[Primer] R/G Lands

[Ingo]

P.s. Shardless often leave in Abrupt Decay for your Moxen and Explorations. This should give you a tip for your sb plan.

If your hinting to take out moxen or explorations postboard, id be curious for your reasoning, as I dont think you should ever swap out these acceleration pieces. But perhaps you're hinting towards something else.

[Ciubulu]

David Long's recent list runs a 3/2 Vortex/Grove split, and hence only 3 Groves. This could free up a slot if you are conducive to going that way.

That's my actual list of "Ghost Lands". I'm quite satisfied except for the ring but I hate to lose from a single card.

4 Wasteland
4 ghost quarter
4 thespian's stage
4 grove of the burnwillows
3 dark depths
3 maze of ith
2 taiga
1 tranquil thicket
1 misty rainforest
1 verdant catacomb
1 windswept heat
1 wooded foothills
1 forest
1 Tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 barbarian ring
1 boseiju who shelters all
1 bojuka bog

4 Gamble
4 crop rotation
4 life from the loam
4 punishing fire
4 exploration
1 manabond

Side:
4 sphere of resistance
4 krosan grip
3 tireless tracker
2 kozilek's return
1 pithing needle
1 chalice of the void

[Chatto]

How are the Kozilek's Return, any good?

[Ciubulu]

How are the Kozilek's Return, any good?

They are mainly vs d&t but they proved very good vs other creature heavy decks like shardless, nic fit etc...

I tested molten vortex both main and side but d&t can easily deal with it and they expect it post board, return kills everything except avengers (moms included) and it's cmc3 that's very relevant if they hit multiple prelates because if they name 2 and 3 I still have crops & gambles and if they name 1 and 2 (like they always should do) I have a way out from the lock other than barbarian ring

[Sibelius]

If your hinting to take out moxen or explorations postboard, id be curious for your reasoning, as I dont think you should ever swap out these acceleration pieces. But perhaps you're hinting towards something else.

No I was hinting that Choke is not actually very good as a Lands sb card anymore. Shardless keep their answers to it in their deck as they have so many other cards to take out. They also will be fetching their basic Forest and Swamp asap. Miracles also bring in their answers to it. This is why people are playing Boil.

I was also trying to remind people that a lot of the Shardless mu post board is not actually about what you bring in but your approach. A couple of Grips for a Leyline and another way of dealing with Meddling Mage (as the first one should name pfire) is all you need to do vs Shardless. People will loose more games by overboarding Trackers and Choke thus turning on Decays and simultaneously weakening the main plan. Hit your land drops, deal with Deathrite and swing with Marit Lage.

Sib

[Ingo]

No I was hinting that Choke is not actually very good as a Lands sb card anymore. Shardless keep their answers to it in their deck as they have so many other cards to take out. They also will be fetching their basic Forest and Swamp asap. Miracles also bring in their answers to it. This is why people are playing Boil.

I was also trying to remind people that a lot of the Shardless mu post board is not actually about what you bring in but your approach. A couple of Grips for a Leyline and another way of dealing with Meddling Mage (as the first one should name pfire) is all you need to do vs Shardless. People will loose more games by overboarding Trackers and Choke thus turning on Decays and simultaneously weakening the main plan. Hit your land drops, deal with Deathrite and swing with Marit Lage.

Sib

Yes, now that Tracker has taken stocklist places in the sideboard, there's even more reason to keep decay in.

It's part of the reason why Tracker hasn't overperformed for me, as he gets dealt with regularly.
Usually I feel more comfortable in winning through gravehate by emphasing on the combo, than by Trackers alternate grinding engine.
So I had high expectations for Tracker in 2 matchups where the combo is hard to pull off, D&T and Miracles.

But Tracker did disappoint me in both matchups.
Against D&T my problem is RIP cutting of recursive Punishing Fires to deal with the creatureflood, and Tracker doesn't solve that.
And against Miracles, Tracker and Marit Lage are both creatures, and Miracles excells in dealing with that axis. Here I feel like Tracker is great when he sticks, but on the other hand Marit Lage would have stuck as well.

So I'm curious, what are other people's experiences with Tracker in these matchups?

[Ciubulu]

Yes, now that Tracker has taken stocklist places in the sideboard, there's even more reason to keep decay in.

It's part of the reason why Tracker hasn't overperformed for me, as he gets dealt with regularly.
Usually I feel more comfortable in winning through gravehate by emphasing on the combo, than by Trackers alternate grinding engine.
So I had high expectations for Tracker in 2 matchups where the combo is hard to pull off, D&T and Miracles.

But Tracker did disappoint me in both matchups.
Against D&T my problem is RIP cutting of recursive Punishing Fires to deal with the creatureflood, and Tracker doesn't solve that.
And against Miracles, Tracker and Marit Lage are both creatures, and Miracles excells in dealing with that axis. Here I feel like Tracker is great when he sticks, but on the other hand Marit Lage would have stuck as well.

So I'm curious, what are other people's experiences with Tracker in these matchups?

Tracker worked for me in both mu.
Against d&t, if I can't deal with Rest In Peace quickly, it eats a stp that would probably be aimed to the token and if not dealt with the very first turn it makes me draw 2/3 cards that helps me find a removal/grip/board sweaper (one of my two kozilek's return) that helps me developing my main plan.

Against miracles it have a similar role but with the upside of messing up with their sideboard plans and being hardly counterable or a good bait for cropping my boseiju into play.

It is great both with back to basics and blood moon into play.

I play the ghost quarter version of lands that's already very good against miracles because I can cut them off plains quite easily and tracker help me forcing them to fetch for white, play stp or terminus, and loose another white source

[barcode]

So I'm curious, what are other people's experiences with Tracker in [death & taxes and miracles] matchups?

Tracker has been exceptional in ever matchup I want to bring it in. Miracles shouldn't be leaving Terminus in the deck at all so they only have plows to deal with it and if they use plows on Tracker that's plows they don't have for Marit Lage.

Tracker replaces the recursive element of the graveyard because it draws a huge amount of cards, digging you to the cards you need instead of dredging them.

[squirrelfiend]

Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Yesterday, I got 9th at a 66 player GPT, ultimately going 5-2 (results can be found here: http://www.knight-ware.com/ccg/magic...016legacy.html)

My tournament went like this:
Round 1: Miracles 2-0
Round 2: BUG Delver 2-0
Round 3: Shardless BUG 2-1
Round 4: Eldrazi Stompy 0-2
Round 5: Grixis Delver 2-0
Round 6: Burn 1-2
Round 7: Infect 2-1

Both the Eldrazi and Burn matchups were matchups I had never played before, and I feel like I sideboarded incorrectly, as well as making some critical play mistakes from being unfamiliar with the matchups.

I'm curious for any insights into the sideboarding strategy for the Eldrazi and Burn matchups.

All in all, the deck felt great. For reference, here was my list:

4 Life From The Loam
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
1 Manabond

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
2 Maze of Ith
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Maze of Ith
1 Boil
1 Molten Vortex
1 Chalice of the Void

[heckler]

Today I went 5-0 in the competitive Legacy league on MTGO.

was using a pretty stock list with 4 depths, bog in the main and GQ instead of ports.

SB was:

2 ancient grudge (coming out; probably replaced by pithing needles)
4 sphere of resistance
karakas
4 krosan grip
3 tireless tracker
boseiju, who shelters all

2-0 against manaless dredge: game 1 fast marit lage; game 2 crop rotated into bojuka bog leaving him with 2 cards in hand.

2-1 against a strange zombie deck: game 1 was lage on turn 5; game 2 he overwhelmed me and game 3 he played needle on thespian stage, but I controlled the game with tabernacle and chasm until I could thaw depths.

2-1 against bug delver: pretty standard playouts.

2-0 against bug delver: second game was really close with tabernacle down on other side of flipped delver and angler. ghost quartered a land and he keeps angler, finds a wasteland for my maze and puts me at 2. I topdeck a quarter and proceed to steal the game.

2-0 against grixis delver: same opponent as round 4. I played my games 4 hours apart so he must have rejoined the league and went 4-0 leading up to it.

[lavafrogg]

Is there any discussion about the Dark Lands list that I see floating around the internet?

[warfordium]

Is there any discussion about the Dark Lands list that I see floating around the internet?

I played it before my groves arrived for the more "mainstream" build—its better against DRS in the blind because it has decay and vortex, and is a bit more versatile overall thanks to Decay. you're a little more likely to want to draw a card in lieu of dredging Loam but the access to black in the board (for Thoughtseize; Tracker completely obviates Bob IMHO) really helps the combo matchup.

Along those lines I was happy to have access to Warping Wail (as a castable, non-recurrable card). blew out a couple storm players with it and again like being able to nug Thalia and DRS ASAP.

[lavafrogg]

Seems to have a better miracles matchup, which I like, the DnT matchup seems like would also improve. What are the downsides?

[heckler]

one non mox black source. decay doesn't jive with dredge well. I don't think that decay hedges the DnT matchup as well as running kozilek's return like some people are.

[lavafrogg]

one non mox black source. decay doesn't jive with dredge well. I don't think that decay hedges the DnT matchup as well as running kozilek's return like some people are.

From what I can see it helps in situations where you cannot dredge a lot. All of the combo/lock pieces are still there sans punishing fire but I don't think I have ever lost a matchup wheee I was free to dredge as I please anyways.

[Domri Rade]

Yes, now that Tracker has taken stocklist places in the sideboard, there's even more reason to keep decay in.

It's part of the reason why Tracker hasn't overperformed for me, as he gets dealt with regularly.
Usually I feel more comfortable in winning through gravehate by emphasing on the combo, than by Trackers alternate grinding engine.
So I had high expectations for Tracker in 2 matchups where the combo is hard to pull off, D&T and Miracles.

But Tracker did disappoint me in both matchups.
Against D&T my problem is RIP cutting of recursive Punishing Fires to deal with the creatureflood, and Tracker doesn't solve that.
And against Miracles, Tracker and Marit Lage are both creatures, and Miracles excells in dealing with that axis. Here I feel like Tracker is great when he sticks, but on the other hand Marit Lage would have stuck as well.

So I'm curious, what are other people's experiences with Tracker in these matchups?

I don't like bringing in tracker against DnT, my main plan is to grind them out and try to control the board. But against Miracles Bringing in 4 tracker can be extremely back breaking and is sometimes enough to win on it's own.

[DudeItsCorey]

So my Meta has had a huge upswing in D&T and Sanctum Prelate is a real card against Lands. I tried 1 main and 1 sideboard Molten Vortex, and although can be great, is easily dealt with with Revokers and Pithing Needles. Tonight at my local weekly legacy I am going to try Anarchy in the side and see if that gets me anywhere. I'm hoping to have a surprise factor with it, but we will see. Too bad it isn't instant speed.

[non-inflammable]

Tonight at my local weekly legacy I am going to try Anarchy in the side

wow, such a great card. Red's only answer to white enchantments: that phil foglio art.
Post up your results. please...

""The Shaman waved the staff, and the land itself went mad.""

[chaosjace]

Has Burning Wish been talked about? (probably)
You could fill your SB with silver bullets and have improved G1 match ups against anything, reduces the impact of Chalice on 1, you could side out a Loam game 2 to protect it from surgical. There are more upsides to it but it has probably been discussed. I guess I would replace gamble? I feel like there might be more value getting any card you need than hoping you don't discard something you would rather have. I think I recall Living wish being talked about but I do not remember the arguments against it.

[barcode]

Has Burning Wish been talked about? (probably)
You could fill your SB with silver bullets and have improved G1 match ups against anything, reduces the impact of Chalice on 1, you could side out a Loam game 2 to protect it from surgical. There are more upsides to it but it has probably been discussed. I guess I would replace gamble? I feel like there might be more value getting any card you need than hoping you don't discard something you would rather have. I think I recall Living wish being talked about but I do not remember the arguments against it.

I would much rather have Living Wish.