[Deck] Death and Taxes

[RobNC]

Longtime lurker on here. I have been on the 3 caverns build since cutting the green splash (teeg, choke, pridemage, library) for the new conspiracy goodies. Besides the burn match up getting worse, I cannot see going back. Has anyone else tried 3 caverns?

I am surprised to see many builds still only running 1.

I've run 3 when I did not run Avenger, as my only non-Humans that required white mana were Flickerwisp and SFM. Now that I have Avenger back in I'm down to 2 Cavern. I would not want to run less than 2, and they're usually but not always set on Human. Flickerwisp can always reset one in a pinch.

3 does occasionally make it trickier to cast STP/PTE, though.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

(In case it wasn't clear based on the earlier conversation, I'm genuinely intrigued by your inclusion of Mox Diamond. Please keep us updated with how they perform over time.)

Thanks, I will. I just didn't want the thread discussion to become "diamond vs. Chrome" when until there are solid results from either side, it's a bit of a misnomer.

My early background in legacy was Angelstax, and I feel comfortable with 2 diamond with 23 lands. I'm less comfortable pitching threats (lessons learned in Storm). That's a main reason for me to choose the way I did.

[pbrod88]

To be honest I'm a little surprised you're up to 3. I could maybe see that in a THC-heavy build (that eschews Avengers). Otherwise, with around 6 non-human cards in the maindeck (not to mention Gideons, Cataclysms, Judgments, etc. from the side), I'm also surprised that 3 has never bitten you.

I'm considering 2-3 Avengers in my maindeck (and 0 THCs) and have been debating 1 or 2 Caverns. Medea and others do fine on 0.

That's fair. I have only been running 2 avengers and have not been using judgements or gideons in the side in place of tutor-able answers. (mangara, Leonin Relic-Warder, etc). If I was running that kind of sideboard, 3 would be a bit much I guess. I haven't been a fan of the many ww non-creature sideboard cards because thalia usually makes them cost 4-5 and it seems easier to just grab a creature with recruiter.

I am sure I am not getting the amount of games in that alot of you are. I may go on a bad streak but until then cavern on!

[koten]

What do you guys think of the DnT lists from this recent 173 player event?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21536

DnT placed 9th and 10th and neither lists ran any Recruiters of the Guard. The 10th place list did have a couple of Sanctum Prelates.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I think they should invest in some Recruiters...

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[Curby]

Yeah, they look like older designs. It'd be interesting to hear the reasons behind their card choices. Availability? Familiarity? Metagaming?

I dig the Phyrexian Devourer tech though.

[Tylert]

Yeah, they look like older designs. It'd be interesting to hear the reasons behind their card choices. Availability? Familiarity? Metagaming?

I dig the Phyrexian Devourer tech though.

How do you get this thing in play? 6cmc.

[H]

How do you get this thing in play? 6cmc.

It's a joke, they obviously mistyped it as Phyrexian Devourer instead of Revoker.

[NeckBird]

Because MTGTop8 and TCDecks are behind on their data, I decided to combine the two as well as add Hareruya events not yet recorded (only GPT's and five rounders). Also, certain archetypes are combined like Reanimator (BR and UB make up the 12 decks). With these numbers in mind, what should we be preparing for at SCG Baltimore? I think people are preparing for an influx of Death & Taxes anyway so what should we be preparing for? Elves, Infect, Jund, and Maverick have seen increased amounts of play. Perhaps extra Path to Exile's in the sideboard will help or playing at least one Mirran Crusader in the 75 is a must now.

1. Miracles 63
2. Death & Taxes 56
3. Grixis Delver 37
4. Eldrazi 30
5. Elves 25
6. Infect 23
7. BUG Control 19
8. Storm 17
9. UR Delver 17
10. Sneak & Show 14
11. Jund 12
12. Maverick 12
13. Omni-Tell 12
14. Reanimator 12
15. Burn 11
16. Dredge 11
17. Aggro Loam 9
18. Aluren 9
19. Bant Blade 9
20. BUG Delver 9
21. Hexmage 9
22. Lands 8
23. RUG Delver 8
24. Deathblade 7
25. Merfolk 6
26. Belcher 5
27. Painter 5
28. UWx Blade 5
29. Metalworker 4
30. Nic Fit 4
31. 12 Post 4
32. Tin Fins 3
33. Affinity 2
34. Cephalid Breakfast2
35. Dragon Stompy 2
36. Goblins 2
37. Grixis Control 2
38. Landstill 2
39. Red Sneak 2
40. Slivers 2
41. Stax MUD 2
42. Patriot Delver 2
43. Aetherflux Mentor1
44. Deadguy Ale 1
45. Death’s Shadow 1
46. Domain 1
47. Doomsday 1
48. Food Chain 1
49. High Tide 1
50. Jund Flow 1
51. Pox 1
52. Punishing BUG 1
53. RUG Ascension 1
54. UR Control 1
55. 4C Control 1
56. 4C Delver 1
507 decks

[Curby]

so what should we be preparing for?

In a word, hate.

If any of you have been to large recent events, have you seen more Massacres and Pyroclasms? If not, I think you're about to.

[BearsandSquires]

At eternal weekend I played against kozileks return from miracles and omni, but didn't see massacre or pyroclasm throughout the tournament

[AsmodeusDM]

I still think in their heart of hearts its hard for people to dedicate too much sideboard hate against us because we are "just" D&T and we are playing a fair game, no busted combos.. and it's not like we even have brainstorm or Force of Will :D

[Curby]

You mean we're just white weenie. Aggro. You know, like Zoo.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'm sure that not a single reasonable and reasonably intelligent informed person really thinks like this; at least not since the first week after Recruiter was legal. I'm pretty sure that tonight at my LGS I will face some hate. I 3-0'ed last week and 2-1'ed the week before, and there are two other people here that play it as well that occasionally play.

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[Curby]

Yeah I was joking. It was me that mentioned preparing for hate above. However, earlier on in D&T's history it was fun to hear commentators label the deck "aggro."

[Stevestamopz]

My meta is very DnT heavy. I once played a game where my opponent had 2 Dread of Nights, 2 Null Rods and 2 Golgari Charms in his sideboard for me. Feelsbadman.

[Curby]

@Steve Given the heavy presence of D&T, have you seen any bigger sweepers like Massacre, Pyroclasm, and Toxic Deluge, or do people still concentrate on the -1 effects?

[Stevestamopz]

@Steve Given the heavy presence of D&T, have you seen any bigger sweepers like Massacre, Pyroclasm, and Toxic Deluge, or do people still concentrate on the -1 effects?

Well the combo decks that already played them continued to do so (our local Sneak and Show player played a maindeck pyroclasm once) but the numbers have increased. Shardless players play more anti DnT stuff (as per the example above) and the ANT players ususually have 2-3 Dread of Nights in their sb as well as other removal like Disfigure.

To answer your question directly, a mix of both. I know in my Goblins and 4c Delver sideboards I have concentrated cards for the matchup (sulfur elemental, jitte, grudge, sudden demise etc)

[Curby]

Thanks! It's a good thing if not everyone is flocking to bear-killers.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Right, but we should begin to assess how to counter when the inevitable shift does happen. Its only a matter of time, and when the other shoe drops, we'll need to have a plan. So far the thing I like best is Gideon, but I haven't picked any up yet, and even when I do, I'm unsure of what to drop from my board.

Last night I beat Merfolk (2-1) and a bad mono-black Reanimator-style jank (2-0). I lost to Infect (1-2). Again. I'll test against it more. Any tips in the matchup? My list is posted very recently so I won't list it again, but even with 8 total removal spells in the 75, flying/unblockable threats are enough to get there a little at a time. Maybe I'm making mistakes, anyone else have a hard time? It's just so fast on it's fast draws.

I guess my biggest thing is, what does Prelate name? Is Prelate better than Thalia 2.0 in the match, and do you play one or the other or both? Do you name 1? Do you name 3 for Invigorate? I've been naming 1, and I think it's probably correct, but maybe the second one is on 3. The problem with this is again, even when you do this, evasion infect gets there without the pump.