[Primer] Elves!

[Deisss]

Hello, this is Jan. Usually I just read in this forum and then doing what ever I was doing anyway. But if there are questions about my decissions and my list I would be happy to answer that. For the people who ask: "Why did you fetch for a bayou in quarterfinal?" - that was a misplay.

I do play Gaddock Teeg even through there is no white source (except 4 DS, 2 Birchlore and if it´s necessary 2 Cavern). First: I think third Duelland is bad. Doesn´t matter if it´s a Savannah for gaddock, a tropical for flusterstorm or a Taiga for Blood Moon. I tried it and I am not convinced. But the Gaddock is in the SB because it´s very good against storm and Belcher. It´s still good vs Miracles but how you see in the coverage I never targeted it with my GSZ. On paper: It makes no sense to me to play 4 GSZ, 3 NO and Gaddock in the same deck. But keep in mind: If it´s in your library you have access to it. If it´s in your hand you have the option. play it and grind or hold it. Usually it get´s the sword anyway.

NO after Sideboarding. I boarded: +4 Abrupt Decay, +1 Garruk, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Ooze. -4 Glimpse of Nature, -2 Heritage Druid, -1 Gaeas Cradle.

My plan was to not overextend while playing NO with 2-3 Creatures in play. It resolves through the Counterbalance mostly (Glimpse doesn´t). That fact is in my opinion the answer to your question.

I usually win if I get Visonary and Symbiote online and the 2 Cavern of Souls really help holding on this plan. Then saving the the Decays for the Mentors. Against CB just if there is no other way.

mhmmm not sure If i could help.

Another thing: If you looking for Decklists at TC Decks and looking for my name: Don´t take the lists from Ollies Spielecenter. I just test there =)

If I may, you were by far the best player I've found during the tournament (I play you at 4-0 with UW Omnitell).

I can add that gaddock give him the game against me (my omnitell build include terminus for fast stompy removal). If he wouldn't have tutor it, it would have take terminus then replenish (Omniscience in the GY) and loose for sure.

So gaddock is versatile for sure :D

[mariobross]

Hi Jayaballard182, your way of side-in/out is really particular, can you make a mini-guides for side-in/out to see how is your approaches in the various metchup?

I think this would really be very interesting for the whole community ...

thanks in advance for your time!!!

[lowpass]

abombdiggity, the Wasteland in your sb is interesting. What did you think of it? Do you think, e.g., Winter Orb would be similarly effective, or is the actual destruction of a land too advantageous? (I can see Wasteland + Surgical Extraction being really great, but they're both 1-ofs in your build.)

[abombdiggity]

abombdiggity, the Wasteland in your sb is interesting. What did you think of it? Do you think, e.g., Winter Orb would be similarly effective, or is the actual destruction of a land too advantageous? (I can see Wasteland + Surgical Extraction being really great, but they're both 1-ofs in your build.)

The actual destruction of the land, as well as the tutorability with Crop Rotation was what really brought me to wasteland. It serves the role of protection for your lands- knocking out opponent's wastelands/ports, while also allowing you a way out from Tabernacle/Glacial Chasm/Grove+Punishing Fire. It's also a time walk against 12 post/mud/etc- and you're absolutely right; that one time I wasted a dark depths and hit it with a surgical against BG depths was a magical Christmas fantasy I can only hope to achieve again.

Crop Rotation itself is probably the most important part of the package. In addition to the added flexibility given to the sideboard (running essentially 3 Karakas against sneak and show is a nice feeling), it acts as a 5th Cradle while on a Glimpse chain- one that's available even after you've already used your turn's available land drops to get started. It becomes a little bit easier to get turn 2/3 kills when racing other combo decks and can often give you the mana to dig deeper into your deck for disruption.

[Jayaballard182]

Hi Jayaballard182, your way of side-in/out is really particular, can you make a mini-guides for side-in/out to see how is your approaches in the various metchup?

I think this would really be very interesting for the whole community ...

thanks in advance for your time!!!

I will do that. But it will be a short script how I sideboard. Not how someone should do it.

If anyone is interested in reading a german review about my view of the tournament: here we go.

http://janohneeis.wixsite.com/elves/eternal-weekend-bom

[catmint]

As I wrote in another post I came back after a while. The current builds and discussions help a lot to get back in the game. :)

Has anyone had experience with Realm Razer as a side slot?
Not just vs. lands obviously - but other matchups, situations come to mind where GSZ/NO for him can be much better than Ruric. (I would not cut Ruric of course just comparing because I also used him plenty as GSZ for 6 target).

For grindy matchups post sweeper we could get ahead quickly by sandbagging 1-2 lands no? GSZ for 6 can be achieved pretty easily without overextending.

Also what's the story on shaman of the pack as a SB slot in a regular elves build? The Glimpse win vs. Ensnaring Bridge or any other cases?

[Animal]

Also what's the story on shaman of the pack as a SB slot in a regular elves build? The Glimpse win vs. Ensnaring Bridge or any other cases?

Glimpse win without going into combat (Maze of Ith, Ensnaring Bridge, Ghostly Prison, summoning sickness). Also getting last damage in with it (in maybe addition to bounce with Wirewood Symbiote) for example, when opponent has Batterskull as a blocker, or you are having a grindier matchup. I feel like it is more of a "transition into chaos elves" card than a specific sideboard hate card.

[Julian23]

You probably already saw it on Twitter, but for everyone else: I've been running Jan's list from Eternal Weekend a lot lately and it has been nothing short of amazing for me on MTGO. Here's the list and what I faced:

League#1:
R1: Grixis Delver, 2-0
R2: Infect, 2-1
R3: Infect, 2-0
R4: BUG Delver, 2-1
R5: Shardless, 2-0

League#2:
R1: Jund, 2-1
R2: Aluren, 2-0
R3: Moggcatcher Stompy, 2-0
R4: UR Delver, 2-0
R5: HexDepths, 2-0

League#3:
R1: 12 Post MUD, 2-0
R2: 12 Post MUD, 2-0
R3: Elves, 2-1
R4: Grixis Delver, 2-0
R5: OmniSneak, 2-0

League#4:
R1: Eldrazi, 2-0
R2: Miracles, 2-0
R3: Miracles, 2-0
R4: Sneak Show, 2-1
R5: OmniSneak, 1-2

I also 4-0'ed our local GP Trial for Lousiville beating ANT, GWb Hatebears, Eldrazi and ANT. Deck feels really amazing.

What strikes me most is how great the matchup vs Grixis Delver has felt lately. I think I'm at something like 10-2 against them recently. Here's how I sideboard:
-3 NO, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Reclamation Sage
+3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Scavenging Ooze, +1 Garruk Relentless

It feels as if people are heavily cutting back on mass removal, allowing you to grind out Grixis pretty hard. One of the few ways to lose is if you get behind to much too quickly but that's just the nature of tempo decks anyways, so I'm fine with that.

For the Bazaar of Moxen Super Finals coming up this weekend, I'll still probably have to make a few changes. We ran some metagame predictions based on the qualified players and it's looking like this (excluding me):



So I'm feeling a bit uneasy about not having Elderscale Wurm in that list anymore. And of course the absurd lack of any Delver deck, which I'd be happy to face. HexDepths and Sneak Show also cause issues, and so do Lands and BR Reanimator. I've never been too much of a fan of Surgical Extraction vs Lands since it doesn't stop them from putting you helplessly behind early on with Mox Diamond starts, but a 3rd Extraction would surely help vs Reanimator. HexDepths on the other hand is incredibly hard to hate. We'll see what I come up with. Maybe I'm just gonna run Jan's list, but the lack of Delver, where the deck really shines, is definitely a big worry for me right now.

[cheerios]

@Julian

I'm interested in your approach against 12post MUD. What's your strategy here? How do you sideboard? I've been getting turn 3 Ugin'ed lately. Some of them also have the thespian's stage plus dark depths package. Thanks in advance!

cheers

[abombdiggity]

What strikes me most is how great the matchup vs Grixis Delver has felt lately. I think I'm at something like 10-2 against them recently. Here's how I sideboard:
-3 NO, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Reclamation Sage
+3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Scavenging Ooze, +1 Garruk Relentless

HexDepths and Sneak Show also cause issues, and so do Lands and BR Reanimator. I've never been too much of a fan of Surgical Extraction vs Lands since it doesn't stop them from putting you helplessly behind early on with Mox Diamond starts, but a 3rd Extraction would surely help vs Reanimator. HexDepths on the other hand is incredibly hard to hate. We'll see what I come up with. Maybe I'm just gonna run Jan's list, but the lack of Delver, where the deck really shines, is definitely a big worry for me right now.

Julian- I've been on an extremely similar list in paper recently (-1 jitte +1 WRP in the main) and have found that I usually want to keep Reclamation Sage in due to them bringing in Jitte/Grafdiggers cage and trying to clog up attacks with Baleful Strix. I find myself not boarding in the 3rd decay in that situation, just because although it doesn't hit creatures, it's much better than decay when you want to hit multiple targets.

Against hexdepths and sneak I've been retesting crop rotation (my online list is my paper list, but cutting the 2nd Cavern for a rotation, and my sb has a karakas/bog/wasteland and 2nd rotation, although wasteland isn't pulling it's weight) and bringing in Karakas for that matchup (bog helps with the uptick in reanimator, ANT, etc), and Depths combo has gotten a lot better with essentially 3 ways to disrupt the combo- if they as much as sniff a crop rotation, they're very likely to wait an extra turn for protection if we're holding up a green mana- even forcing them to waste a pithing needle on Karakas rather than on trying to stop our shenanigans.

[mariobross]

You probably already saw it on Twitter, but for everyone else: I've been running Jan's list from Eternal Weekend a lot lately and it has been nothing short of amazing for me on MTGO. Here's the list and what I faced:

League#1:
R1: Grixis Delver, 2-0
R2: Infect, 2-1
R3: Infect, 2-0
R4: BUG Delver, 2-1
R5: Shardless, 2-0

League#2:
R1: Jund, 2-1
R2: Aluren, 2-0
R3: Moggcatcher Stompy, 2-0
R4: UR Delver, 2-0
R5: HexDepths, 2-0

League#3:
R1: 12 Post MUD, 2-0
R2: 12 Post MUD, 2-0
R3: Elves, 2-1
R4: Grixis Delver, 2-0
R5: OmniSneak, 2-0

League#4:
R1: Eldrazi, 2-0
R2: Miracles, 2-0
R3: Miracles, 2-0
R4: Sneak Show, 2-1
R5: OmniSneak, 1-2

I also 4-0'ed our local GP Trial for Lousiville beating ANT, GWb Hatebears, Eldrazi and ANT. Deck feels really amazing.

What strikes me most is how great the matchup vs Grixis Delver has felt lately. I think I'm at something like 10-2 against them recently. Here's how I sideboard:
-3 NO, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Reclamation Sage
+3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Scavenging Ooze, +1 Garruk Relentless

It feels as if people are heavily cutting back on mass removal, allowing you to grind out Grixis pretty hard. One of the few ways to lose is if you get behind to much too quickly but that's just the nature of tempo decks anyways, so I'm fine with that.

For the Bazaar of Moxen Super Finals coming up this weekend, I'll still probably have to make a few changes. We ran some metagame predictions based on the qualified players and it's looking like this (excluding me):



So I'm feeling a bit uneasy about not having Elderscale Wurm in that list anymore. And of course the absurd lack of any Delver deck, which I'd be happy to face. HexDepths and Sneak Show also cause issues, and so do Lands and BR Reanimator. I've never been too much of a fan of Surgical Extraction vs Lands since it doesn't stop them from putting you helplessly behind early on with Mox Diamond starts, but a 3rd Extraction would surely help vs Reanimator. HexDepths on the other hand is incredibly hard to hate. We'll see what I come up with. Maybe I'm just gonna run Jan's list, but the lack of Delver, where the deck really shines, is definitely a big worry for me right now.

hi Julian,

from your reports I see that you win often against Miracle, what is your side plan against him?

thanks for your help

[jjkbb2005]

So like Julian I have also been running a list very similar to Jan's with a lot of success (though unlike Julian's I have Scavenging Ooze main and Jitte in the side). The past 5 leagues I have gone x2 5-0, and x2 4-1. Gaddock Teeg has been an allstar out of the sideboard and the lack of a white source in the main has almost never been an issue.

The other card I feel like that has potential is Leovold as the 61st card in the main. His ability to slow down decks like Delver and Miracles creates a faux lock and dramatically reduces the efficiency of YP+cantrips/Mentor x2 Top. With 4 DRS, 2 Birchlore, 2 Cavern, I can't imagine he wont be too difficult to cast and definitely warrants a spot in the main.

[lordofthepit]

You probably already saw it on Twitter, but for everyone else: I've been running Jan's list from Eternal Weekend a lot lately and it has been nothing short of amazing for me on MTGO. Here's the list and what I faced:

Nice run!

I noticed you didn't play against Eldrazi, which is awesome and I wish more leagues were like that. That being said, what's your sideboard plan given the absence of any Natiral Order targets like Progenitus or Elderscale Wurm that are solid even with low resources? As impressive as your results have been, I'm hesitant to play a deck unless I have a definite strategy against public enemy #1 of the format.

[cheerios]

hey Guys,

What's your strategy against Eldrazi postboard? Do you remove the glimpses and rely on NO? Or do you try to keep a mix postboard? I've been relying on NO for the past few weeeks, but I think it opens us to a blow out if they have a warping wail. Thanks in advance!

cheers

[Prdgychild]

Hunt master of the fells vs garruk relentless? Shardless just won with hunt master this weekend, thoughts.

[Prdgychild]

So like Julian I have also been running a list very similar to Jan's with a lot of success (though unlike Julian's I have Scavenging Ooze main and Jitte in the side). The past 5 leagues I have gone x2 5-0, and x2 4-1. Gaddock Teeg has been an allstar out of the sideboard and the lack of a white source in the main has almost never been an issue.

The other card I feel like that has potential is Leovold as the 61st card in the main. His ability to slow down decks like Delver and Miracles creates a faux lock and dramatically reduces the efficiency of YP+cantrips/Mentor x2 Top. With 4 DRS, 2 Birchlore, 2 Cavern, I can't imagine he wont be too difficult to cast and definitely warrants a spot in the main.

There's got to be something to his price spiking. I've been playing him as a 61st card and have green sun for him a few times but he is never my sure thing/clear winner for target.........

[jjkbb2005]

There's got to be something to his price spiking. I've been playing him as a 61st card and have green sun for him a few times but he is never my sure thing/clear winner for target.........

He is largely just annoying to these type of decks and forces them deal with him in a timely manner. Both Miracles and Delver (delver especially) rely heavily on being able to win through card filtering and card advantage. Being able to turn off Brainstorms and Ponder throws a wrench in both of these decks, and forces them to either heavily rely on SDT, or in delver's case have an immediate answer. The only thing Im concerned with is how difficult he will be to cast. 2 Caverns, 4 DRS, and 2 Birchlore should hopefully be sufficient enough to not overly rely on him as a GSZ tutor.

[mariobross]

Hi guys,

with Jan's list from Eternal Weekend, which is your side plan against shardless, Dethblade and infect?

thank you all

[Prdgychild]

He is largely just annoying to these type of decks and forces them deal with him in a timely manner. Both Miracles and Delver (delver especially) rely heavily on being able to win through card filtering and card advantage. Being able to turn off Brainstorms and Ponder throws a wrench in both of these decks, and forces them to either heavily rely on SDT, or in delver's case have an immediate answer. The only thing Im concerned with is how difficult he will be to cast. 2 Caverns, 4 DRS, and 2 Birchlore should hopefully be sufficient enough to not overly rely on him as a GSZ tutor.

Did everyone see chaos elves surpass three other elves decks at scg Columbus? I'm thinking Leo has found a home. Time to invest in a tropisland

[Curby]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=109536

Some unconventional choices there. Dwynen, Nissa, etc.