[SCD] Leovold, Emissary of Trest

[UseLess]

I Think that Leovold, Emissary of Trest is a very interesting card from the new set and believe it can be very powerful in the right shell. And it's in my favorite color combination. Awesome . I've been toying with ideas about this 'right shell' but nothing concrete has come out of it. So I want you! For ideas, input and criticism. I'll first summarize what I've come up with so far. The card has been linked to shardless BUG as a 2-off or so. While the card may certainly work here and do its thing occasionally, I would really like a deck dedicated to Leovold. I want to play this card consistently on turns 2-4 and abuse its effects as much as possible.

With this in mind I came to the conclusion that I either want to play 3-4 in my deck or play a tutor like GSZ. Four DRS is a given to play this card turn two. Cards that don't synergize well with this plan are daze and wasteland because you need three colors and a minimum of two lands to cast it in the early turns. Cards I believe synergize well with it are Baleful Strix (even more card advantage) and misdirection to protect Leopold, also from Abrupt Decay. I believe that if you misdirect an AD to another creature of yours you even get to draw another cards because Leovold triggers twice. Now to get to four mana to play GSZ for this card might not be easy and I think only a nic fit type of shell could support this. I love Nic Fit but I'm unsure if this is really the best way to go. On the other hand, playing 3-4 legendaries of the same type in your deck isn't too attractive, even though the pitch to Misdirection/FoW. I also love shardless agent, but how many three drops can a legacy deck realistically support? One of the other main things that a potential new deck needs is a solid win condition and I'm unsure about the best one. Fat creatures could work for the nic fit route, maybe Planeswalker like Jace and Garruk Relentless, Gurmag Angler or Tarmogoyf in more regular shells or even Bitterblossom came to mind. Input is welcome. I might update this post a bit later, but got to get ready for work now.

EDIT: Other cards that could work well are Pernicious Deed and maybe even a countertop package, though Miracles is most likely the better deck for that.

[Dice_Box]

I feel sure this guy will see play. One sided disruption with a kind of suede protection? I like it. I don't know what the shell is yet, but I am sure he will see play.

[klaus]

Hey UseLess,
good on you, making a thread for Leo. I wonder why nobody else has done it yet, as he looks sufficiently powerful on paper to set any creative mtg brain to tinker mode.
Here are some general thoughts in brief:
* the list of cards he blanks is long, but BS and Ponder come to mind first
* in order to justify MD inclusion, or even build a deck around him, there should be at least 4 spells dedicated to harvesting the one-sidedness
* step 0 should be compiling a list of cards that make opponents rage-quit once they resolve, while Leo sticks around [I suggest a collective brainstorm and a comprehensive list you compile under "Edit:" in your opening post]
* dropping spells that are solid on their own in favor of spells that are awesome with Leo, but so-so without him, is a risky business. My gut feeling tells me: "keep those at a bare minimum."


My first approach was to max out on Leovolds and pair it with Howling Mine. Now that we're talking a two-card combo, I also went with 4 BS and 4 Ponder to assemble it. Fun fact Howling Mine helps find Leo too. FoW, DRS, Decay were more or less no-brainers, and so was TS in a way. At that point I was at a junction as I now had to determine the actual wincon. I went with combat damage - partially because Leo boasts a 3/3 body himself, which is nothing to sneeze at. That being said it's clearly debatable, whether the creature-based approach is a given. Now there were two things to work out: #1 what creatures should be included?, #2 how do I up the blue count to sufficiently support FoW?.
#1 Tarmo came to mind first: Mine will fill your hand faster than you can say: "I need more mana accel!", and that guy's muscle's cheap. Next came Gurmac Angler, same argument, however I feel especially confident about his inclusion due to the fact that Mine also tends to fill our yard quickly (same for DRS fodder). Next came Thing in the Ice (yes, mo'fo' TITI). I admit that card has yet to be broken, but it has so much going for it in this shell that I really need to test it: ups the blue count to 18, Mine delivers a ton of spells to flip it quickly, that 0/4 butt helps fend of pesky critters until the combo comes online (or Tarmo can go about his business), it's cheap, and, if Mine went un-Leo'd and my opponent has dropped a little army, TITI sends them right back home.
Last but not least came creature removal and some numbers tweaking.
Let me know what you think!

4 Leovold
4 DRS
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Angler
2 Thing in the Ice
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Howling Mine

4 FoW
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dismember
((40))

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Creeping Tarpit
((20))

[colo]

I've always wanted to play Glissa, the Traitor in a legacy list. Maybe she fits in with Leovold; they both synergize somewhat (as Glissa is effectively untouchable in combat), and share colours and creature types.

[pettdan]

I'm also wondering where to make him fit. I think Nic Fit is reasonable since it's a GSZ-able hate bear, but that's not realizing his full potential. However since he's good vs both combo and fair decks he's very maindeckable. Having him removed once played is pretty ok since you get the card advantage, but to really make him shine I think you should be able to protect him. Or replay him.

I want to try him in a Bant+black shell with Fauna Shaman and Green Sun's Zenith for tutoring, Aether Vial for putting him into play without the opponent being able to respond (with cantrip) before it's too late, and Mother of Runes for protection and Deathrite Shaman for potential acceleration (if not using Vial, which is probably more powerful). That is a very obscure deck but it seems to have all the tools to put him to full use: you can tutor and put him into play at instant speed and uncounterably using Fauna Shaman + Vial. Still, more fun than good.

Regarding cards that pair up well with Leovold, Dack Fayden would be one of those. Counterspells also seem fine because you get to draw cards even if you counter the removal.

[LarsLeif]

I agree that you probably want to play cards that are good on their own alongside Leo, rather than synergistic cards that are weak on their own. I dislike Howling Mines and Misdirection because of that. I also don't think Shardless Agent is stellar as your curve becomes super high. I do like Strix and Goyf though.

I would probably try:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Baleful Strix
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

4 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Disfigure

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk Relentless

4 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Note: It is not a Leovold deck, it's a deck that plays a high number of Leovolds (3 seems like max in a non-dedicated deck like this).

[mrjumbo03]

Hey UseLess,
good on you, making a thread for Leo. I wonder why nobody else has done it yet, as he looks sufficiently powerful on paper to set any creative mtg brain to tinker mode.
Here are some general thoughts in brief:
* the list of cards he blanks is long, but BS and Ponder come to mind first
* in order to justify MD inclusion, or even build a deck around him, there should be at least 4 spells dedicated to harvesting the one-sidedness
* step 0 should be compiling a list of cards that make opponents rage-quit once they resolve, while Leo sticks around [I suggest a collective brainstorm and a comprehensive list you compile under "Edit:" in your opening post]
* dropping spells that are solid on their own in favor of spells that are awesome with Leo, but so-so without him, is a risky business. My gut feeling tells me: "keep those at a bare minimum."


My first approach was to max out on Leovolds and pair it with Howling Mine. Now that we're talking a two-card combo, I also went with 4 BS and 4 Ponder to assemble it. Fun fact Howling Mine helps find Leo too. FoW, DRS, Decay were more or less no-brainers, and so was TS in a way. At that point I was at a junction as I now had to determine the actual wincon. I went with combat damage - partially because Leo boasts a 3/3 body himself, which is nothing to sneeze at. That being said it's clearly debatable, whether the creature-based approach is a given. Now there were two things to work out: #1 what creatures should be included?, #2 how do I up the blue count to sufficiently support FoW?.
#1 Tarmo came to mind first: Mine will fill your hand faster than you can say: "I need more mana accel!", and that guy's muscle's cheap. Next came Gurmac Angler, same argument, however I feel especially confident about his inclusion due to the fact that Mine also tends to fill our yard quickly (same for DRS fodder). Next came Thing in the Ice (yes, mo'fo' TITI). I admit that card has yet to be broken, but it has so much going for it in this shell that I really need to test it: ups the blue count to 18, Mine delivers a ton of spells to flip it quickly, that 0/4 butt helps fend of pesky critters until the combo comes online (or Tarmo can go about his business), it's cheap, and, if Mine went un-Leo'd and my opponent has dropped a little army, TITI sends them right back home.
Last but not least came creature removal and some numbers tweaking.
Let me know what you think!

4 Leovold
4 DRS
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Angler
2 Thing in the Ice
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Howling Mine

4 FoW
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dismember
((40))

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Creeping Tarpit
((20))

Isn't Anvil of Bogardan just better than Howling Mine in this deck? You still get to dig, but then it's a lock when coupled with Leovold.

[Julian23]

I think you always wanna play at least 1 Mindbreak Trap or Flusterstorm in your sideboard when playing a deck with Leovold. Gives you 10+ draws to find them once your opponent targets you with Tendrils.

[LarsLeif]

I think you always wanna play at least 1 Mindbreak Trap or Flusterstorm in your sideboard when playing a deck with Leovold. Gives you 10+ draws to find them once your opponent targets you with Tendrils.

Agreed. Flusterstorm is probably preferable as it has applications against the other combo decks that doesn't target players when going off.

[Lormador]

Well, if we wanted to go further into control, what about BUG Standstill? We've got the counters to maximize his ability there.

[Julian23]

Well, if we wanted to go further into control, what about BUG Standstill? We've got the counters to maximize his ability there.

But not the creatures anymore.

[UseLess]

I'm also wondering where to make him fit. I think Nic Fit is reasonable since it's a GSZ-able hate bear, but that's not realizing his full potential. However since he's good vs both combo and fair decks he's very maindeckable. Having him removed once played is pretty ok since you get the card advantage, but to really make him shine I think you should be able to protect him. Or replay him.

I think that it is indeed very important that a deck centered around Leovold is able to keep playing him, or protect him. That's the reason I was thinking of Misdirection, as it is the only on-color (playable) card I could think of that can protect him from abrupt decay. Unearth is a solid card to get him back and it's quite good when combined with snapcaster mage for even more value. I love the Dack Fayden suggestion. I'm really afraid that adding a fourth color just results in so many auto-losses. It'd not be a delver style deck that can operate on 1-2 lands because we want to be casting 3-drops and maybe even GSZ for X=3. Keep the suggestions coming though, love all the input so far!

[H]

I think a (non-Nic Fit) BUG deck with GSZ is largely "unexplored" territory that could be pretty good. Damn good versus Miracles at the very least. Grindy as hell, just the way I like it.

Once I can get back to making it to FNM I am going to try to convert my BUG Control deck over to have a few Zenith and a couple Leovold.

[kirkusjones]

I know it costs four, but a resolved Teferi's Puzzle Box means your opponent doesn't draw for the rest of the game.

[H]

I know it costs four, but a resolved Teferi's Puzzle Box means your opponent doesn't draw for the rest of the game.

They'll still get their natural draw though and can play an Instant if they draw it.

[kirkusjones]

They'll still get their natural draw though and can play an Instant if they draw it.

Crap, you're right. I still think it might be worth considering as it limits interaction with your plan to an instant during their draw step and it dodges decay. Plus, if they do manage to target the Puzzle Box or Leovold with their instant, you get to draw a card, potentially digging up an answer.

[square_two]

I think a (non-Nic Fit) BUG deck with GSZ is largely "unexplored" territory that could be pretty good. Damn good versus Miracles at the very least. Grindy as hell, just the way I like it.

Once I can get back to making it to FNM I am going to try to convert my BUG Control deck over to have a few Zenith and a couple Leovold.

From my experience with NO Rug, having access to both Goyf and 4 GSZ can be ridiculous, and visibly frustrating to opponents. Some decks just can't handle the stream of cheap beasties.

There have also been RUG (and probably BUG is very possible as well) modern decks popping up that make use of Traverse the Ulvenwald. Red gives you Tarfire though which is kinda gimmicky but does help goyf and delirium.

[H]

Crap, you're right. I still think it might be worth considering as it limits interaction with your plan to an instant during their draw step and it dodges decay.

But they could just Decay Leovold. It's ok, I just don't think it's good enough for Legacy.

From my experience with NO Rug, having access to both Goyf and 4 GSZ can be ridiculous, and visibly frustrating to opponents. Some decks just can't handle the stream of cheap beasties.

There have also been RUG (and probably BUG is very possible as well) modern decks popping up that make use of Traverse the Ulvenwald. Red gives you Tarfire though which is kinda gimmicky but does help goyf and delirium.

Yeah, 'Goyfs for days is really good. I'ver won far more games of Magic than I ever should have just because I happened to draw 3-4 'Goyfs. GSZ also allows for some utility creatures, like Scavenging Ooze and others to enter the list with greater reliability too.

[Cambriel]

I know it costs four, but a resolved Teferi's Puzzle Box means your opponent doesn't draw for the rest of the game.

I would worry about playing bad cards that just happen to be EDH style shenanigans with Leovold. Same goes for Howling Mine or Anvil. Those are too likely to backfire. If I really wanted a symmetrical draw to break, I'd probably just run Mikokoro or Geier Reach Sanitarium as a utility land. The opportunity cost there is much lower, and you can "turn off" both by just not activating them.

Honestly, if you're going to try and get fancy with draw effects windmilling Day's Undoing seems like the last word there.

[H]

I would worry about playing bad cards that just happen to be EDH style shenanigans with Leovold. Same goes for Howling Mine or Anvil. Those are too likely to backfire. If I really wanted a symmetrical draw to break, I'd probably just run Mikokoro or Geier Reach Sanitarium as a utility land. The opportunity cost there is much lower, and you can "turn off" both by just not activating them.

Honestly, if you're going to try and get fancy with draw effects windmilling Day's Undoing seems like the last word there.

Sanitarium might be decent, since you are playing BUG you could get them to zero cards in hand (via Hymn, etc) and so you get to loot and they get "milled" for one even if you don't have Leovold.