[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Whitefaces]

Besides, it can hit the field as early as T2.

Can =/= will.

I agree with Ralf. While it's nice to have, Courser doesn't single handedly solve the burn matchup at all, you need something a lot more impactful. Besides, burn isn't a huge player these days anyway so it doesn't seem like a very good reason to keep Courser in.

[Echelon]

@Dissection: I was mostly making a silly jab at Bobmans. Ralf just happens to hate the card. We've had this discussion before, there's no need to do it again.

@Cherson: For me, it was opportunity cost. 3 mana is a lot. For that mana I can also get a GSZ'able CA engine on legs.

[Ralf]

Ralf just happens to hate the card. We've had this discussion before, there's no need to do it again.

No, I don't.

It has some merits with SDT that I will not deny.
Nevertheless, I'm usually quite reluctant to spend a GSZ for it, when I play it.

And I don't remember having that discussion with you.

Nevertheless, I talked here about Courser a long time ago.

[Echelon]

No, I don't.

It has some merits with SDT that I will not deny.
Nevertheless, I'm usually quite reluctant to spend a GSZ for it, when I play it.

And I don't remember having that discussion with you.

Nevertheless, I talked here about Courser a long time ago.

It was quite some time ago . Or it was with someone else. Anyways, who cares.

[Whitefaces]

Anyways, who cares.

People that play the deck, I guess.

I tried Courser in multiple Nic Fit builds when it was released and it always underperformed, even with Library or SDT. In theory it's a nice card, but in practice all the things it does are too marginal for the format. Now that Tracker has joined the party it's even less needed.

[truthfulcake]

Teeg is at its best vs Storm combo. It also works against SneakShow, Aluren, Natural Order, Belcher, MonoRedSneak, Tezzeret.
Teeg also blocks Jace, Terminus, Entreat and Nahiri, but Miracles doesn't have to hard time to remove Teeg.
I wouldn't bother to board Teeg vs FoW and Batterskull is dropped thru Teeg with SFM obviously. On top of that, the question is, will Teeg shut your own GSZ or Walker down. Against storm or other combo thats fine, but against fair decks it is not.

Is it worth keeping in the Eidolon Cycle in the board in addition to Teeg then? I've currently trimmed down the Draw and Spell ones. My sideboard feels a little all over the joint at the moment, still throwing things in to see what sticks.

@truthfulcake: What everybody else said. Besides, Stoneblade is a pretty good MU, why clip your own wings by disabling GSZ?

True enough, I wasn't sure what to bring in against Stoneblade (Besides Golgari Charm and Pithing Needle).

I'm currently tweaking my wincons and CA engines at the moment- currently on Sun Titan (Which may become a Grave Titan when I actually get one), Sigarda, two Rhinos, Anafenza, Thragtusk, a SFM and a Batterskull and a Baneslayer for wincons (Baneslayer is more a personal favorite at this stage though). CA engines are flip nissa (Who has been amazing) and Tireless Tracker (Which does pretty well, as expected).

[Brael]

People that play the deck, I guess.

I tried Courser in multiple Nic Fit builds when it was released and it always underperformed, even with Library or SDT. In theory it's a nice card, but in practice all the things it does are too marginal for the format. Now that Tracker has joined the party it's even less needed.

There's some good Dryad Arbor/Courser tricks out there, but I don't like that in my build it's not a human. I'm considering replacing Courser with Knight of the Reliquary, it has a good interaction with Top although not as strong, it helps solve the problem of having large bodies, it's strong on it's own with the ability to tutor lands like Volrath's, and it has a great interaction with Tracker.

The argument against this basically comes down to lifegain, I don't have much in my build and Courser goes a long way towards helping stabilize a drawn out game.

[sdematt]

Im running 3 Top, 1 Tracker, 2 Truths, 2 Sylvan
Love it.

[Ralf]

As some of you asked, I reworked my old SFM list and here it is:


SFM Fist by Ralf

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Swords To Plowshares

3 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Sylvan Library

1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard

2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Choke

And a few comments:
1) I've been really impressed by Nissa. She is gonna stick for a while in my Nic Fit builds. Not to mention potential collateral damages with Lingering Souls...
2) LotV is back. Lingering souls is at Junk what punishing fire is at Jund. It breaks her symmetry. Period
3) DRS > Vet, here. Haters gonna hate it.
4) No Pernicious Deed, obviously obvious with such a "ramp" setup.
5) Dryad is there. GSZ @ 0 and turn every fetch into a potential equipment carrier all day / every day.
6) I'll keep testing with Blessed Alliance. The card has been very good in testing even if it costs 1 more mana compared to STP/PTE. The modal clause really is making up for it.
7) Full SFM package for immediate pressure and virtual CA. Turn "on" every late squirrel into a must answer.

The deck is still "raw", the CMC-3 slot feels sometimes a bit clogged but this is the price to pay for maximum velocity (T1 DRS into T2 CMC 3 is definitely broken).

Enjoy.

[Brael]

As some of you asked, I reworked my old SFM list and here it is:

I like the build, have you found yourself running out of action in the mid to late game? That's one of the issues I've seen with a higher velocity is that you need a way to keep fuel in your hand, otherwise you peter out after a few turns. LotV seems to me like she would only make this problem worse.

Also, what's your usual Library play? Have you considered Dark Confidant instead? It's still extra cards but more along the lines of 1-2 life per turn rather than 4 and it can hit the opponent.

[Ralf]

I like the build, have you found yourself running out of action in the mid to late game? That's one of the issues I've seen with a higher velocity is that you need a way to keep fuel in your hand, otherwise you peter out after a few turns. LotV seems to me like she would only make this problem worse.

Also, what's your usual Library play? Have you considered Dark Confidant instead? It's still extra cards but more along the lines of 1-2 life per turn rather than 4 and it can hit the opponent.

1) Lingering Souls & Sylvan library are covering up Liliana's symmetry. The goal, here, is to put you and your opponent into a top deck war where you should definitely dig from your hole faster than him. Courser has also proven to be very interesting in such wars. I'm still assessing whether we should be playing some SDT or not. I do like very much the synergy between SDT & Liliana. But, I also like naming SDT with pithing needle after board against Miracle.

2) Main Deck, I still prefer Library to Dark Confidant. It is harder to remove and you definitely control the way you lose life. Nevertheless, I have aforementioned, a week ago, the possibility to try an eva green/pikula kind of sideboard plan. The idea would obviously be to play between 3 to 4 Dark Confidant, 1 or 2 beater (Goyf / you name it), 5 to 6 discards spells (3 TS 2 Tourach) and go "yolo" against combo and slower control decks.
Unfortunately, this would have a "cost" because you would cover the rest of Legacy's world with only 3 to 5 cards left in your sideboard.

To sum it up, the idea exists but needs testing.

Again, the proposed list is far from being fully fine tuned (20 or 21 lands is the real deal, here not counting DA), it was more of an update from my older SFM list.
Nevertheless, the grind is very real and Liliana, singlehandely, makes our G1 against control and combo winnable.

This build is tailor made for big tournaments because:
- you will have free wins (for your sanity) because a T2 SFM into BSK is unanswered.
- combo decks are winnable G1 on the back of Liliana. It is even better post side.

As for the fun factor: Who has never won a game with a BSK + SOFI Sigarda ? That feeling is great...

[Brael]

2) Main Deck, I still prefer Library to Dark Confidant. It is harder to remove and you definitely control the way you lose life.

It's actually a positive rather than a negative that Bob can be removed more easily. Any removal spell aimed at Bob is a removal spell not aimed at your threats. Plus, he's pretty easy to stick if you have more threats than the opponent has answers.

The idea would obviously be to play between 3 to 4 Dark Confidant, 1 or 2 beater (Goyf / you name it), 5 to 6 discards spells (3 TS 2 Tourach) and go "yolo" against combo and slower control decks.

That's not really all that different from what I'm doing now. It works well and doesn't actually take as many SB slots as you would think.

[Echelon]

People that play the deck, I guess.

I tried Courser in multiple Nic Fit builds when it was released and it always underperformed, even with Library or SDT. In theory it's a nice card, but in practice all the things it does are too marginal for the format. Now that Tracker has joined the party it's even less needed.

The "who cares" had nothing to do with your post, but that's fine. I guess we're doing this then. Alrighty.

I like that it smooths out my draws, clearing away topdeck lands so I'm more likely to draw into gas w/ my next drawstep, @0 extra expense. It also bogs down the field nicely vs. little stuff that'd normally be pecking away at our life total. 4 toughness is a lot for 3 mana.

@matt: That's an impressive CA suite. I'm thinking about getting 2 Sylvans myself. That'd put me @3 Tops, 2 Sylvan, 1 Tracker & 1 Courser. I'm going to have a hell of a time finding what to cut though. Most likely the top end CMC flex slot and mayhaps Scavenging Ooze (although I love that card to death).

[Ganfar]

Im running 3 Top, 1 Tracker, 2 Truths, 2 Sylvan
Love it.

Sometimes when I have played nic-fit, I don't feel I got any CD.

Running 2 Truths and 2 Sylvan in main can be good. Can I see your decklist please?

[Echelon]

matt's list is on page 361.

[sdematt]

Ill post an updated list tomorrow. Minor changes to squeeze the third Top back in.

[Whitefaces]

I'm really not a fan of double Sylvan Library, you want to diversify your card advantage/filtering if the ones chosen get worse in multiples. At Least SDT can save itself from a Deed, double Library and double Deed together is just asking for trouble.

[Echelon]

What are you a fan of?

Surprise us w/ a list. Preferably Junk Fit.

[Brael]

I'm really not a fan of double Sylvan Library, you want to diversify your card advantage/filtering if the ones chosen get worse in multiples. At Least SDT can save itself from a Deed, double Library and double Deed together is just asking for trouble.

It doesn't really matter if Library gets blown up off a Deed. Ideally you'll have already gotten your cards out of it. You can only reasonably take up to 4 cards off Library, and depending on the pressure you're facing, even less than that. After that it's just rearranging them which Top does too. Library is a great card to diversify your CA. It actually helps the CA plan to have low numbers of a large variety of different ways to generate CA because it's harder to shut down and sometimes the different CA mechanisms work together.

--------------------------------------------
Edit: Have a weekly league match coming up against W/B Pox, there's nothing too strange in it other than 4x Chains of Mephilstoles. Does anyone have some tips? I'm pretty confident in the match between my CA, recursion, and GY hate, but I don't want to make a stupid mistake since it's something I've never played against before using Nic Fit.

My big question comes down to Therapy. What should I call? I can see merit depending on the list and my hand to naming Smallpox or Hymn. Thoughts on naming Sinkhole? Any tips against Chains?

[truthfulcake]

My big question comes down to Therapy. What should I call? I can see merit depending on the list and my hand to naming Smallpox or Hymn. Thoughts on naming Sinkhole?

Name Hymn first I think. Pox is a 2-for-1 in your favor (they play the card, then discard another card), and the deck doesn't have many ways of generating card advantage. Hymn puts them ahead on cards, Pox puts them back on cards.

I'm not sure how good Sinkhole is against nic fit, since the deck ends up with a lot of lands quickly, which kinda mitigates that.