All B/R update speculation.

[Lemnear]

Lemnear is right.

Turn 1 land + mana dork #1
Turn 2 Lotus Cobra + fetchland (landfall x1, don't sac) + mana dork #2
Turn 3 fetchland (landfall x1), sacrifice both fetchlands (landfall x2)
Tap 3 lands and the 2 mana dorks + the 3 landfall triggers = 8 mana on turn 3.

Lotus Cobra gives you 3 mana turn 3. It's not even Xmas land...

Thats not even close to what I had in mind. In Vintage you drop this creature T1 with the help of a Mox and Turn two and ongoing every Fetchland becomes a Black Lotus. So 5 Mana turn 2 in that case. Mind we don't even talk about Gush & Fastbond. Cobra Gush was a thing in Vintage for battling Sphere-effects.

I mean even in Legacy you can do some crazy shit with Lotus Petal or Mox Diamond to drop Cobra and go crazy with 4+ mana turn 2

[Zombie]

Just look at the bans from pauper to modern for combo, all but gone. Creature combos are the thing much like in ygo now and I feel wotc is pushing for that because they didn't make a creature as good as the p9 in the original sets.

The odd thing about Pauper is that they banned Infect, which is creature combo in a format that has an abundance of viable T1 answers to kill the creature or drain Invigorates so the kill doesn't happen. Storm I can understand, Nighthavk Storm was retarded, but Infect?

[Sidneyious]

Exactly

[Spam]

Just because there's an abundance of T1 removal, doesn't mean you've to play the gotcha game every game. Infect is clearly a step ahead every other deck in that format.
It's like arguing why flash is banned in legacy since there's force of will.

P.s. that Lotus Cobra art is so sweet! I've been looking for them since their release!

[Mr Miagi]

Just couple more hours

[H]

I mean even in Legacy you can do some crazy shit with Lotus Petal or Mox Diamond to drop Cobra and go crazy with 4+ mana turn 2

One of the "better" ideas of SCV (Snake City Vault) was to go Land, Mox, Lotus Cobra. Next turn, fetch, Jace, the Mind Sculptor with Spell Pierce backup. I bet that is still a pretty decent opening even today.

Just couple more hours

Indeed. I really hope something comes off the list. I ponied up and bought a playset of Survivals, not because I really think it will come off the list, but it was just about the only thing that could come off the list that I don't own.

[Megadeus]

I mean, nothing is going to happen

[Crimhead]

I mean, nothing is going to happen

WotC have been pushing Legacy online more so than in the past. They might start caring about how much "fun" this format is, or how much money it can make them. Also they might be looking at online data more than paper, which might make a ban more probable.

Indeed. I really hope something comes off the list. I ponied up and bought a playset of Survivals, not because I really think it will come off the list, but it was just about the only thing that could come off the list that I don't own.

Sold my Enchantress stuff last year, as I only ever play Lands now. But I'm thinking I miss it and might try to rebuild. So if anything comes off, I hope it's Twist and not Earthcraft yet.

[H]

I mean, nothing is going to happen

Oh, I know, it's exceedingly unlikely anything changes.

WotC has been pushing Legacy online. More so than in the past, they might start caring about how much "fun" this format is, or how much money it can make them. Also they might be looking at online data more than paper, which might make a ban more probable.

If that is true, that they have taken an interest in Legacy online, than perhaps there is a chance. I wonder if that was what that Legacy Challenge thing was about?

Sold my Enchantress stuff last year, as I only ever play Lands now. But I'm thinking I miss it and might try to rebuild. So if anything comes off, I hope it's Twist and not Earthcraft yet.

I'm down with either of those, or both.

[PirateKing]

What time do we expect the announcement so I can check back for the show?

[Crimhead]

If that is true, that they have taken an interest in Legacy online, than perhaps there is a chance. I wonder if that was what that Legacy Challenge thing was about?

Might not be a good thing. Even if people get the Miracles ban the desire, if this is the beginning of a more hands-on approach to format management we might not be happy in the end.

At least MODO is faster, so we probably won't see a logistics ban.

[H]

Might not be a good thing. Even if people get the Miracles ban the desire, if this is the beginning of a more hands-on approach to format management we might not be happy in the end.

At least MODO is faster, so we probably won't see a logistics ban.

That's true. Looking at Vintage, they sure haven't made anyone* happy lately with a more heavy-handed approach. Me, on the other hand, I don't really mind switching decks (because my collection is somewhat large), but I am usually playing some BG/X deck in Legacy, and I would have a very hard time seeing them ever ban Decay or Deathrite (in Legacy). If something does get banned from Miracles, there is going to be much gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair.

That's one of the reasons I don't invest too heavily in one deck though, I'd hate to have it banned. There is always that risk though.

*Not literally everyone is upset, but I would venture there is a (relatively) large minority of people upset by the recent restrictions.

[btm10]

What time do we expect the announcement so I can check back for the show?

11 am Eastern

[Finn]

Might not be a good thing. Even if people get the Miracles ban the desire, if this is the beginning of a more hands-on approach to format management we might not be happy in the end.

That is a really good point. Honestly, Magic players typically don't stick around long enough to appreciate this fact. But as soon as action is taken and the format swerves, a new best deck emerges and players - often the same players - again start to complain.

You can't change human nature, so I really like the idea of a gentle hand guiding rather than the Blizzard approach for exactly the reason Crimhead put forth here.

[Dice_Box]

There may always be a best deck, but as long as that deck has a half decent foil that can pin it, rotate the format, thats fine. If you have the best deck being Grixis Delver, then Lands comes along and Stomps it before being slapped down by ANT and Imperial Painter who then get hit by Delver that seems OK.

Whats not ok is when a deck is the objectively best deck for 27 months out of 28.

[MGB]

*crosses fingers*

SDT ban... SDT ban... SDT ban...

[guillemnicolau]

*crosses fingers*

sdt ban... Sdt ban... Sdt ban...

please!!!

[Teluin]

*crosses fingers*

SDT ban... SDT ban... SDT ban...

I hope they don't. It's one of the only really non-Blue cards that can help smooth out draws, and I am always amazed it's not played in other decks. Was never a fan of erratas but a once a turn sort of errata on Top would fix many of its problems I think.

[Manipulato]

*crosses fingers*

SDT ban... SDT ban... SDT ban...

Top or Balance YES

[rubblekill]

No changes, unfortunately.