Thank you, i know this, maybe my question was not enough clear so i reformulate it in a better way:Originally Posted by kentheide
i am no w playing this decklist:
Lands 20
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
Creatures 5
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
Other Spells 35
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Predict
1 Entreat the Angels
Sideboard 15
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Mountain
so this decklist is clearly heavy inspired to Johannes Gutbrod's one from the BOM which can be found here http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20966&iddeck=160345 and to Tristan Polzl's one http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21042&iddeck=160923 which are clearly based on the work of Minniehajj AnziD and co. and on the decklists from Nicolas Tholance 2nd place at the Gp with the cooperation of Maxime Gilles which can be found here http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2016-06-12
All 3 of them were running 4 pyroblast effects and a mountain in the sideboard so after toying a little with the decklist i came to this sideboarding plans based on the plans i saw from AnziD who were posted on the previous page:
4C Delver
Out
1 Tundra
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
In
1 Mountain
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
Aggro Loam
Out
3 Counterbalance
2 Terminus
1 FoW
In
2 Wear/Tear
2 Surgical
1 Snapcaster mage
1 Mountain
Ant
Out
2 Jace
3 Terminus
2 StP
2 Mentor
In
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Burn
Out
2 Jace
2 Terminus
2 Predict
In
2 Flusterstorm
2 Wear/Tear
2 Vendilion Clique
Canadian Threshold (RUG Delver)
Out
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
In
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear/Tear
Death & Taxes
Out
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wear/Tear
1 Mountain
1 Containment Priest
Deathblade
Out
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
1 Tundra
2 Terminus
In
4 Reb
2 Wear/Tear
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mountain
Dredge
Out
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
2 Predict
2 Jace
In
1 Snapcaster
2 Flusterstorm
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Reb
Eldrazi
Out
3 Counterbalance
1 Predict
1 Tundra
In
1 Snapcaster
2 Wear/Tear
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mountain
Elves!
Out
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Volcanic Island
In
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Wear/ Tear
1 Snapcaster Mage
Goblins
Out
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Containment Priest
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear/Tear
Grixis Delver
Out
4 Force of Will
2 Jace
2 Counterspell
In
1 Snapcaster
1 Wear/Tear
2 Reb
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
Infect
Out
4 Force of Will
2 Mentor
2 Jace
1 Counterbalance
In
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Wear/Tear
2 Pyroblast
2 Vendilion Clique
Jeskai Stoneblade
Out
4 Force of Will
2 Terminus
1 Plains
1 Swords to Plowshares
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Reb
2 Wear/Tear
2 Vendilion Clique
Jund
Out
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
In
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear/Tear
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mountain
Lands
Out
4 Terminus
2 Counterspell
1 Force of Will
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear/Tear
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mountain
Maverick
Out
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
1 Tundra
In
2 Wear/Tear
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mountain
Miracles
Out
4 Terminus
4 StP
2 Plains
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Reb
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear/Tear
1 Mountain
Merfolks
Out
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
1 Force of Will
2 Jace
In
4 Reb
1 Snapcaster mage
1 Containment Priest
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Wear/Tear
Mud
Out
3 Counterbalance
2 Terminus
1 Tundra
In
1 Mountain
2 Wear/Tear
1 Snapcaster
2 Vendilion Clique
Painter
Out
2 Jace
2 Predict
2 Terminus
In
2 Wear/Tear
1 Snapcaster
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
Pox
Out
4 Terminus
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Monastery Mentor
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wear/Tear
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mountain
Reanimator
Out
4 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
In
4 Reb
1 Containment Priest
2 Flusterstorm
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
Shardless Bug
Out
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
1 Tundra
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Reb
1 Mountain
2 Vendilion Clique
Sneak & Show
Out
4 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Engineered Explosives
In
1 Snapcaster mage
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Reb
2 Flusterstorm
1 Containment Priest
2 Vendilion Clique
Team America( BUG Delver)
Out
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
1 Tundra
In
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Mountain
2 Vendilion Clique
Nothing on this is set in stone, some plans have some slot issues (Dredge, Eldrazi, Jund, Lands, Merfolks and Painter have at least 1 card too much to board in), the Miracles plan approach is Philipp Schonegger's one beacuse it suits better my play style, but the real question is: what would you do in matchups like Team America, Shardless, Maverick, Jund, Eldrazi, Deathblade, Pox , Death and Taxes, Aggro Loam, 4 Color Delver and Canadian Threshold especially regarding the Mountain/rebs aspect of the plan?
I essentially tried to use the mountain as 21st land vs. decks with heavy mana denial plans, and trade it with tundra postboard everytime we board 2+red cards vs. Wasteland decks, is this correct?
Is it good idea to remove all Fow in match vs Infect?
Yes.
I'll elaborate a bit =P. This approach isn't conventional, but the idea is for the game to go longer and become a sort of "blue jund" deck, packing TONS of removal and not wanting to play the 2-for-1 game at all. It leaves us more susceptible to the all in combo, but overall, since infect also slows down their deck a bit post board, it plays into the game plan that we believe is superior. We trade trade trade and then refuel with Predict.
This is excellent feedback, thank you.
If you're going all-in on the Mentor plan and are willing to tap out, have you considered Perilous Research in place of Predict? Similar to Cabal Therapy + Young Pyromancer, Perilous Research and Mentor also interact favorably with the monk tokens.
The upside is that you always draw 2 cards and do so without also needing any library manipulation. The downside is that you can't target your opponent. However, without Jace to filter the opponent's draws, this is less of a downside.
I've considered running in the main as a way to do cheeky things like blank spot removal, or get rid of a land where I might've drawn too many. I haven't tested it, however, I just realized its synergy with Mentor.
It's a cool concept but as a deck, we can't really ever afford to get behind and Predict already works with our best card. You trade reliance for knowing your top card, for a combo with mentor? I don't think that's worth it, especially since if you get to untap with mentor, you should already be super far ahead. Predict also clears the top 3 cards of your library to reset your top when you don't have a shuffle effect, so it's worth it there too. You should try to play a card that's maximized in use when you already have a mentor on board, you want a card that costs next to nothing while also forwarding your game plan. That's why other suggestions like Accumulated Knowledge, Thirst for Knowledge, etc, just don't work as well or as efficiently.
I was able to get out to the local legacy tournament since my family is out of town this week. I went 2-1 with Mentor Miracles. I enjoyed playing the deck but I would probably adjust the side a little for next time. The MVP I think was Engineered Explosives.
List:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Predict
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Counterspell
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
SB
1 Mountain
2 Pyroblast
2 REB
2 Wear // Tear
2 Blood Moon
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Containment Priest
One match that I want to discuss was my 1 loss of the evening which was against ANT round 2. I probably made multiple misplays in other games but this match sticks out in my mind the most.
Game 1 and we both know what the other is on due to the fact that it’s a small tournament and we’ve played each other before. I lose the roll and keep a hand with snapcaster, swords, 2 brainstorm and ponder. My thinking was that I could use the cantrips to find some counters but this turns out to be a bad decision. My turn 1 ponder doesn’t help me find anything useful. He proceeds to go off with multiple rituals into an empty the warrens for 6 goblins. I then start brainstorming to find a boardwipe to get back in the game. The only thing I find is a mentor which I play in order build up blockers but he then proceeds to cast multiple LEDS and infernal tutors for past in flames. You can probably guess what happens from there.
OUT: -4 Terminus, -3 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Mentor IN: +2 Flusterstorm, +4 Pyro/REB, +1 Clique, +1 Surgical
Game 2 I have a hand with force, brainstorm and surgical. I drop lands and he cantrips for a few turns. He then tries to go off with 2 cabal rituals, into 2 LEDS, into infernal tutor. He cracks the LEDs in response to the tutor and pitches a past in flames into his yard. With the tutor on the stack, I surgical out the past in flames and look at his deck; in it he has no other copies of past in flames, 1 copy of empty the warrens, 1 copy of tendrils, 1 copy of Dark Petition and 3 more copies of infernal tutor. I force the tutor pitching brainstorm (the only other blue card I have) and with no cards in hand he passes. On my turn I draw a snapcaster mage. I pass the turn and during his draw step cast snapcaster and surgical out his infernal tutor. Checking his hand he has drawn a dark ritual. I start attacking with a snapcaster while he plays draw go. I do not happen to find any counters and he eventually builds up to multiple rituals into natural tendrils.
Should I have mulled to a force of will Game 1? Was there a better play to make with my surgical Game 2?
mise 'miz v alter. of might as well (1997) 1: to win when you don't deserve to 2: to top-deck the "tings" you need 3: to be rewarded by an opponent's bad luck 4: to coin a phrase that spreads through the tournament scene like wildfire 5: to fling a monkey 6: to split firewood using a sharp instrument 7: To burn
3-1 at my local tonight. Beat Mono B Reanimator, Shardless BUG, and the mirror. Lost to Stifle BUG Delver.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
I went 3-1 at local regular tournament with Ojutai mentor miracles
deck list
mainboard:
3 monastery mentor
3 snapcaster mage
2 jace, the mind sculptor
4 sensei's divining top
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 predict
4 force of will
4 counterbalance
2 counterspell
4 swords to plowshares
4 terminus
1 council's judgment
4 flooded strand
3 scalding tarn
2 arid mesa
1 karakas
2 tundra
7 island
2 plains
total: 61 cards
sideboard:
2 flusterstorm
1 hydroblast
2 surgical extraction
2 disenchant
2 meddling mage
2 vendilion clique
1 venser, shaper savant
1 supreme verdict
2 back to basics
Beat TES, monogreen w/ CotV and Tin-fins, lost to UR delver.
Q: Do i need to have FoW in the match against Delver (i have no REB due to UW concept)?
IMHO, u need to keep the hand with FoW or CB at Game 1.
In Game 2 you dont need to extract the PiF, better sequence is counter tutor, then extract the tutor, then SCM to surgical for extracting cabal ritual or dark ritual.
The assumption that an ANT player is unlikely to be able to go off Turn 1 is reasonable. Because ANT, overall, relies on consistency/resilience (i.e. blue) to sculpt a winning hand, any partial measure would be inherently weak--as was the Empty the Warrens play. At this point, you have a LOT of outs: 4 Terminus and 2 EE. This angle seems TES-like in its intention to make you deal with the board to earn enough tempo to rebuild for a lethal storm turn.
I think keeping the defensive Mentor was a mistake because its utility as a blocker is limited; the Empty the Warrens plan was a stall from the ANT player to rebuild into a winning turn--either with Tendrils or the flashback Empty the Warrens. You still have all the same outs with a second Empty the Warrens, but in both cases you need to get a Counterbalance and/or counters. You have to assume that producing a non-clock number of goblins is a strategic decision; a Mentor will never produce enough tokens to totally stall a lethal Empty the Warrens.
Regarding the game with Surgical: do you recall (approximately) what was in your opponent's graveyard and how much mana he had floating when the Tutor was on the stack and you cast Surgical?
Let me assume that: that he had threshold, 3 lands, and at least one Ponder and a Gitaxian Probe in the yard. After casting the Infernal Tutor, he would have 9and 3
floating. (10
Based on this scenario but WITHOUT a hard counter in-hand, I think you would be correct to surgical the Past in Flames; he would have enough mana to cast anything he would go and get, and his only problem would be the Storm count. However, this depends on what you saw that he could flash back from his graveyard and what he could have used to build the storm count, e.g. he hardcasts the Ponder, finds a Lotus Petal, and then he has high enough Storm.
I believe the correct play was to surgical the Cabal Rituals. For example, lets take away the Probe: he has to recast both Cabal Rituals. ANT relies on the volume of surplus mana from the Cabal Ritual because it is a critical mass storm deck. Indeed, if there wasn't enough for him in the graveyard, then it's even possible to let the Tutor resolve, and then surgical the Cabal Rituals with the Past in Flames on the stack, and he does/doesn't have enough to Storm. (Again, this depends on what's in his yard).
Having Forced the Tutor, then later in the post-turn rebuild, he was able to draw into some Dark Rituals. However, unless you were at ~14 or lower health, it's very difficult to use just Dark Rituals to get a natural Tendrils. DR, on its own, usually doesn't net enough mana to cast both a tutor and a win spell, and all four DR without a tutor doesn't yield enough storm with a Tendrils in-hand. In such a scenario, his only out would be to draw enough specific cards, like Lotus Petals and ALL of the Dark Rituals, to get the Storm count high enough to be lethal. At such a point, it's likely you would have been able to earn enough tempo to win with Snapcaster beats.
Surgicaling the Cabal Rituals means that you don't have to spend the Snapcaster on the flashback Surgical. There's value to being able to flash back a Brainstorm (or other digging spell), because I think it's still correct to try and find either a hard counter or a Counterbalance (in case your opponent gets the necessary cards).
This is a salient point, and one I'd realized later on in the evening before I'd read your reply. My line of thought was: if you don't have a card to do library manipulation/digging, then Perilous Research can reaccumulate card advantage if there is a Mentor onboard, because it's always online for 2 cards.
The larger point relates to the philosophy of Miracles: If you don't have some for of library manipulation, then we're already far behind, and that's regardless of Mentor. It's the philosophy that Mentor can be a defensive card that gets deployed early, but it's primarily for when we're already winning. If our deck were about Mentor as the centerpiece, then Perilous research would slot right in.
Digging Cards like Brainstorm, Ponder, and--above all--Sensei's Divining Top are the most fundamentally important. They enable us to find answers (either to the board or to the stack).
Value accumulation cards like Predict, Perilous Research, et al. are useful to varying degrees, but not--strictly speaking--essential to the gameplan.
I have noticed that some decklists recently are moving away from Monastery Mentor and going back to Entreat the Angels. Is there any particular reason for this?
t3hmyth's made some good points at the end there.
In general, when you run 2 Mentors main in your 75 (not the 3~4 Mentors version), this setup is not impressive against Shardless BUG or any of the Vial decks. Also, people've started to be more serious about the SDT hate, you'll run into Null rod and other hates that would just shutdown the interaction between SDT and Mentor.
I like to show opponent my Entreat game 1, and then SB-in the Mentor(s) to throw my fair deck opponent off.
Yup. Of course, this doesn't mean Mentor comes in all the time (use your own judgment based on what you learned about your opponent's deck/playstyle G1) but you can safely expect some amount of damage-based spot removal to be taken out if you win G1 with an ETA, meaning that Mentor is less likely to be killed when he hits.
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
traditionally what do you sb in vs. pox?
flusterstorm and surgical extraction
So I am not sure if Thalia, Heretic Cathar has been discussed yet, but I was wondering what the opinions on it were. It seems absolutely busted. It slows the game down for the opponent only, and it makes all of their creatures come in tapped as well as their lands, AND it has First Strike with 3 power. It seems super strong to me, and I was wondering if it could be played in Legacy at all, and more specifically Miracles.
Deck I'm working towards: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-05-16-miracles/
The effects are strong, but they're not ones Miracles cares about or has any way of taking advantage of. She may have a place in Death and Taxes, but not here.
If you look at the beginning of this page I have posted a my sbing plan vs. It
I would like to bring attention to a couple of sideboard cards that, IMO, are pretty strong but I never see anyone else run them.
1) Path to Exile - this is a strictly better StP against Delver and Eldrazi, and I like having extra one-mana removal in these matchups. It's nice to have against Infect as well, and Lands because you can answer Marit Lage without giving the lands player a million life for Boseiju activation.
2) Ruination - it seems like people were experimenting with it a couple of months ago, but it feel out of favor. People seem to prefer Blood Moon/BtB over it, but I like Ruination better particularly against Shardless because they can't Decay it. My plan against Shardless is often to try and make Decay a dead card by removing CB's, and Moon sort of goes against that plan. Maybe that's not the correct approach, though.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
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