Actually I forgot to put that down coming out against Sneaky Show!
Against Grixis it may be right to keep it in, but here I think there's a subgame depending on whether they brought in blasts for me or not. Ideally I'd like to have Shows when they don't have any blasts, or not have Shows when they do have blasts.
With Miracles I like the idea of them having to bring in blasts while I have the luxury of not even needing the SnTs.
Against Infect I'm revising my ideas, they have only 1 Wasteland usually and the rest is taxing counters. Show and Tell should be resolvable. Chasm beats poison, doesn't it?
EDIT: The larger problem with the Leylines is probably the lack of cards getting pulled out in Shardless and Jund matchups. I just don't see much that is bad against them in my main deck, nor most main decks posted on the site. If that's the case, Leylines are a bust.
Last edited by Lormador; 07-13-2016 at 04:25 AM.
What here would you cut for the (second) Candelabra that just arrived in my mailbox? ;)Originally Posted by My Decklist
I'm also considering trying out 2 Song of the Dryads and would love to hear people's thoughts on what to cut for them, as well.
EDITED TO ADD: My thought is to take out a Green Sun's Zenith for the second Candelabra. And if I add 2 Song of the Dryads, I remove the other two GSZ, and swap the Reclamation Sage in the sideboard with a third Krosan Grip.
Last edited by cwcomposer; 07-13-2016 at 09:18 PM.
I would either drop a top or the maze of ith. Personally I like having a Tabernacle mainboard and have the option to board into the maze in place of tabernacle.
Candelabra plays great with Maze of Ith, I would advise keeping it for at least testing. You could do -1 Top or even -1 Needle. If Miracles is big in your area, you may want to do -1 Crop Rotation because Crop Rotation does not play well against Countermagic.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
I would cut Top. I've cut them all and hardly miss it. There's already so much card selection.
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I think it's best to go to 3 Wails than cut Tops. Multiple copies are easy enough to shuffle back in, and few 1 drops are as good across every stage of the game. Also they are the first line of defense against discard. 3 Crop Rotation sounds fine too with how blue most metas are.
I think I'm going to stop referring to "the" meta. All are local.
So I've done a bit of testing with song. Like Rock said you can trap yourself very easily with cheeky plays, when you could just go for a proven line of play. One needs discipline playing this...
I admit that the card is very good for fighting magus (probably the best MB solution we have??). I have to play it more to get a better feel for it. I'm wondering why we didn't run this b4? It was printed 2 years ago and the vesuva interaction was probably discovered earlier right?
I've cast the new mindrakul on xmage a couple of times now. Slaving your opponent is not as straight forward as one would think. i messed up slaving my opponent on all occasions (or at least it wasn't optimal). Despite my poor slaving i won every game i cast her. She prompted two forfeits g1. i think the opponents were trying to avoid giving up information prior to boarding... One obvious thing to note is that she can be countered and i didn't get the chance to attack with their creatures into her. Each time she resolved my opponent forfeited and each time i got to slave them she was countered. so i guess 13 / 13 flying, trample, protection from instants + mindslaver is just too much to handle? I usually cast her for 7. The key card being... guess what rock...? Show and tell was always the 4th card type (sorcery) in my graveyard.
Anyway Mindrakul is soooo much fun. Shuffling away all their good stuff, using their removal on their stuff, ... What can upset your opponent more? Hopefully no physical violence will ensue when I cast her on paper...
I'm trying out 2x Song of the Dryads in my GW midrange build. I'm contemplating shaving down to 1 Ugin (yes I know how good it is), since Song and Ugin don't work too well together.
I've been testing what the best sorcery is for building up mindrakul. Probe, Show and Tell, and Ponder are the best options thus far.I've cast the new mindrakul on xmage a couple of times now. Slaving your opponent is not as straight forward as one would think. i messed up slaving my opponent on all occasions (or at least it wasn't optimal). Despite my poor slaving i won every game i cast her. She prompted two forfeits g1. i think the opponents were trying to avoid giving up information prior to boarding... One obvious thing to note is that she can be countered and i didn't get the chance to attack with their creatures into her. Each time she resolved my opponent forfeited and each time i got to slave them she was countered. so i guess 13 / 13 flying, trample, protection from instants + mindslaver is just too much to handle? I usually cast her for 7. The key card being... guess what rock...? Show and tell was always the 4th card type (sorcery) in my graveyard.
Anyway Mindrakul is soooo much fun. Shuffling away all their good stuff, using their removal on their stuff, ... What can upset your opponent more? Hopefully no physical violence will ensue when I cast her on paper...
In my testing I have also won every game I cast Mindrakul in. I might go to 2.
I disagree on playing anything less than 4x Wail unless you're running blue. Access to countermagic radically transforms our game 1 vs combo, which has always been a weak spot for the deck. And it easily and cheaply answers at least 75% of the creature threats that you are likely to see in almost any meta. Wail is one of the most versatile tools in our arsenal.
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Wow... I never thought I'd say this but Turbo Eldrazi with the new Emrakul is one of the first decks in Legacy to remind me of the classic "Control Slaver" archetype that was so much fun for a while in Vintage.
Dudzz i just killed one dude with his toxic deluge
P.s. he had 4 bridges i was contemplating ulamog - karakas and went 4 mindrakul instead... evil sh** he looked ripe 4 slaving
maybe even a FOW bulid??
New emrakul vs decks with deluge. I love it.Dudzz i just killed one dude with his toxic deluge
P.s. he had 4 bridges i was contemplating ulamog - karakas and went 4 mindrakul instead... evil sh** he looked ripe 4 slaving
maybe even a FOW bulid??
So been following this thread for a good year. Thought I would finally start jumping in. Please be nice to the new guy! Zot you may remember me from cockatrice same name there as screen name here. The oblivion sower eldrazi midrange build with posts I was the one online deck testing with great success on cockatrice but never took to tourny since think u/g better for bigger tournaments. Recently redid my deck. I have 2 candles MB and more old school run 4 repeals. Went 4-4 in Cbus Grand Prix...Good chance 5-3 but blew last game on purpose since no chance day 2 and wanted to jet after 11 hours. 6 combo decks and no miracles...sometimes you roll 20's and sometimes you don't. I'm not a great player but not awful and played legacy for years.
I too have not lost with mindrakaul when casted. People are not giving him enough credit. Looking to take place of kozilek. Not huge fan of him overall. Think it will help our deck greatly. Recently redid deck...dropped all my needles and exp maps. Trying something different. Maps are soooo slow. Bumped to 4 crops...yes can be countered but when land wasted I cast crop and they force it etc. Its almost always done since they know how bad things can get. Also, tells me if they have a counter. It's a huge gain still 2 cards to get my land...if know how to play them around counters soooo powerful. Upped to 28-29 lands and tabernacle MB. With higher lands and 4 crops wasteland isn't a big deal. Plus more lands to counter wastes and lead them. For Loam style decks 4 surgical in SB etc. Deck has hummed way better imo and have played post around a year now. Only 3-4 weeks with new change though. New anti discard land I'll prob run SB. Tabby is a great answer to 18 land delver decks and many other aggro decks and loved the chg to MB...even if wasted a turn or 2 later that should be game for our deck by slower them a few turns to build up. I SB it in over 75% of time so feel it was needed MB. Eye of ugin turn 1 mimics love the land as well as tapping double lands for 1 dude to save. I like MB with aggro decks flying high. Tabby on board with casting mindrakaul is very nice too. I run repeal over wails. Wails have been so lack luster for me. Mono green or G/w it's a def imo. Running blue I feel better answers and SB. 2 mana is too slow for storm at least way ppl draw against me lol. And creatures I get it but repeal does just as good and bounces many other things and draws me deeper in deck. Also plays ridiculous tricks with SDT and candles. That's my 2 cents. Appreciate the thread btw. Everyone on here has great ideas and comments. Has helped me immensely. Love the song of dryad roc. Played the damn card in EDH last 2 years and never thought of that combo! I see a few in next SB. By far funniest legacy deck I've ever played and if the driver understands the deck it's quite powerful.
Trying to make a sideboard. This is my best effort so far
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Elephant Grass
1 Moment's Peace
3 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Krosan Grip
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Looks weird, I know, but the idea is to get 60 useful cards against all DTB, let the Storm matchup slide to some extent, and crucially buy that slot for Llawan because she is the stone cold nuts against Food Chain. My local Food Chain player actually is that good, but I doubt any amount of skill on his part will beat Cavern on Cephalid into the Empress.
Hello Everyone, I've also been following this thread for awhile and thought it was finally time to comment. Traditionally I played Mono Black PrisonPox but a few months ago I decided to switch things up as we've now got 3 or 4 other Pox players in my area. It has been super helpful reading about what everyone's doing and their thoughts on certain cards. I have been building and playing around with 12post for about a year now and have read every page of this forum from the beginning (some pages more than once).
Originally when I first started out, I tested and played Mono G 12post with the full "post" package and then moved on to Gw with Thalia, Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist in the sideboard. I wasn't too thrilled with either, so I started putting together UG and I think it's probably tied for my favorite deck to pilot (though I am messing around with a Gr version that runs New Emrakul and Stranglehold).
The list I'm running is mostly a product of my lack of funds and local (almost non-existent) Legacy meta so I have a few cards in smaller numbers or missing entirely that may throw some people off, but rather than just cookiecut from Rock Lee or Zotmaster or any of the rest of you, I wanted to make the deck more my own and would really appreciate some constructive criticism/or your thoughts:
Lands:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Seat of the Synod
2 Forest
2 Island
Creatures:
1 Emrakaul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Trinket Mage
1 World Breaker
4 Primeval Titan
Artifacts:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Expedition Maps (considering cutting to 1)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mox Diamond
1 Candelabra of Tawnos (really wanted 2...)
Spells:
3 Show and Tell (considering cutting to 2)
2 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Warping Wail
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 All is Dust
So the first things people may notice are:
-No mainboard Warping Wail and only one in the SB: I just really don't like this card, I know that's like.. a cardinal sin again the structure of the deck for most of you, but it's a personal preference. I've never lost a game and thought "Man, if only I could've resolved that Warping Wail"
-I only run 2 Tropical Islands and a whopping 4 basics (as well as Seat of the Synod): Land hate is a real thing where I'm at, Wasteland and Ghost Quarter are rampant, I like to not have my colors screwed up when I want to cast since I have so many color-dependent spells. Seat of the Synod is a recent inclusion as tutorable U source if I'm desperate. Veteran Explorer is also a thing in my area, so the basics are nice
-Only 1 Candelabra. I really wanted this to be 2, but with the spike, it's out of my range for what I can afford...
-2 Spatial Contortion in the sideboard: This is kind of a pet card but it acts as either EoT removal, spot removal against Burn/Delvers or to make something too fat to go under my bridge if the deck decides to durdle
A few notes:
-Vesuva is occasionally a 1-of with a Thespian's Stage
-I have been considering dropping 1x Show and Tell and 1x Expedition Map to mainboard 2 Warping Wail, I don't like WW, but it's always possible I just haven't played enough games with it. Besides, 3 Show and Tell is excessive
-I would like to mainboard good ol' Shoalzaliek, there's just so much value in replenishing your hand, but at the moment, I think World Breaker is a stud and it's hard to make the switch
-I have a lot of trouble against Lands and Miracles, I know those are supposed to be easier match ups, but these usually end up as 1-2 at the end of the night
Thanks again everyone, looking forward to what the new set brings to the deck
The ability to do this is one of the most exciting things I've discovered about this deck.
I'm still not sold that the price spike is real. TCG mid is at $675, which is where MTGStocks gets their info. But TCG market price (the new gold standard, as far as I'm concerned, for rare cards such as this) is still at $389. Furthermore, there are a lot for sale in a few Facebook groups for mid $300s or lower.
As for beating Lands, it often comes down to Pithing Needle for me. If I can name Wasteland or Rishadan Port (whichever I fear most at the moment), I can usually start to get my game plan in motion.
Other all-stars in the matchup for me have been Bojuka Bog (in the maindeck) once the first Life from the Loam hits their 'yard, and Rest in Peace (from the sideboard).
Surgical Extraction has a lot of great targets. Extract their Life from the Loam and it's pretty much game over for their "engine." Hit their Dark Depths and it's game over for their only (scary) win condition. I've even used it to bait out Wasteland. You should've seen the look on my opponent's face when: [me: turn one] Cloudpost, [him: turn one] Wasteland my Cloudpost, [me: end of his turn one] Surgical Extraction his Wasteland.
Your Thespian's Stage is a great safety net against his Marit Lage combo; just copy his Dark Depths in response to him copying it.
Maze of Ith and Karakas will hold off Marit Lage forever. Vesuva can copy Maze of Ith or Karakas if yours keep getting Ported. The only games I've lost to Lands are the ones where they go straight for the Marit Lage combo as early as possible and I'm not yet set up to deal with it.
Well, I'll put in some suggestions, but take them with a grain of salt because I think you're more experienced with the deck than I am. I'm Internet you have, after all, even if I'm not the one you want.
My first impression is that there is a lot of graveyard hate in that deck. Two different tutorable MD answers and 4 dedicated sideboard cards may be more than needed.
This segues into my second idea, which is that the MD itself has less library manipulation and card drawing than it's possible to run, even cutting the mighty SDT down to 2 and Expedition Maps to 2 or 1. Repeal numbers are low too, which matches the low SDT count since you won't have the Spin/Draw/Repeal play very much. That's such a sweet play that I hate to lose it. Miracles has to run Predict to get this effect.
I do not understand the reasoning behind Seat of the Synod because there are no UU spells in the deck, nor GU or any combination where the Seat could make the difference. And if Trinket Mage is getting me nothing better than a land drop, I wonder whether I've cut too deeply into the library manipulation numbers.
I also do not understand this win condition configuration. Ulamog, World Breaker, and Ugin all answer problematic permanents or eliminate enemy threats in such a way as to at least stabilize the board position. They all have this same similar effect, and they're all awful Showed in against combo (at best, this is not even possible with Ugin). The Great Distortion, on the other hand, does something different. Showing this guy against a combo deck could really wipe them out, since they're forced to immediately go for it in the face of his counter ability. Against a fair deck, the D7 isn't so bad, especially at his relatively aggressive cost. Only if I'm behind against a board, on my last few life points, is this not going to get there.
So to present some concrete ideas, I propose:
-1 Seat of the Synod
-1 World Breaker (keep in mind you now you might want more Krosan Grip in the board to make up for the capability)
-2 Ensnaring Bridge (move to the board, maybe combine with Elephant Grass)
-1 Relic of Progenitus (move to the board if you want that much GY hate)
-1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+1 Tropical Island
+1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+2 Sensei's Divining Top
+2 Repeal
In the SB:
-2 Faerie Macabre
+1 Relic of Progenitus (from the MD)
-1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion (who now lives in the MD)
...putting you up 2 slots in the sideboard.
As for the sideboard generally, now that I'm more at leisure I'm pleased to post my rough ideas. If any of this flies in the face of reality, please let me know.
Grixis Tempo: 4 slots, Crop Rotations and Boguja Bog
In: +1 Ensnaring Bridge, +2 Elephant Grass, +1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Miracles: 8 slots, -3 Crop Rotation, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Glacial Chasm, -3 Warping Wail
In: +2 Flusterstorm, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, +3 Swan Song
Lands: 5 slots, -1 Glacial Chasm, -3 Warping Wail, -1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
In: +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 K-Grip, +1 Ensnaring Bridge
Storm: 7 slots, -1 Chasm -3 Needle -1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, -2 Trinket Mage
In: +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Flusterstorm, +3 Swan Song
Infect: 3 slots: -3 Crop Rotation
In: +1 Moment's Peace, +2 Elephant Grass
Shardless: 4 slots: -3 Warping Wail -1 Glacial Chasm
In: +1 Ensnaring Bridge, +2 Elephant Grass, +1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
BUG Delver w/ Stifle: 6 slots: -3 Crop Rotation -2 Trinket Mage -1 Glacial Charm
In: +2 Elephant Grass +1 Ensnaring Bridge +1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale +2 Flusterstorm
BUG Delver w/ Hymn: 4 slots: -3 Crop Rotation -1 Glacial Chasm
In: +2 Elephant Grass +1 Ensnaring Bridge +1 Tabernacle
...others maybe I'll put in later.
I've been testing, mostly game 1 in a monogreen build over the last 2-3 months. I think that, I can come out on the side of Sensei's top being a critical card. Without it, you're too often just waiting and a slave to top decks. Ancient stirrings is nice, but I think instant speed is better. This helps for matchups vs black when you're discarding half of your hand in the first 2-3 turns.
The next problem is troublesome permanents moon, chalice, chalice + moon etc. Song of the dryad would be the new hotness, but repeal always played this role previously and while many builds have moved away from it, I think that is probably not good. Whatever your color bent, cheaper faster solutions maindeck helps.
I've been playing without warping wail. With top going in, I'll look again at including it and see how these changes allow some modifications against combo.
A question I have now is, does the new graveyard mechanic and emergence open any space to yet consider using a different or maybe parallel colorless ramp strategy? Something like Zot was trying with oblivion sower, or maybe spawn driven? Is there room for thoughtknot?
Good luck out there.
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