All B/R update speculation.

[Lemnear]

My thought as well. It's somewhat difficult getting 2 blue in an ANT shell without LED at times early in the game. I think my list maybe just cuts the red entirely and goes UB Storm. PIF is sweet to beat counters and discard, but simply making 6 mana and casting desire beats counters often as well.

Sure, you can totally dive a bit deeper into the Mind's Desire/Sin of the Past package and cut alternate engines, but I admit not having tested how far you can push it before it gets clunky. Maybe it would end up a deck where you want to pair HighTide with DarkRitual rather than either/or.

[Crimhead]

Rest in peace+ helm is better in enchantress cause rest in peace is good on his own.

RIP is useless in a lot of matches, and keeps us from running Replenish (or from recycling our graveyard with Emrakul). Helm is virtually always useless without RIP - and it's not even an enchantment!

Earthcraft alone let's our Enchantresses tap for two or more mana, and Squirrel's Nest at least makes blockers (we die to combat damage a lot). If we compare the combos on the utility of their components, the Earthcraft combo wins hands down IMO; barring local metas which are overrun with graveyard combo decks.

An Earthcraft unban will almost surely give the deck a boost. Sadly I'm still in the process of rebuilding it, so I don't want anything unbanned which could trigger price spikes - not until next announcement in January! So for now my vote is for unbanning Mind Twist - Elves and Tezz could use the love.

[Finn]

RIP is useless in a lot of matches, and keeps us from running Replenish (or from recycling our graveyard with Emrakul). Helm is virtually always useless without RIP - and it's not even an enchantment!

Earthcraft alone let's our Enchantresses tap for two or more mana, and Squirrel's Nest at least makes blockers (we die to combat damage a lot). If we compare the combos on the utility of their components, the Earthcraft combo wins hands down IMO; barring local metas which are overrun with graveyard combo decks.

An Earthcraft unban will almost surely give the deck a boost. Sadly I'm still in the process of rebuilding it, so I don't want anything unbanned which could trigger price spikes - not until next announcement in January! So for now my vote is for unbanning Mind Twist - Elves and Tezz could use the love.

Being able to tap Argothian Enchantress for mana is pretty hot. I had this setup for awhile many years ago. In that environment, creatures become more valuable in general. Quirion Ranger and Llanowar Elves with Instill Energy (back when the word "haste" appeared in its gatherer wording) could make for nearly nearly endless mana on turn 3 commonly. Then you just attack with one of them and like an Ancestral Mask or whatever tech would be used today. Earthcraft would be big for Enchantress.

[btm10]

The kill you actually want in Enchantress with Earthcraft is Sacred Mesa since it's better than Squirrel Nest on its own. Like you said, making Argothian into a mana dork is the real upside, though.

Also, I go away for a couple of days and people want to unban Mind's Desire? That's probably crazier than unbanning Balance, since at least they aren't typically Balancing on turn 2 through disruption.

[adrieng]

So I have found the list from extended scourge here :
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/e..._Extended.html

Are we really scared of this deck in today meta :
I LoLed it doesn't kill at all turn three with backup it is just pure garbbage for today meta I mean.
On the other hand the list I have proposed is a little better than classic storm but it can fizzle though it might be a little too good I agree.

But don't say shits like extended sourge had turn three kills backed up while the played lists were the followings :


4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Sapphire Medallion
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mind's Desire
3 Snap
3 Intuition
3 Cunning Wish
2 Deep Analysis
2 Merchant Scroll
1 Brain Freeze
2 Turnabout
3 Sunscape Familiar
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Flooded Strand
4 Adarkar Wastes
1 Polluted Delta
7 Island
1 Plains

[Megadeus]

That deck looks like it absolutely can kill on turn 3

[adrieng]

That deck could consistently kill on turn 3. Through hate.

there is the CONSISTENTLY and through HATE which intriges me. I didn't say it can't kill turn 3 I said that most of the time it can't and surely not CONSISTENTLY and through HATE.

[btm10]

there is the CONSISTENTLY and through HATE which intriges me. I didn't say it can't kill turn 3 I said that most of the time it can't and surely not CONSISTENTLY and through HATE.

It's over 50% to have a cost reducer on turn 2 (and can play one turn 1 with Chrome Mox), and cost reducer + free spell is the real combo. Recall that Force had already rotated out of Extended at this point (IIRC, I didn't play much Extended after the Duals rotated out). Daze was a (beatable) thing, though Foil was more common, I think.

[taconaut]

4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Sapphire Medallion
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mind's Desire
3 Snap
3 Intuition
3 Cunning Wish
2 Deep Analysis
2 Merchant Scroll
1 Brain Freeze
2 Turnabout
3 Sunscape Familiar
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Flooded Strand
4 Adarkar Wastes
1 Polluted Delta
7 Island
1 Plains

This deck looks sweeeeeet. I understand why it makes actual zero sense to unban Mind's desire in Legacy, but I love rolling the dice on a risky Ad Nauseam, and I am 100% sure I would love to roll the dice on a risky Mind's Desire as much or more.

[Lemnear]

This deck looks sweeeeeet. I understand why it makes actual zero sense to unban Mind's desire in Legacy, but I love rolling the dice on a risky Ad Nauseam, and I am 100% sure I would love to roll the dice on a risky Mind's Desire as much or more.

There is no Risk in slamming Desire. It cannot be FoW'd or shit and you need zero mana to cast all the cards flipped unlike with Ad Nauseam.

[thefringthing]

Desire for two or three seems pretty risky to me.

[Lemnear]

Is today a B&R update?

[thefringthing]

Announcements for changes to the Banned & Restricted lists are done all together on the Monday after a new set's Prerelease, to go into effect with that set's release.

[ironclad8690]

There will definitely be no changes to legacy, there hasn't even been an event for people to be up in arms about.

[thefringthing]

There will definitely be no changes to legacy, there hasn't even been an event for people to be up in arms about.

There's always MTGO data. I know they sometimes look at which cards are most correlated with victory, etc.

[Jain_Mor]

The new cards from conspiracy aren't even on modo yet, so surely no changes

[Echelon]

Concerning Mind's Desire - this is what I ran in Extended at some point (somewhere in 2008, I believe).

3 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Manamorphose
4 Wild Cantor
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Plunge into Darkness
4 Seething Song
4 Ancient Spring
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Geothermal Crevice
4 Sulfur Vent
2 Tinder Farm
3 Sins of the Past
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Burning Wish
4 Rite of Flame
3 Mind’s Desire

Sideboard
1 Mind’s Desire
1 Sins of the Past
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Pact of Negation
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Echoing Truth

It was fast and consistent like a motherfucker.

Mind's Desire can never be unbanned safely in todays Legacy. It was overpowered without cards like Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual and LED and Infernal Tutor, with those cards it's beyond nuts.

[Lemnear]

even Lotus Bloom works with Desire. Just saying

[Echelon]

even Lotus Bloom works with Desire. Just saying

Don't need it. Once Desire gets going the rituals and colour fixes are all you might need.

[rufus]

...

Mind's Desire can never be unbanned safely in todays Legacy. It was overpowered without cards like Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual and LED and Infernal Tutor, with those cards it's beyond nuts.

There are safer cards on the list to be sure, but I'm not convinced that Mind's Desire would see that much competitive play if it were unbanned. The gap between being able to reliably chain Mind's Desires, and being able to just win with Tendrils is very small, and legacy storm decks are very mana cost sensitive.