[Primer] R/G Lands

[Crimhead]

In this tournament though Sanctum Prelate completely wrecked me. Shut off Loam, PFire and AD. I'm wondering whether I should split between Molten Vortex and PFire or drop PFire altogether.

Certainly the Jund builds do not get better because of Prelate!

A lot of lists are running a Vortex/PFire split - including the most recent list to place in a major event:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=107582

I've been running the split myself and have been very happy with it (and I started before Prelate was spoiled).

I'm not sure what other tools we have to combat this.
It's clear to me that Prelate will have a big impact.

There is a RUG version of this deck which is not only more resilient to Prelate, but has always had a better D&T match up anyway. I don't necessarily think everybody should drop RG for RUG! But I do think every Lands pilot should be aware of (and test) both builds - especially those of us who play in a "local meta".

If you read the August update in the DTBF Philosophy & Deck Selection, the two builds are collectively putting up enough results to make DTB (if we considered them the same deck). So if you've dismissed RUG as outdated or obsolete, it might be time to take another look.

in an effort to not make broken lands, WotC has been printing interesting lands effects with high activation costs.

[jhport12]

...in an effort to not make broken lands, WotC has been printing interesting lands effects with high activation costs.

Overpowered lands? Thank God WotC has their priorities in order!

Meanwhile, they've had no issue printing overpowered blue cards over the years (Delver, T. Cruise, DTT) and making Chandra Nalaar (Nalaar!) and white Irish-looking redhead with two Indian parents. Such a well-run company...

[Jaytron]

Overpowered lands? Thank God WotC has their priorities in order!

Meanwhile, they've had no issue printing overpowered blue cards over the years (Delver, T. Cruise, DTT) and making Chandra Nalaar (Nalaar!) and white Irish-looking redhead with two Indian parents. Such a well-run company...

I think White has been getting all the love as of late.

[benjiman13]

Some thoughts about the last Nissa from Kaladesh? and the comparison with Tireless tracker?

[Crimhead]

Overpowered lands? Thank God WotC has their priorities in order!

I think the issue is that in Standard all lands are effectively indestructible. That's no excuse for the supplementary products though! That monarch land could have had an activation cost of sac + tap (no mana) and not even come close to problematic in CNS limited play. WotC just hates good utility lands. :(

Some thoughts about the last Nissa from Kaladesh? and the comparison with Tireless tracker?

Too much mana. Nissa would be fighting for Tracker's slots, and Tracker is just better. Nice that Nissa dodges Plow and Decay, but not nice enough to run her over Tracker IMO.

Been trying it out myself in local tournaments and it seems better than port in most matchups. Not only can you use it to ghost people out, you can use it to take people off of certain colors of mana, or force a miracles player to shuffle after a top activation, or destroy your opponents karakas/Wasteland before you copy DD. If people in my local meta start running more basics I may switch the build up again, but for now I think it is generally better.

I'm the sort of Lands player who loves his Ports and can't imagine GQ being better. That said I'm not an expert, and if David Long was running them and others are reporting positive experiences, I'm inclined to at least consider it.

But why cut Ports entirely? I'm currently running one GQ and four Ports, and I'm considering a 2/3 split to stick my toe in these waters...

[The_Dingo]

I'm the sort of Lands player who loves his Ports and can't imagine GQ being better. That said I'm not an expert, and if David Long was running them and others are reporting positive experiences, I'm inclined to at least consider it.

But why cut Ports entirely? I'm currently running one GQ and four Ports, and I'm considering a 2/3 split to stick my toe in these waters...

I was dubious about ghost quarter over port as well, but I pulled a straight up swap for a weekly and I was impressed by them. Round 2 against an esper control blade with quite a few basics the ghost quarters started out as a liability but as the game went longer they became strip mines. In game 3 I was operating with limited resources and the ghost quarter allowed me to blow up a white source and make a 20/20 when I otherwise would not have had enough mana to also activate port.

My other MUs were Jund Nic Fit and Mogg Stompy, so port vs ghost quarter didn't matter in the slightest.

I don't have enough experience to say conclusively one way or the other, but I'm at least convinced that GQ is worth more testing.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I started playing it a bit on MTGO since it wasn't outrageously expensive to put together and it's felt surprisingly good so far. I only got to play a few matches last night but it was vital against 12 post and their needles (they had to needle wasteland and stage 2 out of 3 games letting ghost quarter go nuts), absolutely destroyed stoneblade, and helped strip away storms mana in games 2 and 3 after a chalice on zero that left them locked unless they found a very good ritual hand which never happened.

I'm going to happily keep running it online since it's close enough in power level to ports for me. I'm sure there are times when ports will be better but the ghost quarter build has some legs for sure.

[djxstream]

Went 3-0 at my LGS this week using a 4 Ghost Quarter build.

4C Delver, Mirror, Reanimator. It was an all star across the board. G2 vs Delver put a needle on two recurring GQ, dredge into wasteland, concede.

vs the mirror (running ports), i never went full mana denial because both games he had early moxes but a deciding factor was at one point my board is something like forest, stage, ghost quarter, grove. he has an untapped wasteland going into his end step. his forest is in play, but no mana open for crop rotation. I GQ the wasteland to make him use it, then go for the combo with my crop rotation. If it was a port, I'd be a mana shy.

vs reanimator. this matchup is eon's easier when they dont have tidespout tyrant (he doesnt own one was the reasoning). Ghost quarters didnt really do much in this matchup, but what was great was because he had no tidespout, his non-legendary target was inkwell leviathan he eventually gets it in play, I get a tracker in play....and because I'm not wasting mana porting him down, I pop so many clues. I took one shot from inkwell, but by his next turn, my tracker was a 9/8. so slows him down, next turn draw into combo. concede. also, warping wail countering a show & tell was a great feeling.

went 3-0, all 2-0 sweeps. never once had to take my marit lage token out of the box. everyone conceded to the idea of it coming, or tracker did work.

since i took out the ports, and normally run 1 GQ main, I replaced the 4 ports with 3 GQs and moved a karakas main. left an extra slot for the SB. 3rd Tracker. I like this config so far.

[Ciubulu]

@djxstream what's your sideboard?
@supremepineapple are you "onewithnothing" on mtgo? I saw a build with 4 gq's piloted by him in the 5-0 zone of legacy league few days ago...

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Nope, same name, haven't ran a league with it yet.

[djxstream]

@djxstream what's your sideboard?

4 Grips
4 Spheres
1 Boseju
2 Warping wails
1 Chalice
3 Trackers

As mentioned the karakas moved main for a 3rd tracker when making the GQ/Port move.

[Ciubulu]

Thanks to both, I should try a couple of wails too, they looks spicy in many situations


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[barcode]

As mentioned the karakas moved main for a 3rd tracker when making the GQ/Port move.

Vindication. ;)

[Dice_Box]

Play this week with Tracker main. Sadly they did next to nothing as I only drew them twice. One of the times it ate a dismember and turned on a dead card in my opponent's hand, the other time it ate a Sword that would have been an issue for my Witch, had I not have ended up with 3 ports in play and able to lock down White in Miracles before I comboed. The benefit though was felt elsewhere. The two spots in the side I had free I filled with Ghost Quarter and a second Tabernacle. Both cards are MVP's against Eldrazi, something I saw twice. So in a way the Trackers helped there.

[Ciubulu]

Play this week with Tracker main. Sadly they did next to nothing as I only drew them twice. One of the times it ate a dismember and turned on a dead card in my opponent's hand, the other time it ate a Sword that would have been an issue for my Witch, had I not have ended up with 3 ports in play and able to lock down White in Miracles before I comboed. The benefit though was felt elsewhere. The two spots in the side I had free I filled with Ghost Quarter and a second Tabernacle. Both cards are MVP's against Eldrazi, something I saw twice. So in a way the Trackers helped there.

In all my tests tracker proved to be a bomb out of the sideboard but not md material.
The reason is that many dead cards against us in g1 are removals and most of the side against us are graveyard hate and take place of the abovementioned removals.

[GoblinZ]

Hi, guys, have u ever tested barbarian ring against DNT recently? I have seen your discussion on sanctum prelate before but I am just curious if it could be the game breaker in this mu. I am considering now to play either a punishing/molten vortex split or a single barbarian ring or kozilek return in sb and not sure which is the best choice, for Molten vortex I fear revoker and occational lack of red mana and for kozilek return I hate to dredge it in the graveyard and I am dubious how realistic we can get it from gamble.

Another question: If I want to make room for another removal, what should I cut? I am considering manabond or riftstone portal but not sure of it yet.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

One of is fine, it's nothing to get threshold in this deck, and with 4 crop rotations, you have effectively 5 copies.

If the norm for D&T becomes 3-4 Prelates tho, Vortex may simply be better, although there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on the number of prelates.

if you must cut one, cut riftstone, although there are other cuts I think are better. The 2nd or 3rd thicket, Karakas, Bog or possibly the 4th depths are better.

[GoblinZ]

One of is fine, it's nothing to get threshold in this deck, and with 4 crop rotations, you have effectively 5 copies.

If the norm for D&T becomes 3-4 Prelates tho, Vortex may simply be better, although there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on the number of prelates.

if you must cut one, cut riftstone, although there are other cuts I think are better. The 2nd or 3rd thicket, Karakas, Bog or possibly the 4th depths are better.

Thanks a lot, I just found Lantto's list playing at Prague and some lists form Japan don't have riftstone portal.

I now play boseiju and GQ instead of bog and karakas(the latter two remain in my sb now), I would make some treak after the tournament.

[benjiman13]

Hi guys,

need some help on a sideboarding plan.

Here's my main:
// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
3 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Taiga
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
4 Life from the Loam
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
4 Crop Rotation

And now the sideboard:
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Krosan Grip
1 Boil
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dark Depths

I begun to work on some of the matchup but still have a lot to do. Need some advice!

ELDRAZI
KEY CARDS
Chalice of the Void Leyline of the Void
Pithing Needle Karakas
Eldrazi Displacer
IN
4 Krosan Grip
2 Tireless Tracker
(1 Pithing Needle if W version)
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
1 Life from the Loam
(1 Life from the Loam if W version)
PLAN
Destroy mana and Maze of ith to survive.

GRIXIS DELVER
KEY CARDS
Surgical Extraction Pithing Needle
Deathrite Shaman
IN
1 Krosan Grip
OUT
1 Karakas
(Warping Wail?)
PLAN
Play around Surgical Extraction.

Death & Taxes
KEY CARDS
Flickerwisp Karakas
Rest in Peace Wasteland
Cataclysm
IN
4 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tireless Tracker
OUT
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Manabond
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Life from the Loam
1 Rifstone Portal
PLAN
Stabilize with Tabernacle, P Fire and Maze. Tap all the white mana.

Burn
KEY CARDS
Price of Progress Pithing Needle
Ensnaring bridge
IN OUT
1 Dark Depths
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Krosan grip
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
PLAN
Fast combo plan or eternal chasm with Punishing Fire kill. Dodge Price of Progress by crop rotating in chasm.

Canadian Threshold
KEY CARDS
Surgical Extraction Submerge
Pithing Needle
IN
1 Dark Depths
OUT
1 Karakas
PLAN
Play around Daze, Spell Pierce and Surgical. Mana denial. Remove your forest before combo.

Merfolk
KEY CARDS
Chalice of the Void Surgical Extraction
Pithing Needle Submerge
IN
1 Dark Depths
3 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Manabond
1 Gamble
1 Life from the Loam
PLAN
Punish them all!

Maverick
KEY CARDS
Deathrite Shaman Surgical Extraction
Scavenging Ooze Pithing Needle
IN
1 Dark Depths
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Krosan Grip
OUT
1 Manabond
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Life from the Loam
1 Gamble
PLAN
Crop rotating for Bojuka Bog to reduce KotR. Mana denial. Combo when tapped out of white mana.

Patriot
KEY CARDS
Rest in Peace Submerge
Meddling Mage
IN
4 Krosan Grip
1 Dark Depths
OUT
1 Manabond
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Karakas
PLAN
Play around Daze and Spell Pierce. Mana denial. Combo when tapped out of white mana.

MUD
KEY CARDS
Pithing Needle Tsabo's Web
IN
4 Krosan Grip
1 Dark Depths
1 Pithing Needle
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Manabond
PLAN
Mana denial. Combo when they are low on ressource.

Miracle
KEY CARDS
Counterbalance Rest in Peace
Sensei's Divining Top Karakas
IN
4 Krosan Grip
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Boil
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 Sphere of Resistance
OUT
1 Karakas
1 Manabond
3 Maze of Ith
1 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Mox Diamond
2 Crop Rotation
PLAN
Waste and port white mana.

Shardless BUG
KEY CARDS
Surgical Extraction Pithing Needle
Deathrite Shaman Winter Orb
IN
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
(Warping Wail?)
OUT
1 Karakas
1 Manabond
1 Glacial Chasm
PLAN

Lands
KEY CARDS

IN
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dark Depths
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
OUT
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Punishing Fire
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
PLAN
Karakas, Bojuka Bog and Pithing Needle MVP (Chalice too).

Storm
KEY CARDS

IN
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Boil
1 Dark Depths
(Warping Wail?)
OUT
3 Punishing Fire
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
PLAN
Gamble turn 1 for Chalice at 0. Then lock with Sphere and mana denial.

Infect
KEY CARDS
Surgical Extraction Submerge
Karakas Pithing Needle
Bojuka bog
IN
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
OUT
1 Karakas
2 Life from the Loam
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Manabond
PLAN
Mana Denial, Punishing Grove, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Crop Rotation.

Show and Tell
KEY CARDS
Show and Tell Blood Moon
Sneak Attack
IN
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Boil
4 Krosan Grip
(Warping Wail?)
OUT
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Molten Vortex
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Punishing Fire
3 Maze of Ith
PLAN
Karakas and Pithing Needle MVP.

Reanimator
KEY CARDS
Pithing Needle Show and Tell
IN
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dark Depths
1 Chalice of the Void
OUT
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Molten Vortex
3 Punishing Fire
2 Tranquil Thicket
PLAN
Karakas, Bojuka Bog and Pithing Needle MVP.

Elves
KEY CARDS
Pithing Needle Show and Tell
IN
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Dark Depths
OUT
1 Manabond
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
PLAN
Tabernacle first. Then P Fire all. Then mana denial. Race Progenitus with Marit.

Painter
KEY CARDS
Blood Moon Magus of the Moon
Rest in Peace Ensnaring Bridge
IN
4 Krosan Grip
1 Dark Depths
OUT
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Manabond
1 Ghost Quarter
PLAN

Missing:

Dragon Stompy
UR Delver
BANT
Jund
Goblins
4C Loam
Nic Fit
Grixis Pyromancer
The Rock
Tezzzeret Control
Pox
Stoneblade
Dredge
Turbo Depths
Food Chain
Titan Post
Belcher
Big Red
Aluren
Enchantress

[GoblinZ]

Death & Taxes
KEY CARDS
Flickerwisp Karakas
Rest in Peace Wasteland
Cataclysm
IN
4 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tireless Tracker
OUT
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Manabond
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Life from the Loam
1 Rifstone Portal

I assume riftstone portal may be helpful in this mu, I would take some moxen out because of revoker and flickerwisp