Got to Jund 'em out last night at the local. 3-0 beating RUG Delver, D&T, and Food Chain. 6-0 in games where I cast Kolaghan's Command. Card is blowout personified.
4 DRS
4 Bob
4 Goyf
3 BBE
1 Lavamancer
4 Liliana OTV
3 Bolt
3 Decay
3 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn
2 Sylvan Library
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Life from the Loam
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant
3 Bayou
3 Badlands
2 Foothills
2 Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Taiga
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Duress
2 Pyroblast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 EE
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember
1 Garruk Relentless
Bit of a Necro, but this is the only premade legacy deck that runs red and doesn't run artifacts (other than . . . UR delver I guess, but this is more mid-range than tempo) and I thought of this "combo" which may or may not be welcome in the deck:
plus
Platinum Emperion
The thought is that the deck can make room for what is essentially a 3R 8/8 that also acts as protection . . . idk. I thought it was a neat interaction, that doesn't really make sense in any other deck. may not make sense in this deck, but just throwing it out there.
Kind of sad that this deck has seemingly fallen out of favor because it's such a blast. I went 3-0 again last night, basically the same list with some sideboard tweaks, beating Deadguy Ale, Elves, and Eldrazi. Up to 9-0 in games where I cast Kolaghan's Command.
I don't think this is the right home for it because Platinum Emperion + Bob is very tense, haha. Maybe a Jund-colored shell of some sort though.Originally Posted by Cire
This card will be better in an enlightened tutor deck. Maybe imperial painter.
Punishing Fire is a great card, no doubt. Not to speak for maharis, but Jund's issue is always consistency. Having to run Grove of the Burnwillows really makes your mana-base a liability. It certainly isn't wrong to run it, or not, it's just different.
I think one question most people that run Jund should be asking is if they should fit in some number of Grim Flayers. If you run Punishing Fires, I think the answer is definitely yes, since it helps with the consistency of finding both parts and in general.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I simply don't own groves. I do think the mana is better than it would be but I have no point of comparison. However, I've beaten jund players in the past by keeping them off B with wasteland. I also think in some matchups like the ones you mentioned being able to pass t1 on the draw with 1 mana open and nuke their opener while still doing something t2 is good. Hitting a Mom, infect creature, or Eldrazi mimic for example.
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Also Kolaghan's Command is insane. Killing their guy and retrieving a BBE at their EOT feels so good. I think it goes a long way toward making up for the value of the PF engine while being a sick cascade and dealing with Chalice & equips
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My "un-Punishing Jund" list is four cards off of that maindeck. I run -1 Grim Lavamancer, -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Phyrexian Arena, -1 Maelstrom Pulse, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Thoughtseize, and +1 Hymn to Tourach. I treat the three Bloodbraid Elf slots as flex slots; I've experimented with BBE, 2 Garruk Relentless, Sylvan Library #3, 3 Grim Lavamancers, Huntmaster of the Fells, singleton Life from the Loams, Maelstrom Pulses, the works. I'm never really satisfied with those slots.
How has Phyrexian Arena been treating you?
I agree with how strong Kolaghan's Command is in the format. It is almost always a blowout for me.
I'm in the same boat with regards to Grove of the Burnwillow. Grove-less Jund does get a better manabase than the Punishing Fire version, but I'm not convinced that it's a better deck. However, without $200 to spend on Groves, I've been very happy with the "Un-Punishing" Jund lists.
InfoNinjas
Ha, to be honest I had 4 bolt and 4 decay originally but cut one bolt for grim and one decay for pulse just to diversify a bit. The slots that I felt were different from the punishing versions were the 3 fires + extra land. With two taken up by grim and pulse I decided I wanted a 5th bob effect (arena) and a loam for potential waste blowouts. So that's how I ended up where I am.
I really like Arena, it's saved me a couple times when I needed to keep up. Drawing two cards a turn is very strong in this deck. It was a really awkward Bob flip in one of my matches though. It's just a pretty grindy meta here and I like the access to extra cards.
I feel like if I do acquire Groves I would just play Aggro Loam. Don't need as many and you can find them with Knight and Loam. I'm really liking this deck at the moment.
Ive thought about doing loam. But having to get chalices and diamonds sounds painful....plus, against all the infect i play, if i dont have chalice on t1 on 1 then it doesnt do me much good
Currently testing this:
Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Master of Cruelties
Enchantments/Planeswalkers
3 Destructive Flow
2 Sylvan Library
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
3 Abrupt Decay
Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Badlands
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard (constantly shifting)
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindsparker
2 City of Solitude
2 Golgari Charm
3 Pithing Needle
Not exactly the flavor of Jund you may be used to, and certainly non-standard, but just as much joy-gasming.
Matchup analyses available, when time permits.
-KTM
Remember that time you left for a few days and your girl stayed behind?
I kept her company.
Been thinking about playing a little jund. Can anyone give some feedback on the list I'm thinking of right now? Thanks!
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Grim Flayer / Tarmogoyf (Has Flayer shown any potential as a replacement so far? I'm cheap so I don't want to buy Goyfs :) )
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Scavenging Ooze (Or a 4th Flayer/Goyf)
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sinkhole
3 Thoughtseize
3 Badlands (or 2 and a Taiga?)
2 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
Question. How do we beat eldrazi? Mainly the 4+ toughness guys?
Ive thought of:
1) more hand hate. Not sire what except anothe hymn though
2) terminates
3) diabolic edicts
Thoughts?
For what you listed i think that terminate is awesome because with edict you should allow them to not sacrifice what you want in graveyard. On the other hand Diabolic is good against TNN deck-
Probably a turn 2 blood moon is more efficient than any other solution, keep them without mana to cast is a good way to be safe. On the other hand you have to play basic lands and got a good speed. And if he have a Wastes you suck.
Other solution is something like damnation....
I tested a bunch against Eldrazi. 1 of Loam and wasteland was good, Dismember was good as well. Ensnaring Bridge out of the side. Liliana was also quite good.
Reasonably, Eldrazi has explosive starts, but can run out of gas. If you can run Thoughtseize into Wasteland backed by a Goyf, it can be an okay time. I was playing my 3 Avalanche Riders build at the time and while slow, it was gas.
So, run a Loam, Dismember main, and a Bridge and an Edict side. Blood Moon isnt bad either ;)
I like this..i dont play against eldrazi often so i think i will add a dismember and bridge to the board (already have the loam) if we go bridge do we just burn them out? I run pfires fyi
@Sdematt: Are You still stick with this list? I really cannot figure out how painful trhuts can be better than confidant. Confidant is a 2 x 1 card that if let you draw a single card has done card advantage and also can bite the opponent.
second question: which negative matchup has improved the Avalanche riders? (i'm in love with them since Urza block...and not playing since it) compared to BBE or maybe a Chandra that i think will be a sure a staple for this deck (with chandra + ensaring bridge you win against Eldrazi)
Third: 59 cards list. ^_^
Agree with zulabnar here, I can't really fathom playing Jund without Bob.
Whilst DRS is pretty much why the deck works - Bob is certainly one of the major reasons you'd want to play Jund over something like shardless.
I play Loams sometimes.
Destructive Flow can be cast turn 2 off DRS, and single handedly shuts down all BUG variants, Eldrazi, 12post, MUD, and can even put a handle on Lands. I have even had success with it against Miracles (stops them from camping fetches) and DnT, whereupon they have no access to Wasteland, Karakas, or Port.
Also, it is just better than Blood Moon, as it DENIES them mana as opposed to changing the lands to mountains.
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Remember that time you left for a few days and your girl stayed behind?
I kept her company.
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