[Primer] R/G Lands

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

I'd probably shave a tranquil thicket, you never actually want to play it as a land (whereas you do want to play dark depths).

[Sengir]

I really don't care for trackers as a main deck card. They slow down the main game plan, are likely to be dead unrecoverable dredges, and few decks are running dedicated grave hate g1 anyways... He's awesome when the opponent brings in grave hate as he protects loam and adds card advantage as you're forced to play around their sb.

Kozileks return would be of use vs DNT for sure, but I don't know if I would run it unless DNT became ascendant. Worldbreaker would allow for better usage.

[jhport12]

I really don't care for trackers as a main deck card. They slow down the main game plan, are likely to be dead unrecoverable dredges, and few decks are running dedicated grave hate g1 anyways... He's awesome when the opponent brings in grave hate as he protects loam and adds card advantage as you're forced to play around their sb.

Kozileks return would be of use vs DNT for sure, but I don't know if I would run it unless DNT became ascendant. Worldbreaker would allow for better usage.

I really have to agree: What match-ups does Tracker drastically improve in game 1? Because this is only about game 1.

I love Tracker... and this is in spite of the fact that it's never even won me a game yet by attacking. When it has hit the board against certain opponents, they react viscerally and play differently. Usually, they spend valuable resources to kill the Tracker, which allows me to win in other ways (or they just dealt with it and I didn't get any new answer). However, their response has told me all I needed to know.

As a sidenote, Sanctum Prelate is real and it's a pain in the ass. I can't tell if it is the kind of pain that requires changing the deck a la Molten Vortex in main or SB yet. It may just be that D&T becomes a 60/40 matchup against us instead of the usual 50/50. The fact that they can Recruiter of the Guard for it is also annoying.

Kozilek's Return is a card that I have never tested. Like Abrupt Decay and Molten Vortex before it, the possibility of dredging it is no small matter.

[Chatto]

How many times do you guys dredge? Because the same argument goes for Exploration, Gamble, Mox D, CR, or any SB-card: dredge is a real issue. TT can provide cards by drawing, not dredging. Seems a reasonable alternative: no more dredging away of resources. In any case, I think it's worth exploring.

As for the suggestions:

- Riftstone Portal is a good suggestion. I would probably move Bog to the SB, cutting a Kozilek's Return.
- I like drawing the combo (thus four DD), and also like to keep the land-count high enough for TT.
- Thicket is a green mana source on the board: it could be vital.

I'm not claiming TT should be played main. I think it is worth exploring. We all know RGCL is good, perhaps this is a win-more: we'll see.

[barcode]

If I don't have Exploration I'll won't Loam/Dredge until I'm out of lands to play. If I have one or more Exploration in play I'm more likely to loam every turn.

[jarvisyu]

This is more of a general philosophical thing about Magic / (Eternal) formats:

I don't believe that neo-D+T (or almost any eternal deck) ever breaks more than 10%. Trying to warp your main deck to fight it usually causes you to lose more overall because you're likely weakening every other matchup to do so.

[Ciubulu]

I play 2 vortex/3 pfires main that's a good compromise and gives me an option.




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[Domri Rade]

To those running TT in their sideboards, where are you boarding it in besides miracles?

[Alexeezay]

grindy matchups -> BGx, Control & Death and Taxes. Sometimes I even board some against combo because we got a few dead cards.

[Dice_Box]

I had a week where I brought them in against everything, just for the hell of it. Did work against Fish. I mean real work. They end up bigger than their shit if you have fire online and the draw is useful against the deck.

[jarvisyu]

I had a week where I brought them in against everything, just for the hell of it. Did work against Fish. I mean real work. They end up bigger than their shit if you have fire online and the draw is useful against the deck.

Frankly, it is the type of card that 'comes in a lot' for different cards in almost every matchup.

[Rationalist]

Frankly, it is the type of card that 'comes in a lot' for different cards in almost every matchup.

With that in mind, where do you stand (blind) on the idea people here are batting around about running some number main deck?

[jarvisyu]

With that in mind, where do you stand (blind) on the idea people here are batting around about running some number main deck?

I don't really like maindecking it, even if you side it in every matchup.

[Chatto]

This is more of a general philosophical thing about Magic / (Eternal) formats:

I don't believe that neo-D+T (or almost any eternal deck) ever breaks more than 10%. Trying to warp your main deck to fight it usually causes you to lose more overall because you're likely weakening every other matchup to do so.

This is the thing in the back of my mind as well, still I would like to test TT main. I know you are right, as I feel the same about maindecking TT, but sometimes I just have the urge to try weird stuff. Even if I don't have the time to proper test stuff, theorizing and discussing certain cards is an exercise I like to perform.

[Domri Rade]

I don't really like maindecking it, even if you side it in every matchup.

Agreed, it's better to have your opponents main deck removal spells be dead.

[Dice_Box]

My meta is growing in numbers thanks to new players. Most of them coming in with Nic Fit and DnT. In that regard I think the card is good in the main, but my results will not be mean, only an outlier.

[Crimhead]

Mostly it's more important post board because that's when our engine gets disturbed.

I'm running one copy main, but I might switch it to the side.

[heckler]

hello all,

as for TT main board; I think he is better in the SB to get the opponent to maybe board out removal (if they keep it in and board out other things for disruption, sometimes they don't draw any teeth).


I've been toying with throwing living wish into the MD and putting one stage and depths into the board as well as karakas. This would allow me to search for the combo piece i'm missing as well as protect me a little against extraction effects (minor reason but still there). It also gives me the option of nabbing a creature from the board if it would be beneficial, which has never really been on my radar until I started putting TT in.

cons are that it would lower the odds of my fastest hands to some degree and lower my percentage agaisnt the matchups where I need to go off now. It would also lower my land count, making diamond a tougher pill to swallow in the wrong circumstances.


MD
2 taiga
1 forest
4 forest fetchlands
3 stage
3 depths
4 port
4 wasteland
2 tranquil thicket
2 maze of ith
1 tabernacle
1 bojuka bog
1 glacial chasm
4 grove of the burnwillows

4 mox diamond
4 exploration
1 manabond
4 gamble
4 crop rotation
4 punishing fire
4 life from the loam
3 living wish

SB
4 sphere of resistance
4 krosan grip
2 tireless tracker
1 thrun, the last troll
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
1 karakas
1 boseiju, who shelters all

I left in one manabond to potentially gamble for if needed; but this seems less good than cutting it for karakas and freeing up a SB slot.

Normally I leave boseiju and thrun out of SB but with a way to fetch them, it seems like it could help G1 against miracles.

3 TT is my normal SB standard, but with adding lands to make wish work, I cut one. I would also like to fit a barbarian ring in the SB if I didn't wish I had space for 12 other cards that didn't make it in as well.

Wish would come out in matchups where speed is key.

The upside is that the early wasteland/port/loam/pfire disruption packages are all unaffected by all of this.


The first test run of this was to be tonight at the LGS weekly legacy event, but I was called out of town last minute on a business trip. I'll keep everyone posted once I get a chance to test it if anyone is interested.

[The_Dingo]

hello all,

as for TT main board; I think he is better in the SB to get the opponent to maybe board out removal (if they keep it in and board out other things for disruption, sometimes they don't draw any teeth).


I've been toying with throwing living wish into the MD and putting one stage and depths into the board as well as karakas. This would allow me to search for the combo piece i'm missing as well as protect me a little against extraction effects (minor reason but still there). It also gives me the option of nabbing a creature from the board if it would be beneficial, which has never really been on my radar until I started putting TT in.

cons are that it would lower the odds of my fastest hands to some degree and lower my percentage agaisnt the matchups where I need to go off now. It would also lower my land count, making diamond a tougher pill to swallow in the wrong circumstances.


MD
2 taiga
1 forest
4 forest fetchlands
3 stage
3 depths
4 port
4 wasteland
2 tranquil thicket
2 maze of ith
1 tabernacle
1 bojuka bog
1 glacial chasm
4 grove of the burnwillows

4 mox diamond
4 exploration
1 manabond
4 gamble
4 crop rotation
4 punishing fire
4 life from the loam
3 living wish

SB
4 sphere of resistance
4 krosan grip
2 tireless tracker
1 thrun, the last troll
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
1 karakas
1 boseiju, who shelters all

I left in one manabond to potentially gamble for if needed; but this seems less good than cutting it for karakas and freeing up a SB slot.

Normally I leave boseiju and thrun out of SB but with a way to fetch them, it seems like it could help G1 against miracles.

3 TT is my normal SB standard, but with adding lands to make wish work, I cut one. I would also like to fit a barbarian ring in the SB if I didn't wish I had space for 12 other cards that didn't make it in as well.

Wish would come out in matchups where speed is key.

The upside is that the early wasteland/port/loam/pfire disruption packages are all unaffected by all of this.


The first test run of this was to be tonight at the LGS weekly legacy event, but I was called out of town last minute on a business trip. I'll keep everyone posted once I get a chance to test it if anyone is interested.

Living wish is a cool idea. I like the aspect of being able to access the 4th depths and stage, but I don't think the creatures you selected really maximize your living wish value. IMO You want to look at things like Worldbreaker and primeval titan that basically win games on their own. Or maybe something like reclamation sage to answer annoying permanents or Gaddock Teeg that provides a game changing effect.

[Ciubulu]

Imo the deck works really well without diluting the main plan with wish, we have good game one against everything except combo that's not something you can fix with it


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