you're facing way too much storm.
----------The Combo Matchup----------
I've been debating running Inquisition of Kozilek over Hymn to Tourach in the maindeck. Hymn is a more brutal card, but IoK increases your number of turn one plays (which are a bit sparse, while the two-drop slot is very crowded) and increases the potency of your second turn if you lead with a Deathrite Shaman. It's disappointing to cascade into IoK instead of Hymn, but I think the curve-smoothing might be worthwhile. It also lowers your curve a bit for Dark Confidant. I think IoK has a slight edge against combo when compared to Hymn.
In addition to 4 Thoughtseize, 3 Inquisition of Kozilek (or Hymn to Tourach), and 4 Liliana of the Veil, I run 2 Kolaghan's Command in the maindeck. My board plan is 3 Duress and 2 Slaughter Games against combo. Depending upon the flavor of combo you face most often, Pyroblast is often in my board as well to nail Brainstorms or Show and Tell.
----------New Cards----------
Might Collective Brutality* earn slots in Jund? The Disfigure and Duress modes are both relevant, and, as discussed immediately above this post, the deck could use some more disruption maindeck. In the lists I'm playing it seems like Collective Brutality competes most directly with Kolaghan's Command for versatility, but Command appears to be a much stronger card.
*New cards not loading at this time, so for reference:
Collective Brutatity 1B
Sorcery
Escalate-Discard a card.
Choose one or more:
Disfigure,
Duress for an instant or sorcery,
Tendrils of Agony with storm count 0.
InfoNinjas
Lock permanents seemed to have the most effect when I played Jund. Discard followed up by Thorn, DRS, Chains, and Liliana to clean up. Likely could go the slow Chalice route too and hinge on getting the turn 1 interaction.
Imperial Taxes (I think) has had luck with Scab-Clan Berserker in the past. Obscenely slow outside of a risky DRS start, but we can usually slow storm down a turn or two...Thoughtseize, Thorn, Berserker seems good.
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