Yeah, he's a nice guy. Drew to let me lock Top 8 at the Super IQ, even though he could have crushed me and guaranteed being first seed (although he ended up there anyway).Originally Posted by Neko448
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i've toyed with omni in more wacky SnT builds and was intrigued. Never really tried it in a classical list. Both ugin and omni power out Mindrakul AND more importantly both cover critical weaknesses of the deck and thus contribute to the overall efficiency (pairing with our SnT - Titan aKa planB). With a configuration like this i found it hard to lose against "fair" (whatever that means in legacy) decks.
In a similar vein with Omniscience, which I'll at least try out, I'm wondering about Boseiju in a 4 SnT build. It could also cover Crop Rotations (and I guess Crop Rotating itself when it's mostly dead isn't so bad) and potentially Green Sun's Zenith.
It actually takes a bit of work to use boseju on a crop rotation
Some Fear the Dead
Sphere of Resistance!
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Guys if you want to play a clunky card like omniscience you should play omnitell..it's the better omnitell deck;)
Anyone see Daniel Ljunggren's awesome new art for Crop Rotation from the new Duel Decks?
So I've been trying to hunt a Tabernacle down for quite some time. But since the price hike its getting tough to find one sub $900. Anyone have one for trade/Sale? As of now I put Maze of Ith in it's place but not as powerful unless i can get a candelabra up and running.
Also any suggestions of some place I can hunt one down would be appreciated too.
eBay has a few Italian ones under $800. If you're looking for English though, I don't think you're going to find one at that price...at least not from a vendor.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
The high end facebook group has tabernacles for under 900, easily. I see italians right now going for 700-800, and heavily played english ones for in the 800-900 range.
went 3-1 with this omniscience build, with my only loss being to a legitimate mis-siding (I thought I had sided the cards I sided in out, and drew the mis-sided card when it would've won me the game):
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [ST] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [EMN] Emrakul, the Promised End
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
3 [DDN] Repeal
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [M13] Omniscience
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
matchups were eldrazi aggro, eldrazi aggro, hypergenesis (punt due to siding krosan grip vs blue cards), and dredge.
So I played my Gw 12 Post (aka Grapple Pile) at the Baltimore SCG classic this past Sunday. Started out well with a 2-0, somehow beating Zom-tamination in game 3.*
Then played against 3 flavors of delver, losing to all of them; each one being a bigger blowout than the previous.
Round 3 delver matchup against 4 Angler Grixis Delver. We have some really close games, but a turn 2 gurmag and perfectly timed wasteland closes me out of the game with 5 mana in play and 3 primetimes in hand. Ughh.
Round 5 delver matchup was a 4colored variant with stifle. Casting a thoughtknot seer I saw: stifle, diabolic edict, bolt and a ponder. I took stifle since I had a veteran explorer on board. Ughhh^2
Round 6 delver matchup was stock UR. Game 2 involved a blood moon into sulfuric vortex. Ughhh^3.
I rarely play against delver in the local metagame, but I'm 0-5 out of the last 5 larger event matches against delvers. Is this just an awful matchup for near mono-green post, am I not doing something right or just getting unlucky?
* I've never seen this before, it basically contaimination + gravecrawler / cryptbreaker. If you thought back to basics / bloodmoon was bad, you haven't experienced not playing magic until you experienced this!
It's tough on mono green imo. If white and terminus MB it helps a lot for aggro decks. Why majority play blue and why I stack all 4 SnT and refuse to go any lower. It's the best play around them. They lower are mana curve so much. Also, EE main board helps a lot to slow them down. Since 4 SnT and 2 EE MB I'm over 85% winning against delver. You stated 5 mana...that's a SnT that doesn't care about spell pieces or daze. Main reason I run blue plus better against combo.
With mono green your best bet is moments peace and EE to slow them down outside of tabernacle. maps, crop rotation and hopefully you have 3 candles to try to over aggro. Not sure your build. Even with blue. I try to get a tabernacle out very fast. Most common delver decks run 18 lands 4 of which are wastelands. Slows them immensely and forces them to waste it when looking for one and ur posts usually survive. Only G/W I've had any good luck with ran terminus MB.
Check the "High End Magic stuff for sale!" group on Facebook, I've seen 3 in the last week in the 700-1100 range, I just don't have the funds to pick one up myself
I am lucky to have many variations of delver/tempo locally. The Mono green versions have huge issues vs delver mostly on the back of no repeal/show and tell, but also mono green versions are more vulnerable to their draws (Grapple helps this immensely, but imo not enough. I started out mono green with Eldritch Moon's release, but have since turned back to U/G and am loving its resilience.)
I have played vs contamination + gravecrawler before. The card is mean. I suggest surgical.
Last edited by Rock Lee; 08-04-2016 at 03:10 AM.
I've done well with Cg Post vs Delver (which is at least closer to you than UG). What I've found generally:
Grixis/4C: Warping Wail is one of the best cards here. Taking out Pyromancer is its primary objective, but stopping a critical Cabal Therapy is good too. Unless I'm going on a fast hand, Tabernacle is one of the first things I usually tutor for; Maze does a good job of keeping everything else under control if you can deal with Pyro. This is a matchup where I've been loving Silent Arbiter out of the board.
UR: This is, IMO, the worst Delver matchup because of Price. I think it plays out fairly similar to Grixis, but I put a higher premium on Glimmerposts to pad my life total. If I have enough of a buffer, I'll often hide behind Chasm preemptively while I set up an Eldrazi. With the card draw from Kozilek or extra turn from Emrakul, you can often get in an extra Glimmerpost drop that they can't Price in response to, then just Crop away the Chasm to attack.
BUG: Maze for Goyf/Delver and Warping Wail for Deathrite/Hymn. They have Abrupt Decay for Needle, so I bring in Surgical to hit their first Wasteland. As long as they don't have a nut draw to rip your hand apart by turn 2-3, I think this is the easiest of the Delver matchups.
RUG: This is one of the few matchups period that I board out Warping Wail. Resolving Pithing Needle on Wasteland is a priority. I play against this deck frequently, which is one of the reasons I just play more basics instead of fetches, although that's probably not an option if you're splashing white.
All: Board wipes are your best friend against any Delver variant. Between All Is Dust, Ugin, O Stone, Ratchet Bomb, and Tabernacle, we have a huge arsenal of tools at our disposal. I don't go with Moment's Peace because I'd usually rather take a bit more damage and deal with their threats permanently.
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Also me with my MonoGreen List have done very good against Delver Decks.
UR Delver with Price of Progress and Wasteland are the only Delver Deck that is hard to beat.
Otherwhise i have to say that UG is not that good against the most Delver Decks..Just playing repeal doesn't do much..
The Clunky Cards like SnT sent are also to slow sometimes or just get daze'd. Your Manabaze is even weaker cause you need more coloured mana.
Very important in the Delver Match up is always searching the right land;) I mean the last time i played against a BUG Delver List with stifle, i lost really close 1:2 in the first game he played 4 stifle and 4 wasteland and i could still win..The small missplay at the beginning (Crapping the Map instead of the Cloudpost, cause he's normally always on reanimator) was important.
I play U/G exclusively and Delver matchups are never easy, regardless of the flavor of Delver. I've been tuning a build that should do better against the Delver variants, even if it means cutting back on hate for other strategies like combo.
One card that I intend to board is Carpet of Flowers. I think it is the closest thing to an all-around Delver answer, since every Delver deck has a mana denial or damage rushing element. Carpet helps at least counteract the mana denial, and our deck has plenty of mana sinks to make use of the extra mana. As long as you have a sufficient number of game-winners like Ugin as well as enough Cavern of Souls to resolve your titans, I think you will be in a good enough spot to take advantage. I used Carpet before Ugin was around and it was still effective for me then. It looks like it would have helped you a lot in all of your situations listed above.
As Rambo said, Engineered Explosives helps a ton. Many opponents will overextend Delvers and Deathrites against you knowing that you're slow, so hitting multiple creatures off of one EE feels like a victory in itself. Against the Pyromancer builds, drop it for 0 and wait to reset their Elemental tokens. In the Delver matchups, the card never feels bad in multiples. I always mainboard two in any version of Post these days, and will board at least one extra for said anti-Delver build.
If you own The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, of course bring it in. I see many 12Post builds include this maindeck, probably for the same problem matchups. Since you are running mono-green, I imagine setting up your early plays are less risky than for U/G, which has to use dual lands more often. But in any build, I would utilize Carpet, Explosives and Tabernacle the most to try and combat Delver.
just agree with into_play i'm already using 2 carpets from winter orb time, flusterstorm are great to help resolve your crop rotations or show&tell but it's not so usual, gut shoots what i'm still maybe only one who like it for pyro/delvers matchups and EE are just best against all ,trickbind also helps . Last two tournaments:
ur delver 1:2(mull,no lands)
ur delver 2:0
ur delver 1:2 (my missplay)
nic fit 2:0 (justice)
---------------
4c mentor 2:0
ant 2:1 (could be 2:0)
ur delver 2:1
tezzeret control 0:2 shame first game i was too
self-confidenced and i let him to kill me because i thought that ub tezzeret ultimate taking one life(instead two) for each artifact what he own and second turn mull to 6 and no colored lands i was incredibly unlucky under s. top full hand of shows, krosan g. trickbinds so that happend :(
i had some free time from cards and it looked like that :)
I think it comes down to. Sometimes delver does it's thing and is near impossible to beat.
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