Miracle Control

[kravkenov]

About Show and Tell

There's a trick that you can use to actually beat that "nut draw": Boseiju into Show and Tell, you put in Snapcaster or Clique, to create a trigger that the opponent cannot respond to at sorcery speed, then blast or wear//tear the Omni in response to your own trigger. It's definitely beatable!

This trick save me just tonight, but damn it's hard to work, my opponent was still able to brainstorm into cunning wish to find (but fail) a solution (thx to a second red blast) . And Snapcaster just do the job alone ;)

[Poron]

About Show and Tell


This trick save me just tonight, but damn it's hard to work, my opponent was still able to brainstorm into ponder into preordain to find (but fail) a counterspell. And Snapcaster just do the job alone ;)

how can he do that if he is out of Sorceries while Snap/Clique trigger is on the stack?

Against Miracle, anyway the wise Omnitell player will just Probe/Seize before SnT anyway.. it's just free or for B

Omnitell is a bad matchup imho, as well as Eldrazi

We should find a way to take Boseiju out of them Rishadan Port would be a solution, but it's out of question. Is there a "tap enchanted land forever" card around?

EDIT. yes there is:

Convincing Mirage
Lingering Mirage
Imprisoned by the Moon
Phantasmal Terrain
Sea's Claim
Spreading Seas (very fine baby that also cantrips)

Of all these I would say Spreading Seas but it's just way too narrow. It also affects Eldrazi if you place it on Eye of Ugin or Cloudpost, but still, too narrow.

[kravkenov]

I written to speedily. It was Brainstorm and two of the wish that tutor for instant or sorcery in sideboard.
First post edited ;)

[Poron]

we still need Containment Priest anyway

With the trigger trick we can prevent him from dropping Emrakul on the spot and then destroy the Omniscience with Wear, Disenchant and Pyroblast, but we still need something that prevents him from SnT into direct Emrakul because.. it's just a killer.

[CutthroatCasual]

Karakas helps against SnT fatty.

[jmonk]

hey guys im getting back into legacy after a long hiatus. does anyone know of a good primer for the deck. I remember there was a community premier that was being made. what happened to that? any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance

[prepare4robots]

Using sideboard slots to trade 1 for 1 is normally a waste. In the case of Wear/Tear, a Pithing Needle is worth way more than a card, but unless you're worried about something like Gaddock Teeg I wouldn't put Path or Lightning Bolt in my sideboard.

Normally I agree with this, but infect is a deck with only 12 threats we care about. If Wear//Tear is in your sideboard, I'd definitely bring it in for the match up.

[Quasim0ff]

Karakas helps against SnT fatty.

Karakas does not help against Omniscience. Karakas doesn't help against Sneak Attack.

We don't NEED Containment priest, and it doesn't leave a trigger. If you have Priest, and they have omniscience, you are beat.
Rishidan port is just garbage. If you wan't that effect, you play Tsabo's Web. *Or do it like the Japanese at GP Kyoto and play two wastelands.

[twndomn]

how can he do that if he is out of Sorceries while Snap/Clique trigger is on the stack?

Against Miracle, anyway the wise Omnitell player will just Probe/Seize before SnT anyway.. it's just free or for B

Omnitell is a bad matchup imho, as well as Eldrazi

We should find a way to take Boseiju out of them Rishadan Port would be a solution, but it's out of question. Is there a "tap enchanted land forever" card around?

Your MU analysis makes Zero sense. Zero. Lossett has defeated Omnitell plenty of times, I've done the same in my testing as well.

You don't fight Boseiju, and you don't fight Show and Tell, you just Don't. When they play Show and Tell off Boseiju, you put down Canonist. Once they put down Omni, you Red Blast/enchantment removal the Omni, it's done, the cunning wish route doesn't even work. When they ponder/brainstorm to try to setup Show and Tell + Omni, you do the same to setup your counter-combo.

If they Show and Tell and put down the 15/15 without Omni, you will still put down Canonist, then you can just Venser/Terminus the spaghetti monster, or just play Karakas later. I know most people don't like to run that land anymore, not me.

The only route we have trouble defending from Omnitell is Show and Tell and put Griselbrand into play. Some variants start doing that recently.

You have yourself to blame if you run zero Karakas and zero Canonist, then proceed to conclude that this MU is in Omni's favor. You built your deck to attribute to that, don't generalize it.

Last but not the least, some Show and Tell players even abandoned the combo approach all together facing Miracles, they just go for Mentor or YP win-con. Therefore you cannot SB-out all the board wipes.

[Poron]

possibly that's why.

I play 0 Canonist and 0 Karakas.

Canonist is useless against everything but this (also against storm combo we already have 4 Counterbalance and 3 Flusterstorm as well as 4 FoW)

So: Omnitell is a good matchup for legendary build? I can see that. It's just that.. I don't play it.

I find it too weak to Blasts

[Whitefaces]

Your MU analysis makes Zero sense. Zero. Lossett has defeated Omnitell plenty of times, I've done the same in my testing as well.

You don't fight Boseiju, and you don't fight Show and Tell, you just Don't. When they play Show and Tell off Boseiju, you put down Canonist. Once they put down Omni, you Red Blast/enchantment removal the Omni, it's done, the cunning wish route doesn't even work. When they ponder/brainstorm to try to setup Show and Tell + Omni, you do the same to setup your counter-combo.

If they Show and Tell and put down the 15/15 without Omni, you will still put down Canonist, then you can just Venser/Terminus the spaghetti monster, or just play Karakas later. I know most people don't like to run that land anymore, not me.

The only route we have trouble defending from Omnitell is Show and Tell and put Griselbrand into play. Some variants start doing that recently.

You have yourself to blame if you run zero Karakas and zero Canonist, then proceed to conclude that this MU is in Omni's favor. You built your deck to attribute to that, don't generalize it.

Last but not the least, some Show and Tell players even abandoned the combo approach all together facing Miracles, they just go for Mentor or YP win-con. Therefore you cannot SB-out all the board wipes.

He never said the matchup was unwinnable, congrats on winning some games, he said it's bad. It is bad, Boseiju is a big problem.

Since DTT got banned Omnitell has declined in play, for good reason. Canonist is hardly seeing any play in Miracle SBs anymore, which I agree with since this matchup doesn't happen enough for it to be necessary. If these were your arguments with DTT in the format I'd agree, but that's not the case.

Look at all the recent Miracles lists making top 8s / winning events, there are very, very few Karakas and Canonist. Sure, you play them, but you're in the minority.

[Poron]

if the Omnitell player starts the combo with a Trickbind in his hand the matchup is simply unwinnable (apart from fancy happening, like CB with 2 on top)

Boseiju, Snt --> Omni (Trickbind in hand in case a trigger appears), empty stack he gets priority, Emmy

If triggering permants are going to spawn they'll just add a piece to the combo.

What's the only problem they have?
Disruption, discards, and tempo.

We don't run discards and they have all the tempo in the world.

IMHO: It's a bad matchup. Luckily they get hated a lot by Infect, DnT, Eldrazi and Grixis.
That's why you never see one around

[mike1987]

Your MU analysis makes Zero sense. Zero. Lossett has defeated Omnitell plenty of times, I've done the same in my testing as well.

You don't fight Boseiju, and you don't fight Show and Tell, you just Don't. When they play Show and Tell off Boseiju, you put down Canonist. Once they put down Omni, you Red Blast/enchantment removal the Omni, it's done, the cunning wish route doesn't even work. When they ponder/brainstorm to try to setup Show and Tell + Omni, you do the same to setup your counter-combo.

If they Show and Tell and put down the 15/15 without Omni, you will still put down Canonist, then you can just Venser/Terminus the spaghetti monster, or just play Karakas later. I know most people don't like to run that land anymore, not me.

The only route we have trouble defending from Omnitell is Show and Tell and put Griselbrand into play. Some variants start doing that recently.

You have yourself to blame if you run zero Karakas and zero Canonist, then proceed to conclude that this MU is in Omni's favor. You built your deck to attribute to that, don't generalize it.

Last but not the least, some Show and Tell players even abandoned the combo approach all together facing Miracles, they just go for Mentor or YP win-con. Therefore you cannot SB-out all the board wipes.

Would you mind sharing your list?

[twndomn]

Would you mind sharing your list?

4 SDT
4 CB
3 Snapcaster mage
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
4 StP
1 Kozileik's return
2 Mentor
2 Jtms
1 Council's Judgement
1 EE
1 Entreat the angels
4 Ponder
4 Terminus

2 Arid mesa
4 Flooded strand
4 Island
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Scalding tarn
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic island

SB
1 RiP
1 Surgical
1 Canonist
1 FoW
2 Flusterstorm
1 REB
2 Pyroblast
2 Clique
2 Wear//Tear
1 From the Ashes
1 Pyroclasm

It's a typical list, not all that special. Moved a FoW to SB and a K-Return to MD because my LGS is messed-up.

[Noctalor]

we still need Containment Priest anyway

With the trigger trick we can prevent him from dropping Emrakul on the spot and then destroy the Omniscience with Wear, Disenchant and Pyroblast, but we still need something that prevents him from SnT into direct Emrakul because.. it's just a killer.

Containment Priest is just a bad card against Omnitell.

Once you play it you are much more likely to lose because you can't show a snapcaster/clique anymore.
You are supposed to keep some copies of terminus/jace to fight against show emrakul.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Can't you just play Seal of Cleansing instead of Containment Priests? Isn't that still pretty strong? Seems pretty good against Vial, Chalice, doesn't turn on Displacer. It's not good against some things Priest is, but helps other matchups. Has anyone tested it? Is o-ring better? Or unnecessary altogether?

[Poron]

Seal of Cleansing is very good but just there and in the mirror (and it requires set up in both cases).

Contaniment Priest shuts down:

- Shardless Sultai cascade creatures (which is always super sweet)
- Reanimator
- Dredge
- SneakShow
- Ather Vial decks
- GSZ/Natural Order decks like Maverick and Elves

it's just a matter of present metagame.

apart from Counterbalance and Omniscience how do you use it?

For Sylvan Library, Needle and Null Rod Disenchant/Tear is just better

[Minniehajj]

Seal of Cleansing is very good but just there and in the mirror (and it requires set up in both cases).

Contaniment Priest shuts down:

- Shardless Sultai cascade creatures (which is always super sweet)
- Reanimator
- Dredge
- SneakShow
- Ather Vial decks
- GSZ/Natural Order decks like Maverick and Elves

it's just a matter of present metagame.

apart from Counterbalance and Omniscience how do you use it?

For Sylvan Library, Needle and Null Rod Disenchant/Tear is just better

Containment Priest doesn't shut down cascade creatures at all...

[Whitefaces]

Hah, yeah. Containment Priest does do a pretty neat Ashcoat Bear impression though

Another reason not to run Seal is the anti-synergy with Snapcaster Mage.

[Poron]

I have been playiing it bad all this time then haha

good to know thanks