Bobmans, that was actually beautiful and made me smile, thanks :DOriginally Posted by Bobmans
Junk and Stoned Rhinos.
Not sure what your deck-list looks like but. . . . .
If your on the play game 2, blind Therapy for Chalice
Abrupt Decay, Abzan's #1 answer to chalice and 2-3 copies should be enough
Qasali Pridemage is a card worth considering for main deck or side board, if Chalice is that much of a problem in your meta
Although it doesn't maximize the combo, I've found myself in those situations just casting Cabal Therapy in face of Chalice on 1 regardless, then on the next turn Green Sun's Zenith for one and tutor for Veteran Explorer (Which gets around Chalice) and just flashing back anyway just to ramp up, giving yourself a good mana base that should get you to a spell that can get rid of chalice of the next turn (I.E. Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, Vindicate, Engineered Explosives)
Gaddock Teeg is not a card that necessarily works well against Eldrazi (If it is in your main-deck, it will most likely be boarded out), but does prevent late game Chalice (late game chalice shouldn't be a worry though if your mana is established) as well as Eldrazi decks that have All is Dust in the main.
And you could just always test the player themselves by simply casting your one drop. It is the responsibility of the chalice player to always announce that the spell will be countered, if a chalice player simply nods and doesn't in someway announce that the spell is countered, the spell is technically resolved and then you do your best to act like you didn't get away with something. It's a bit of controversial trick but if you want to play to win, it's a route worth considering.
Hope this advice was generic enough for you
If you survive the early game you can eventually outclass them. I run Rhino Fit so you can just start chipping away at them until their lands will kill them. Tireless Tracker is an all-star here, along with Thragtusk. Just focus on staying alive for the first 5-7 turns, not killing them. Gain life whenever you can and you will win.
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That should be your gameplan in general. Disrupt, stabilize, kill. Answer their first threats, establish a board position and grind them out. We're a control deck, we don't start off as the beatdown.
Did a test run today with my build, opponent picked mono red sneak attack because it did well at the last open. Ended up playing 7 games and I went 6-1, with the 1 being a close loss and the other 6 being very lopsided.
Never drew Ranger but Endless One was fantastic and better than Hangarback would have been, so that's a point in it's favor, another point is that it can dodge the Chalice lockouts. Running mostly Humans the Cavern of Souls was fantastic and it let me somewhat operate through multiple Chalices.
Loved having Sylvan. Just all around good stuff there. Sylvan/Arbor was a pretty neat interaction with both Meren and Volraths.
Once again, the card advantage of this build is unreal. I was able to generate 5 card
s off a Tracker in one game, 4 off a Bob in another, 2 off Courser every time he showed up, the usual Shriekmaw/Witness advantage. On average by the time the games were over I was up 8 or 9 cards on my opponent each game, maybe even more. What I know is that I was able to use all my mana every turn and still have to make decisions on what to do 15 turns into the game, because I just had so many ways to spend mana.
The decks good but I did miss my 4th Top so much that I brought it in during every postboard game. Used the Mentor/Top combo once. It's possibly even stronger here than it is in Miracles because it's yet another must answer threat.
I highly recommend the build if you want to feel like you're playing a blue deck in this format, but don't actually want to play blue.
Last edited by Brael; 07-25-2016 at 03:28 PM.
I played a few test games with the 4-colour build last night against 4C Delver. Went pretty well overall.
- Stabilizes well, particularly against Goyfs, since Strix is so good.
- Might not want Glen Elendra Archmage, since we can't tutor for it. Might be better off as a Meren.
- Jace is probably worth running the second Island for.
Well, there was a scapewish deck in the top 32 (only 4-3) in Legacy Festival on Sunday, but it is worth a look.
Creature (16)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wood Elves
Sorcery (14)
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
Instant (2)
2 Abrupt Decay
Artifact (2)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment (3)
3 Pernicious Deed
Land (23)
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard (15)
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Slaughter Games
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
I'm still tuning and playing around with my Abzan Explorer Pod list. I have mixed results but it's a work in progress.
Meren has gone out and come back in along with some SB tweaks. I know that the Garruk is a little cute and is probably better suited as a Sorin, Grim Nemesis, I'm just not to the point of giving up yet.
Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Aven Mindsensor (Considering replacing with Courser of Kruphix)
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Seige Rhino
1 Restoration Angel
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
Non-Creature
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Birthing Pod
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Batterskull
Lands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest (I have considered increasing my basics count and lowering the fetches)
2 Swamp
2 Plains
Sideboard
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Containment Priest
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
Edit*
Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about my proposed changes? I also had Garruk, the Veil Cursed online last week vs Shardless Sultai and found myself wishing that I had a Sidisi Undead Visier (the exploit tutor) that I could find with Garruk. Is that too deep or do you think that another tutor in Sidisi would be useful in this toolbox?
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Last edited by AtticusBlaqk; 07-26-2016 at 08:13 AM.
I think you don't have enough interaction with your opponent and cards like Tireless Tracker are not what you want in a Pod list because it doesn't give you enough. For that matter you seem short on a lot of creatures that generate Pod value.Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about my proposed changes? I also had Garruk, the Veil Cursed online last week vs Shardless Sultai and found myself wishing that I had a Sidisi Undead Visier (the exploit tutor) that I could find with Garruk. Is that too deep or do you think that another tutor in Sidisi would be useful in this toolbox?
Okay, so I think that I understand that you are saying that it is lacking in general, Tireless Tracker doesn't fit in Pod, and that I lack interaction. Are you suggesting that I cut the Tracker for more interaction. What type of interaction to you mean? General removal, hand disruption, ... I'm sorry for being dense but I see you critique but don't quite understand what you are suggesting to improve the deck.
You need removal spells. Legacy is a high power format, you can't just let your opponent do as they please while you hope to do the same.
You also need a plan for the games you don't get Pod, which will be many because it's attractive FoW bait.
Okay, I think that I understand. You're suggesting that I add something like Maelstrom Pulse, StP, PtE, etc to the main instead of trying to rely on the Deeds alone.
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Yes. There's nothing wrong with Deed, but it's not a catch all and you just need a certain quantity of removal. Some removal can be creature based such as Murderous Redcap and Qasali Pridemage but you need ways to remove things. I would shoot for at minimum 12 ways to kill various things, and atleast 10 ways to kill creatures.
On top of that, I'm not a fan of your creature selection. Among other things I think you really want Voice of Resurgence in there, and I think you really want ways to jump around the curve. Ranger of Eos into multiple Deathrite Shamans is extremely powerful (in Modern it was the strongest line the deck had until DRS's banning) and another powerful line is Rhino into more Rhinos. I would lower the curve some, Pod doesn't need to go up to 5 and 6. Stopping at 4 with maybe 1 5 (Shriekmaw is great, it's another creature based removal) is all you really need.
Cuts I would recommend are:
Teeg - Stops your GSZ and your Pod, not really what you want here.
SFM - Voice does a better job at doing what SFM does
Tracker - This is a 2 for 1, but what Pod really wants is creatures that provide multiple lives for 1 card.
Reclamation Sage - Pridemage does this better
Liliana - Does nothing when you Pod into it or out of it. You have to Pod into it, and then have another creature die for it to do something. And even when that happens you can't really Pod out.
Mindcensor - Good card, not good in this deck
Sigarda/Thragtusk/Dromoka - Cap yourself to 1 5+ drop. I would go Shriekmaw myself since you're cutting on GSZ's. Another option could be Reveillark.
Intent - I'm just not a fan of the card, others will tell you different.
Dryad Arbor - You're not really running any of the cards that play tricks with this, I would just run another land instead.
I could have saved you a lot of time. Just use this in the future:
#playadifferentdeck
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Do you have a list you don't mind sharing?
Been really interested in a scapeshift version. Would just playing a temur version be out of the question, or do you feel it has to be 4 colors or jund?
If you play RUG you lose out on Cabal Therapy. You're pretty much locked into green and black as colors. Read the primer at the start of the thread, it goes into the Scapeshift lists quite a bit. Never played them myself but I think the 3 color builds (green/black/red) have the most success.
I also could have saved time by telling you to add a whole bunch of stuff and then not suggesting where the cuts to add those things come from. I could have saved the most time by not answering your questions, you're the one who posted asking for others opinions.
Lol, no problem, I just wasn't expecting a total rewrite. It doesn't feel like my deck anymore and that is likely a good thing. You make some good points and I acknowledge them. I think that if we were to stick to playing pod this would be a great direction to get the most value out of it.
I appreciate the input. Next time I'll use a more openly friendly reply. Maybe something like, 'Man, I knew my baby was ugly but you didn't have to go that far'
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Went 4-0 last night at another event.
(Let me know if nobody cares about these reports and I'll stop)
Tried splashing red for a bit more combo hate, worked fairly well for me. The red cards in the board went in over 3 thoughtseize. I kinda feel like I want one back. Taiga came on over Scrubland (no double white in the deck). So still balancing that area.
Quite happy in my removal package. Again I don't like too much because it takes away from the main plan. Popping a deed a game is usually more than enough, and with tops you end up seeing something.
Deck: Nic Fit.dec
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:20
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
Spells:17
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands:23
2 Bayou
4 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:15
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Duress
2 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Slaughter Games
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Sneak and show
G1 turn 3 show emrakul-k
G2 a very delicate combination of therapy and surgical that all failed allowed me bait out the forces and brainstorms to zenith for a teag. Jit him up and beat in.
G3 a bit of disruption and turn 5 he shows in emrakul, I show in titania. He swings, I sac lands, make dudes, counter swing.
2-1
Burn
Rhinos. He also did more damage to himself with eidolons than he did me.
2-0
Aggro loam
G1 explorer>tower>titan beats for the win
G2 landed titania, he took out it and token with lily/abrupt. Meren gets her back and go again for win.
2-0
Rhino fit.
Playing against a friend, we collaborate a lot and the decks are similar, but he runs a lot more removal than I do.
G1 I'm applying more pressure then he is, and 1 for 1 removal doesn't help vs etb and instant value cards. Win
G2 I don't see a zenith or a top all game, he closes with primeval titan and rhino loop with tower/stronghold-loss
G3 should have gone to time, but he made a greedy attack, I karakas his meren he left for blocks out of the way to win turn 4 of 5. If it kept going it was anybodies game. - win
2-1
In the end I wanted to bring in some thoughtseize for show and tell which I didn't have, so I'd like to up the side count to 2 Duress and a tz, other than that, very happy with the list.
Please comment, it's very much a work in progress
Niiiice. I've always wanted to do this against Sneak and Show.
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