[Primer] R/G Lands

[jhport12]

Had the chance to face a new D&T list earlier this week and the pain is real against Prelate. I had prepared for this by cutting PF to three and putting two Molten Vortex in the main. Problem was is that D&T is so used to naming MV with Revoker that it was blocked as well. Might try out Kozilek's Return or Barbarian Ring next time.

My SB currently has 1 Molten Vortex and 1 Seismic Assault because of Revokers, but honestly I think a real sweeper is called for: Kozilek's Return, Firespout or the like.

[Ciubulu]

I was intrigued by the Long's list with 0x ports and 4x ghost quarters. After some testing with various decks I found that is better only in the mu's we are already favored and that's better g1, when there's low to none interaction with our graveyard. I will probably keep 1 as a silver bullet but they will not replace my ports.


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[Chatto]

My SB currently has 1 Molten Vortex and 1 Seismic Assault because of Revokers, but honestly I think a real sweeper is called for: Kozilek's Return, Firespout or the like.

Kozilek's Return will be a must, I might think. Instant-speed is very relevant.

[DudeItsCorey]

Ran the following list for back to back weekend events. Got 1st in a 44 Player event http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13439&d=278897&f=LE (winning a Tropical Island) and 3rd in a 47 player event http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...824#post969824 (winning a Goyf). LA doesn't have too many Miracles players, but has a lot of Show and Tell which is the reason for the warping wail. The card has been really good at countering Show and Tell or Infernal Tutor, but also has fringe applications as removal for D&T and Infect. I feel like I am boarding in Molten Vortex every game almost. Meant for a faster clock against combo, removal for Delver, D&T, Infect, etc. as well as not being completely locked out to blood moon. I tried playtesting 1 in the main and 1 in the side and took out 1 punishing fire, but it feels real bad when you dredge Molten Vortex into the graveyard, or when it's in your opening hand with Manabond. So I'm not sure. I haven't had to deal with Sanctum Prelate yet, so that may be the reason I need to put it in the main. Given I have a bunch of Show and Tell and Joseph Moreno (along with other Graveyard Strategies) in my Meta, I really like having both Bog and Karakas in my main. Going down to 2 Maze in the main 1 in the side has never felt bad and I think I am going to keep it that ratio from now on. Pithing Needle is another must have that I feel not enough lands decks are side boarding. Still not sold on Tireless Tracker being insane, but again, not too many Rest in Peace decks in my Meta right now.


35 LANDS
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

16 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Punishing Fire

9 OTHER SPELLS
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond

SIDEBOARD
1 Boil
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
1 Maze of Ith
1 Molten Vortex
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Warping Wail

[Drake0525]

Hi all,

I've been running a stock RG lands list at weeklys for the past few weeks. Tireless Tracker has been doing some really solid work for me my last few times out. The ability to play a card in the deck that effectively eliminates my reliance on the graveyard in games 2 and 3 has been very powerful. I am considering going up to 4 Trackers in the sideboard, but that would probably mean siding out a Loam in games 2 and 3 for the 4th Tracker - so I'm not certain that would be a good strategy. What do you guys think?

This is my sideboard as of now:

4x Krosan Grip
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Trinisphere
2x Sphere of Resistance
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Boil
1x Dark Depths

I'd probably be looking at cutting a Trinisphere for the 4th Tracker. Thanks for any advice guys!

[DigitalPsycho]

I feel like your SB is already weak against combo if you are going to cut a Trinisphere its going to be even worse.

I don't like Trinisphere in Lands, personly I would cut 2x Trinisphere and replace them with 2x Sphere of Resistance so you have a playset in your SB.

For the 4 Tracker you could just cut your one DD.

Depending on your Mainboard the question is also if you want to play Boil. I would play Boil over Choke only if you run a Boseiju, Who Shelters All. Depending if you have one Mainboard or not I would test Choke over Boil or Cut 1xBoil for one more Chalice of the Void.


4x Krosan Grip
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Chalice of the Void
1x Choke

something like that, but Choke is supjektiv.

Edit: Would also probably not play the 4 Tracker and play a 2 Choke

[Djehuti]

Recently I played a game against painter where my opponent surgically extracted my loam after turn 1 and it got me thinking. How conservatively do you guys play around surgical extraction? The existence of that card warps so many of my decisions in post board games. I'll never expose a combo piece by pitching it to mox diamond in the early turns or laying one of the pieces too early if my opponent has wastelands. I even bring in trackers and chalices so i can protect loam. Its entirely possible that i respect that card too much but I'm curious how everyone else keeps their engine going post board.

[DudeItsCorey]

Recently I played a game against painter where my opponent surgically extracted my loam after turn 1 and it got me thinking. How conservatively do you guys play around surgical extraction? The existence of that card warps so many of my decisions in post board games. I'll never expose a combo piece by pitching it to mox diamond in the early turns or laying one of the pieces too early if my opponent has wastelands. I even bring in trackers and chalices so i can protect loam. Its entirely possible that i respect that card too much but I'm curious how everyone else keeps their engine going post board.

So against Surgical Extraction, ideally you want to play around it. However, you can only really do so if you have two Grove of the Burnwillows in play or a Tranquil Thicket in hand. Sometimes you just have to say "F it!" and go, because you can't really let the threat of them having it stop you from doing what you want to be doing. If I have two Groves or a Tranquil Thicket then I can play more tightly and cautious as though they have it. Against Painter I am definitely not going to think they have it it in their board (unless I saw it game 2 going into game 3). Surgical in my opinion, is really only good when paired with discard or tempo counters. Also in dealing with their combo, like most combo matchups, is hard for us to interact with and you're going to have to play the racing game and try to combo off ASAP. Which is why I can never get behind going down to 3 dark depths in the main. Being able to kick it into 4th gear as soon as turn 1 is how I win more often against combo then trying to bog them down with spheres and such, although I have won that route too. "Stealing" game 1 in those matchups really goes a long way.

[Ciubulu]

Today I made 9th place with 4x ghost quarter instead of 4x rishadan ports in a 40 man tournament. 2 losses, both against ur delver, due to bad plays and few experience of the mu but I'm very satisfied with the change.

[Layalouhamesh]

Good news everyone, looks like there is no need to play blue anymore to have an access to Academy Ruins!
Not as good as Buried Ruins for the artifact retrieval part, but milling 5 can accelerate a lot of stuffs if playing crucible.

[j2los]

Good news everyone, looks like there is no need to play blue anymore to have an access to Academy Ruins!
Not as good as Buried Ruins for the artifact retrieval part, but milling 5 can accelerate a lot of stuffs if playing crucible.

I see two problems with this. One, in an effort to not make broken lands, WotC has been printing interesting lands effects with high activation costs. Two, this sacs itself, therefore, in order to make it recursive without Crucible you have to use up two draw steps. I don't think these costs add up to something more effective/efficient than just running a Trop.

[non-inflammable]

I don't think these costs add up to something more effective/efficient than just running a Trop.

I ran Academy Ruins without any islands in my list

[Claymore]

Today I made 9th place with 4x ghost quarter instead of 4x rishadan ports in a 40 man tournament. 2 losses, both against ur delver, due to bad plays and few experience of the mu but I'm very satisfied with the change.

What matchups did you have? What is the aim of the GQs, just to ghostout opponents with Loam?

[snorlaxcom]

Good news everyone, looks like there is no need to play blue anymore to have an access to Academy Ruins!
Not as good as Buried Ruins for the artifact retrieval part, but milling 5 can accelerate a lot of stuffs if playing crucible.

Blue is played for more powerful tutors like twest and Intuition. Academy is only really good with ee, which I see no benefit to running here. Shit's too slow for either build.

[Crimhead]

Blue is played for more powerful tutors like twest and Intuition. Academy is only really good with ee...

Academy Ruins makes nice Intuition piles, including with Crucible (or if Loam is Extracted, indirectly by grabbing 2x TWest + Crucble).

I bring this up because currently part of blue's allure (besides EE) is Crucible; being a graveyard recursion engine which is not shut out by Prelate on

[Ciubulu]

What matchups did you have? What is the aim of the GQs, just to ghostout opponents with Loam?

I lost g1 against ur delver mixing my stupid plays and very good draws from my opponent
Won g2 against miracles
Won G3 aginst bug delver
Won G4 against bug delver
Won G5 against 4 colors loam
Lost g6 against ur delver mixing no tight plays and the worst unlucky dredges of my life

When port is bad gq is bad, when port is "meh" gq is great, when port is good gq is a wasteland.

[myopic]

Had a recent tournament experience using black splash for 3xAbrupt Decay where I struggled against D&T.

The matchup isn't that great to start with. My strategy is usually to leave classic Thalia alone so STP gets more difficult to cast through my land disruption.
Abrupt Decay helps getting rid of Vials. New Thalia has been a major annoyance - the tempo loss is brutal. But usually I manage to remove it.

In this tournament though Sanctum Prelate completely wrecked me. Shut off Loam, PFire and AD. I'm wondering whether I should split between Molten Vortex and PFire or drop PFire altogether. I'm not sure what other tools we have to combat this.
It's clear to me that Prelate will have a big impact. Guess we'll see when it's available on MTGO how big it will be.

[filln]

Had a recent tournament experience using black splash for 3xAbrupt Decay where I struggled against D&T.

The matchup isn't that great to start with. My strategy is usually to leave classic Thalia alone so STP gets more difficult to cast through my land disruption.
Abrupt Decay helps getting rid of Vials. New Thalia has been a major annoyance - the tempo loss is brutal. But usually I manage to remove it.

In this tournament though Sanctum Prelate completely wrecked me. Shut off Loam, PFire and AD. I'm wondering whether I should split between Molten Vortex and PFire or drop PFire altogether. I'm not sure what other tools we have to combat this.
It's clear to me that Prelate will have a big impact. Guess we'll see when it's available on MTGO how big it will be.

Haven't had a lot of chances to test this live but my current plan has been 3x PF and 2x MV with a Kozilek's Return in the SB. If D&T becomes even more popular I may give Barbarian Ring a shot too.

[Ciubulu]

Ring is very effective g1 because with prelate on 2 you can still crop/gamble for it or, with it on board, prelate is not a threat. This way game 1 is grindy but winnable.

[Domri Rade]

What matchups did you have? What is the aim of the GQs, just to ghostout opponents with Loam?

Been trying it out myself in local tournaments and it seems better than port in most matchups. Not only can you use it to ghost people out, you can use it to take people off of certain colors of mana, or force a miracles player to shuffle after a top activation, or destroy your opponents karakas/Wasteland before you copy DD. If people in my local meta start running more basics I may switch the build up again, but for now I think it is generally better.